Foggy fuel

Marin wrote;
"So this leads to a question regarding Eric's situation. If each tank has its own fill cap, is it possible that the one with the cloudy fuel has a cap leak or bad seal or something that allowed rainwater to seep into the tank over all this time?"
Indeed it is. There is an undesirable situation that puddes water right over the fuel fill ports. And it's worse on the port side. I very carefully grease the "O" rings and frequently replace same. I thought if I couldn't see water in my samples pumped out of the bottom corner I was home free re water. Not so?

Marin that was very perceptive even if I've kept water out.

Al FlyWright! You need to post your account of the time water leaked into one of your fuel tanks resulting in one engine's failure. I recall casually assisting you in Ayala Cove when you drained the fuel into containers and letting the fuel and water separate. Unfortunately, FlyWright isn't in the photo:

With stuff growing in a tank this might be the one time "polishing" might be an option.

If it removes the existing garden , And its water supply it should be worth the effort.

Practical Sailor suggests using different bug killers in series as one poison doesnt get them all.

The thought that a single O ring can water some fuel tanks is scary.

There are other better ways to fill a fuel tank than an at risk on deck fill.

Black in fuel can simply be old fuel that sat in the tank too long.

Diesel clumps (asphaltene ) as it attempts to return to tar.

1. Showing results for diesel fuel asphaltene
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   1. Asphaltene Conditioner - Cummins Filtration
      
      https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/html/en/.../fuel/.../asph_cond.html
      
      
      
      
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   <li class="g">Fleetguard Asphaltene Conditioner is proven to prevent plugging and extend fuel ... Prevents Filter Plugging; Stabilizes Diesel Fuel; Cleans Injectors; Improves ...
   
   
   <li class="g">Asphaltenes and Fuel Filter Plugging - LCBA Marketing Group
   
   www.lcbamarketing.com/asphaltenes_and_fuel_filter_plug.htm
   
   
   
   <li class="g">Asphaltenes and Fuel Filter Plugging. Asphaltenes in diesel fuels are becoming a much larger problem since the introduction of Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) ...
   
   
   <li class="g">Source Of Diesel Fuel Problems
   
   www.[B]diesel[/B]-fuels.com/bad-diesel-fuel.php
   
   
   
   <li class="g">This fuel is continuously re-circulated and exposed to extreme pressure and heat, which results in the agglomeration of asphaltenes, the high carbon content, ...
   
   
   <li class="g">penray's total diesel fuel system cleaner fights asphaltenes ...
   
   penray.com/.../penrays-total-diesel-fuel-system-cleaner-fights-asphaltene...
   
   
   
   <li class="g">Fuel system contamination is a year-round problem for diesel-powered vehicles, especially in commercial vehicles where down time can be expensive and can ...
   
   
   <li class="g">Well-Worth Products, Inc.: Articles - Black Fuel Filters ...
   
   www.wellworthproducts.com/articles/blackfilters.asp
   
   
   
   Asphaltene Production in ULSD Fuels ... Diesel engines recirculate fuel to lubricate and cool the fuel system and engine components, In the past fairly large ...
   
   
   

I think we are almost all saying the same things in different ways. Let me sum up as I understand it:

Black stuff = dead bio stuff (if you put a biocide in tank it will do this. which is why they tell you not to do so much)

Apple juice = water treatment was added for diesel, which emulsifies the water, allowing your engine to burn it. Pretty much the same as the water dryer agents we use in our cars.

Water in Suspension = will settle out and as being heavier will sink to the bottom. Once this happens your fuel will probably not be clear, as there is still the emulsifier (which many times is even added by the distributer of the fuel)

Water in suspension is the most dangerous, as if the boat is underway, it will pick up water and what isn't removed my the fuel filters will get to the injectors and score them, since there is no lubrication.

Eric
I've following along trying to learn as much as I can - have little experience or direct knowledge to contribute.

I did read through FF's references re: Alsphaltine which raised a question that I don't recall being addressed before...

Does the cloudy tank relate at all to your fuel return location?
The references indicate that repeated Hi Pressure / Temps can contribute to Asphaltine production and wondered if that was the case and your return was to the cloudy tank... could there be a connection?

Since all my diesel purchases for the boat are dyed red, was wondering the source of the OP's fuel, inland based, heating fuel company?

Baccus'
My fuel "manifold" plumbing returns the fuel to the tank that it came from. Otherwise I could flood my decks w fuel.

Marlinmike,
100% from marine services (dock or float) directly into the boat tanks.

Wxx3 wrote;
"Apple juice = water treatment was added for diesel, which emulsifies the water, allowing your engine to burn it. Pretty much the same as the water dryer agents we use in our cars." ......
I wondered about that. In away that was the whole reason for my thread. Wondering if people in-the -know just burn it in their engines and consider it harmless. I'm pretty focused on pumping it out now.

FF,
Yup ... despite how great "O" rings work having water on the decks over my fuel fills is still disturbing to me. Don't see any reasonable fix though. The idiots that installed my new fuel tanks didn't get it right .. the position of the inlet on top of the tank and the deck fitting. So I have a dogleg in the fill pipe. And the idiots that designed the boat made the deck sloping fwd so water puddles just in front of the steps where the fuel fillers are. I should fix the dogleg but living w it always seems easier than fixing. Too many other things to fix/do.

Eric-- A friend who is a specialist in the marine propulsion and generator systems field and has been working internationally in the super-yacht industry for many years now commented on your post in an e-mail yesterday:

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"It could also be that his aluminum tanks were made with the wrong alloy and are oxidizing. Since aluminum oxide is nearly as hard as diamond it can cause serious damage to a diesel's fuel pump and injectors.

If there is enough water to detect with a water paste it will settle out in a clear glass container left to sit someplace warm for a while. Water pastes are used to find the interface and determine the depth of free water in a tank bottom. It takes a lot of suspended water to show on a paste and even then it will only show as very small spots.

If the cloudy fuel sits as described above for a while and a clear layer forms at the top, it has suspended water or dissolved water. If the water is saline the fuel should be dumped. If it is fresh water then let it settle, push it through a water absorbing filter element or dump it."
-----------------

Eric, how big is the tank? Why not take your boat out and burn off all the fuel in that tank and refill it with fresh fuel? I imagine your mechanical system has enough filtering capability to protect your engine.

Filling the tanks dilutes the contaminants and it will take forever to get rid of it. Just run on low fuel level to cycle the fuel and only add enough for the next trip. Change the filters as needed. Don't add anything. Chemicals rarely fix problems just burn and filter it.

manyboats said:

meridian,
We must have different problems .. mine has a color mostly like farmer type apple juice. Amber. Nothing like black. I'm fine w a thread highjack to sort out Terry's black plague. I yeild the floor .. or tank .. or whatever.

Click to expand...

I filled up a gallon jug at the local filling station (for cars) and the fuel was that exact color... Not the reddish typical of Marine fuel..

On the Black, check out Asphaltines... Documented in this thread:

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s32/funky-fuel-filters-19536.html

Take a sample and send it in to your local lab.

Cat SOS will have a lab somewhere close.

Find out what you have and don't guess.

If it is water , emulsified from an additive, that water once into the injection system can cause rusting if allowed to sit.

Our fuel is relatively clear with a slight yellowish cast, not cloudy, unless DARNED cold which should not be your situation.

You likely have several hundreds of dollars of fuel. The injection system damage will cost a bomb to repair.

A test kit is ~ 25.00, a good investment, to KNOW what you are dealing with. Then you can make an informed decision. All you have now is guesswork.

Marin said:

--------------
"It could also be that his aluminum tanks were made with the wrong alloy and are oxidizing. Since aluminum oxide is nearly as hard as diamond it can cause serious damage to a diesel's fuel pump and injectors."

Click to expand...

Sorry folks, my friend meant this part of his e-mail as a joke. Shows what happens when someone totally ignorant on the subject (me) sees something that sounds plausible but isn't and passes it on.

However, ignorant or not, I believe the smart course of action would be to have the fuel checked by a lab or a process that can say for sure what the contaminants are if one has thoughts of running the boat on the stuff.

Or..... simply pump it out of the boat and replace it with fresh fuel.

The red dyed fuel means there is no road tax applied to it, over the road trucks are not allowed to run red dyed fuel, hence why at all marina's I've fueled up at had red dyed fuel.

Heron said:

I filled up a gallon jug at the local filling station (for cars) and the fuel was that exact color... Not the reddish typical of Marine fuel..

]

Click to expand...

The Euros use died fuel , as we do to seperiate house fuel from over the road diesel.

In the constant battle with the tax folks , cars and trucks are stopped and the tanks dipped to see the fuel color.

Some folks would block off the outside fuel fill at the tank and install an internal fill , leaving "proper fuel" in the fill pipe to be viewed with the dip.

The tax folks figured this out and now have a book that details how long the fill pipe AND tank are , so the dip rag can be inserted long enough.

The solution of course is to have the orig fill pipe extended full tank width , and sealed , so the measurement comes out correct.

MAD mag used to have Spy vs Spy , the battle still goes on world wide as folks refuse to be extorted by their locals with taxing powers.

I dont get it, its a 100 bucks worth of fuel. Maybe 30 gallons, get rid of it and stop worrying. Tell the local fishermen its free and they will come and get it. I would not risk a pump failure for $100.

kulas44 said:

I dont get it, its a 100 bucks worth of fuel. Maybe 30 gallons, get rid of it and stop worrying. Tell the local fishermen its free and they will come and get it. I would not risk a pump failure for $100.

Click to expand...

been wondering about all the debate too....other than identifying the source...I probably throw away that much in paint a year from leftovers I don't trust and in that case it could be removed for cheap...not like damaging engine parts.

kulas44 said:

I dont get it, its a 100 bucks worth of fuel. Maybe 30 gallons, get rid of it and stop worrying. Tell the local fishermen its free and they will come and get it. I would not risk a pump failure for $100.

Click to expand...

I don't think the fuel per se is the issue. He wants to know caused it and if there is some other maintenance action he needs to take. I would have same concern. The real issue is why did this occur.

Kulas44,
You've got my number right. That's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm think'in if I keep "BioBore" in the new fuel it won't happen again. I stopped using the BioBore a time or two and then let it sit for over two years.

Thank's everybody for the useful info and the interesting reading.