window replacement

chc said:

The Butyl tape is not suitable for all applications, but it is fairly easy to work with; both going on & coming off. I used it to bed some window framing that had to be replaced in our Californian 34 worked well.

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Hey, chc. Thinking about using butyl tape as you did. Glad to hear it's working for you. If you don't mind my asking, how long ago did you replace the windows and did you use shims?

Thanks.

FlyWright said:

I would seriously consider butyl tape as a window bedding. I've never done the job and here may be better products out there, but it has lots of advantages.

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I have Butyl tape! Thanks again Al


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

The Butyl tape sounds interesting. I guess my main concern is if by chance one of the pane's ever get broken, I'd like to be able to remove the frame without destroying it. With a curable sealer, the best you can do with all the prying and slicing is not pretty.

TG said:

I guess my main concern is if by chance one of the pane's ever get broken, I'd like to be able to remove the frame without destroying it..

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That's why we use Dolfinite. However, it may not be the right bedding material for your particular application.

I used butyl tape on a '77 O'Day sailboat a few years ago and it's holding up fine. I made the choice after removing the non leaking windows and finding butyl was used by the factory. The butyl I removed was still quite pliable. In the future I may try Dolphinite as I've heard great reviews on that material as well.

I've been using butyl tape for many years prior to coming to boating on RV windows, vents and door frames. It holds up great in that application as it remains pliable and RV's flex a lot going down the roads.

TG said:

The Butyl tape sounds interesting. I guess my main concern is if by chance one of the pane's ever get broken, I'd like to be able to remove the frame without destroying it. With a curable sealer, the best you can do with all the prying and slicing is not pretty.

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If you go on Peninsula Glass website and under "Motion windows" go to "installation" and they list "Double Sided Closed Cell Foam Tape." I can't believe they didn't include it with your order, mine came with two rolls. They want $1.50 per foot for it. Two windows is probably 45 ft of tape for those rear windows. I think I would be calling them on that one!!

Edelweiss said:

If you go on Peninsula Glass website and under "Motion windows" go to "installation" and they list "Double Sided Closed Cell Foam Tape." I can't believe they didn't include it with your order, mine came with two rolls. They want $1.50 per foot for it. Two windows is probably 45 ft of tape for those rear windows. I think I would be calling them on that one!!

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I read all of the install info on the site, that's why I asked where my tape was.

This is the response I received:

Subject: RE: Motion Windows: Ship Confirmation

David,

It does not look like you ordered that with your package. To be honest, that’s a great sealant for our land applications but not necessarily what I would use for your install. I would recommend a product similar to Sikaflex 295 UV.

Sincerely,
Jeff Kemp, Director of Sales

Some other Californian owners just bought windows from them too and I never heard them bring this up?? For what you pay for the windows, hard to believe they don't include it!

They also sell the Butyl tape there as well. Mine have been in quite a few years with the double sided foam and have never leaked. I wouldn't be interested in using the sealer, after breaking a couple of the old windows trying to pry them out.

Do you remember the thickness of the tape you used?

I was thinking it was pretty thin 1/2" or so. There should still be part of a roll in the jockey box on the boat. I'll try to look for it when I go over to the boat. Maybe this weekend if the weather cooperates.

On my aluminum windows I used butyl tape. Much easier to use than any caulking in this application.

It was recommended by the manufacturer and because the windows are basically the same as bus and RV windows, butyl has been used there for decades.

I have had a couple windows in and out .....very easy...out and back in with just a removing of the tape, add a little if an area needed it.

I recently found black butyl tape and with it matching the widow frames, as I redo a window for interior reasons, black tape makes for a nice look on the exterior till it finishes squeezing out and trimmed off.

One of the nice things about the butyl over foam is when you press the window into place, it will stay exactly where you want it till you get it clamped into place.

I've used Butyl tape on a variety of repair/rebed items on the boat for the last 2-3 years. So far all has been well with no leakage or apparent hardening of the tape. In one case, I had to remove some of bedded fittings to make an adjustment; sticky, but easy to do. Rebed was a success as well. Unlike some of the sealants in tubes, the tape will not chase you around the boat/dock/truck.

CS Yachts (Canadian Sailcraft) used butyl tape for the hull/deck joints starting in the 1970's. I have surveyed hundreds of CS boats and never seen a leak at the hull deck joint and the butyl is still as good as new forty years later.

Started the removal and fitment of the new starboard window.

Peninsula Glass used TMILLER's pattern when they made the windows and there was very little trimming of the opening required. I cut about a 1/4" off the top of the opening and opened the radius on the top forward corner by about an 1/8".


TMILLER's pattern as submitted is 16 3/8" tall according to the Blueprint made by Peninsula. I believe the true dimension of the wood frame is 16" that would explain the need for trimming. I think I would still keep it at 16 3/8" since it is easier to remove than add material. I used a sawzall and free handed it pretty straight forward.

Those old window frames were nasty and didn't even fit properly and you wondered why they leaked? On mine they filled the voids with a liquid caulking.

I had to do the same thing, even though they used my templates, as the opening needed adjustment on the ends. But I probably had to removed less material, it was a snap with a die grinder. Looking good

TG

I must have thrown the last of the roll of tape away. It's not on the boat anymore. I talked to my neighbor who helped me put the new windows in and he recalls that the gasket tape was 1" x 1/4" and was double sided. The tape was provided by Peninsula Glass and was packed in the box with each window.

Mahogany Panels are in. I laminated 1/2 " panels with 2 ply Ribbon Striped Mahogany Veneer from VeneerSupplies.com. The fresh cut Mahogany is much redder than the existing material so I stained it with General Finishes Yellow water based dye stain from Rockler then 2 coats Minwax Water Based Polyurethane Clear. Need one more coat of PU and ready to install window.

All of the panels for a given thickness can be produced with one 4x8 sheet of plywood. 3/4 structural, 1/2 decorative and Veneer. Final build up on the fiberglass structure came in right at 1.5 inches.

That looks great TG!


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

Nice job, TG. Thanks for the veneersupplies.com source. Are you pleased with the final match to the Philippine ribbon mahogany used by Marshall Boats?

FlyWright said:

Nice job, TG. Thanks for the veneersupplies.com source. Are you pleased with the final match to the Philippine ribbon mahogany used by Marshall Boats?

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The ribbon stripe is a little more angular than the original that is more linear. With the yellow dye the color is very close and I think if I refresh the finish of the factory panels the color will be even closer. I'm very satisfied with the final result.

I just finished the port side that I thought would be the easy one. What I discovered was a lot of rot and some localized termites so all of the wood on the lower half and sides of the Port window came out and was replaced. Also the wood frame had been removed at some point by a PO and was reset with 5200 so the wood frame and flange had to be painstakingly cutout and removed a foot at a time. In contrast, the starboard window nearly fell out in my hands once the outside flange screws were removed.

I ended up using double sided closed cell polyethylene fenestration tape for the seal. The flange on the windows is 3/4 inch so the tape I used was 3/4" wide by 1/8" thickness and requires a 30% compression to make a moisture resistant seal. With the starboard side I had a few helpers to set the window and on the port I was able to set it myself.

Here's the port window installed with new ribbon stripe. Also made new ceiling panels and covered with beadboard wallpaper and installed LED Puck lights, six in the ceiling and six under the decking. Most of the trim molding is re-installed.

Nice job, TG! That really looks nice. Good touch with the LED pucks and the new ceiling.

That looks great TG!


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

Very nice work TG! Ordered our windows yesterday from Motion using TMILLER's dimensions. Jeff is going to locate the aft window break lines with the cut in the trim/clamp ring behind the head partition. Thanks for the details and pics.

When fitting the new windows from Peninsula glass (Motion) be sure to dry fit the trim ring. The trim ring requires a larger opening than the window of approximately 1/4" all the way around and approximately 3/8" deep recess.

For me, since I made new trim panels I was able to remove them and cut in the offset. If you are keeping the original wood then you'll need to figure out how to cut in the offset, perhaps using a router with a guide installed.

TG said:

When fitting the new windows from Peninsula glass (Motion) be sure to dry fit the trim ring. The trim ring requires a larger opening than the window of approximately 1/4" all the way around and approximately 3/8" deep recess.

For me, since I made new trim panels I was able to remove them and cut in the offset. If you are keeping the original wood then you'll need to figure out how to cut in the offset, perhaps using a router with a guide installed.

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TG,
I have a manual glue scraper for sale. I will sell you the blueprints for making your own. Looking at the finished product I have to say, awesome job!

TG said:

When fitting the new windows from Peninsula glass (Motion) be sure to dry fit the trim ring. The trim ring requires a larger opening than the window of approximately 1/4" all the way around and approximately 3/8" deep recess.

For me, since I made new trim panels I was able to remove them and cut in the offset. If you are keeping the original wood then you'll need to figure out how to cut in the offset, perhaps using a router with a guide installed.

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Here's a shot of the offset required to fit the interior window flange (trim ring).

I had planned to re-use the rub-rails that run the length of the interior under the windows but the starboard side just had to much moisture damage and had to be remade. The rails are mahogany approximately 11 feet long, 2 1/2 wide and 7/8 thickness. The port was one continuous piece and the starboard I suspect was one piece originally but at some point was cut in half behind the bathroom wall that divides the area. When I reproduced them I moved the screw holes on the ends inward to give more clearance for the screw gun. I ended up using Honduran Mahogany which was really nice to work with albeit a little more orange in color. After tinting it with yellow dye it was a very close match to the original. I think African Mahogany is a closer match to the original trim but I had a difficult time sourcing it locally at 7/8 thick and the Honduran was available.

All

How timely, I just finished rebuilding my walls and could finally measure the thickness accurately. Time to order the windows. I am replacing 6 windows. I have got quotes from Motion Windows, Diamond Sea Glaze, Bomar and Wynne. $2400, $3200, $3730 and $3780. (not in order) Which manufacturer do you recommend? Tempered or laminated? Quote was for tempered. Below are some pics. They used scrap mahogany ply for the core, using putty rather than resin for the bonding to the outter layer. This made up for a poor mold and lay up but left plenty of air space for the water to travel. The putty required an air chisel to remove, hours of work. I replaced the core with Hydro Tek ply and bonded with thickened resin. The outter layer was woven roving and layers of chopped strand mat, then two coats of gelcoat to seal it all up. Once the admiral decides on the new wall treatment (any time they say treatment, its gonna cost $) I will apply that to the final 3/8 ply and finish the wall in time for the window installation.