Use it or loose it

BandB said:

Keeping the boat clean, decks, inside, and hull. Water systems. Fuel systems. Holding tanks. Heads. Bilge pumps. Batteries and electrical systems. Watermaker. Engines. Generators. Running equipment-shafts, props, seals. Tender if one. Anodes. Heating and Air. Steering. Autopilot.

Nothing on a boat that doesn't require maintenance.

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Your last statement is a known for me.

Is there a schedule for freqency for the above or just as needed?

As specific you listed bilge pumps. Is there some service proceedure for a larger pump on a trawler or are you just saying keep it clean?

>>>>>>>>>>>Action

Action said:

Your last statement is a known for me.

Is there a schedule for freqency for the above or just as needed?

As specific you listed bilge pumps. Is there some service proceedure for a larger pump on a trawler or are you just saying keep it clean?

>>>>>>>>>>>Action

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I'm saying regularly check there's no water and the pump is in functioning condition. For me, that's someone checking the boat weekly. For others, it's less frequently. I'm aware of too many boats to develop a leak around a hull fitting and the bilge pumps not be in operable condition. And boats equipped with fairly strong back up emergency pumps but start leaking at sea and the pump not work.

Someone mentioned dry storage above and if the right size boat and facilities available it has definite advantages.

Something often overlooked is a boat kept tightly closed for extended periods in humid areas. Now, in Southern California you don't encounter that as much of a problem.

A part of what I'm attempting to describe is checking things and addressing any problems. The second part is regularly starting the engines and bringing them up to operating temperatures while checking everything out. (And I include generators when I speak of engines). The third part is regular maintenance that is typically required by hours or time and the average boater does it by time. Not unlike a car that sits. If we changed the oil in our cars by miles, we'd only change every couple of years. Our cars sit in our garage at home six weeks at a time. We do have someone who starts them every week and runs them periodically. And oil gets changed periodically even though it's barely been used. We'll probably be buying new tires at around 20,000 miles while the tread on the old ones looks like new. And replaced one battery after two years, got fewer than 8,000 miles out of it.

I appreciate the input. And the dialog about periodically and regular maintence based on time.

What I am getting little of and really want is specific proceedures at specific intervals. You state, "The third part is regular maintenance that is typically required by hours or time and the average boater does it by time" And I still don't know what that is. Barring your statements above about engines. And we can set engines aside because I have enough data outside of this forum regarding engines, specifically marine diesel engines both running and generating, to formalate what I seek.

It is those other regular maintence items you mentioned needed based on time that I feel are important and Ihave so little input on it. It seems based on the posts that everyone does those things on a random basis when ever they are on their vessel. I would have thought that there are printed schedules either recommended or created based on needs. It would seem to me that a vessel that is this expensive and complex (as compared to a car or light truck) would have all kinds of charts, logs or scheduels that require inspection/actio or replacement at given time intervals. In the auto industry I can refer some one to pages and pages of schedules based on year make and model. And as you pointed out above these schedules are based on time OR mileage (use) which ever comes first.

My Wellcraft is kind of the same way there isn't a schedule to do things other than season opening and closing and annually. It is really a poor manual that I got with my boat. I would have thought for the expense there would have been something more specific with this kind of vessel.

Action said:

I appreciate the input. And the dialog about periodically and regular maintence based on time.

What I am getting little of and really want is specific proceedures at specific intervals. You state, "The third part is regular maintenance that is typically required by hours or time and the average boater does it by time" And I still don't know what that is. Barring your statements above about engines. And we can set engines aside because I have enough data outside of this forum regarding engines, specifically marine diesel engines both running and generating, to formalate what I seek.

It is those other regular maintence items you mentioned needed based on time that I feel are important and Ihave so little input on it. It seems based on the posts that everyone does those things on a random basis when ever they are on their vessel. I would have thought that there are printed schedules either recommended or created based on needs. It would seem to me that a vessel that is this expensive and complex (as compared to a car or light truck) would have all kinds of charts, logs or scheduels that require inspection/actio or replacement at given time intervals. In the auto industry I can refer some one to pages and pages of schedules based on year make and model. And as you pointed out above these schedules are based on time OR mileage (use) which ever comes first.

My Wellcraft is kind of the same way there isn't a schedule to do things other than season opening and closing and annually. It is really a poor manual that I got with my boat. I would have thought for the expense there would have been something more specific with this kind of vessel.

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I give up. I'm clearly failing to deliver what you want. Someone else can try. I told you things I'd check weekly, gave you other information. And you keep comparing it to a car, well I haven't seen a car owners manual yet that tells you how frequently to wash the car, to wax the car, to clean the upholstery, to paint the car. My auto owner's manual doesn't tell me when to change the battery. It covers mainly the engine and a couple of other things like the brakes. If you decide to follow through with this you should select a management company where the boat is located and work out with them their frequency. But they cannot tell you when a bilge pump will need replacing. All they can tell you is how frequently they'll check. They'll let you know when it needs replacing. You don't have the boat, no one can give you a detailed schedule of an unknown, only generalities. When you get a boat with actual equipment, the manufacturers' websites for all that equipment will have owner's manuals and maintenance recommendations.

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't know any further way to answer.

Action said:

My Wellcraft is kind of the same way there isn't a schedule to do things other than season opening and closing and annually. It is really a poor manual that I got with my boat. I would have thought for the expense there would have been something more specific with this kind of vessel.

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Based upon you stating the boats you are looking at have Perkins and Lehman engines(nothing wrong with them at all) prepare to be disappointed in the owners manual area. Most of them will not have one and IF they do it won't be any better than the one on your Wellcraft.

The only exception might be found in Carver yachts. Baker at this forum purchased a Carver a year or so ago and stated that his came with a reasonably complete one. Not too many Carvers will be found with Perkins or Lehman's though.

Specifically, what kind of boat are you looking for?

Sounds like you need to talk to someone with a dock queen that's maintained in perfect condition. Personally, I've never seen or heard of one. All the boats I'm familiar with that are properly maintained are operated and enjoyed regularly.

Action: Though the well-thought out advice you've received does not meet your needs, please recognize that for those of us "in the trenches" ... well, we have seen all too many absentee owners and the eventual derelicts that ensue. It happens, even to those with the best of intentions.

You want to buy the boat and keep her in usable condition from afar: That happens too. And it is not inexpensive. So, consult management companies in the area you're planning to leave your new acquisition. They will be able to give you a general idea of their solutions for distant owners.

Routine includes everything from simple checks on the bilge pumps (I do that weekly and live aboard so I'm right here) and I've had one fail. Okay, the doggone thing ran however the impeller was shot and it did not pump water. Not good.

Also, fire extinguishers (are they in the green?)
Each week I use every outlet on the boat -- when one quits I find out why.

In the bilge I check for anything out of place/odd. A couple days ago I noticed a bit of green on the wind genny wiring -- fixed it.
I run through a tank of water every 5 to 7 days therefore my system is flushed. However monthly I add h2O2 to keep everything fresh. Still, I'm about due to replace the hoses in my system.

The whole house, er boat, filter needs replacement every three months.

Monthly I separate out my batteries (individually) and check they hold a charge (by placing a load on the batt to see how far down it goes and how quickly, plus how fast it recovers after the load is removed)

And

The power cord (I'm docked for the engine swap) is removed, corrosion/dielectric grease is sprayed in the female ends and replaced.

The doggone skylight in the pilothouse leaks. Discovered that the last time it rained. Lovely -- nothing "wrong" and no maintenance issue. It simply started leaking. If I were six hours away this is an issue that would be discovered at some point, but I'm not sure when.

The screens are deteriorating -- need replacement
My 12-volt Orek vacuum just died. No reason -- darn thing won't work though.
The drill died a couple or three weeks ago. That one was old age.

I'm here and every single day I do something for my home -- it might be as simple as wiping down a bulkhead (grime, or mildew when it's damp and the windows are open)

If you want to enjoy a new bigger boat, take the advice offered by BandB and others: charter until you're ready to use her.

Or, hire a professional team to take care of your vessel and have her always shipshape and ready to use. That's what the big guys do. They have paid staff (captain and crew) who take care of the boat for the absentee owners. Those boats generally are larger, but very nicely maintained.

Otherwise you can count on, depend upon, and rely on the fact that your boat will deteriorate. And please know I like folks who boat -- they are the most fun ever. However all too often I see boats bought for the long term and goals change.

What you find wrong with your boat today and want to replace with that bigger boat will change in the coming years. That's nature. I know no one who lives a static life. You might want a fly bridge today. And next year a bout of skin cancer will say "no more fly bridges for you Sonny" so your needs change.

The go-fast fishing boat might be perfect today, but in five years when that w-o-r-k thing is over you might like life at six knots. Or the reverse might be true.

Until you are ready to use your boat on a more frequent basis you would be FAR BETTER off to charter. The experience you gain in trying for a week or three a variety of boats is far more valuable to you than any advice we on this forum might offer to you.

Those charters will solidify the type of boat you want. But don't be surprised that after a dozen charters you'll have gone through at least 8 different boat wishes for The One.

I wish you well and realize that this answer is probably just as unsatisfactory as the good advice you've been offered before. I am not trying to rain on your parade. I am offering the words of experience from one who lives aboard and sees the results of choices others have made. Some wise, and many not-so-smart.

To you and yours Action, all the best.

This whoole maintenance thing is missing a big concept.

My engine and generator maintenance amounts to a couple days labor at the most a year.

Its all the oother stuff. The door rollers that if you don't lube them have issues. The little leaks that all boats get. The plumbing systems, the macerator pump that won't work if you don't use it. The shower sump pump that gets soapy and needs cleaning out.

A zillion little things.

I spend several weeks a year, a day or two at a time maintaining all the little things.

Now, if you buy a new boat you will have a honeymoon period on allot of this stuff, but I dont think thats your market.

I do not have a problem with your distance to your boat. What I have a challenge with is that if your expectation is to show up a few times a year with ther wife and kiddies and all will be OK, think again. Or plan on having huge maintenance biills, and or a partly functional boat at any given time.

Don't forget the critters. There will be small ones (and plants!) attacking your underwater surfaces 24x7. And birds pooping on your decks, maybe even nesting if you're not around. Don't forget the insects - spider droppings on your gel coat and various nesting insects in your vents. And maybe a muskrat munching on your waterline exhaust. Or, heaven forbid, maybe a rat finds it's way aboard.

Action said:

What I am getting little of and really want is specific proceedures at specific intervals. You state, "The third part is regular maintenance that is typically required by hours or time and the average boater does it by time" And I still don't know what that is.

It is those other regular maintence items you mentioned needed based on time that I feel are important and Ihave so little input on it. It seems based on the posts that everyone does those things on a random basis when ever they are on their vessel. I would have thought that there are printed schedules either recommended or created based on needs. It would seem to me that a vessel that is this expensive and complex (as compared to a car or light truck) would have all kinds of charts, logs or scheduels that require inspection/actio or replacement at given time intervals.

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On that documentation thing, not so much. But everyone here really is trying to help.

Our boat documentation may be typical of relatively recent deliveries: a decent operator's manual (with physical and electrical schematics) produced by the boatbuilder, and then a briefcase full of individual systems manuals for everything else they installed. The engines, the genset, the battery charger, the ACs, the bilge pumps, the freshwater pump, the raw water pump, the cooktop, the microwave/convection oven, the coffeemaker, the faucets, the showerhead, the inside sound system, the outside sound system, the tank gauges, the electronics (each individual component), yaddy yaddy yadda...

All these latter manuals are from the system manufacturers, and these days its not too difficult to recreate all that in softcopy. Given that all of us likely don't have the same internal systems, it's not easy to come up with a blanket schedule that would apply to all boats of a certain class.

Other than what OB and psn and others have tried to describe.

I can tell you I do daily checks of almost everything in sight, when aboard. Sometimes the check are cursory; for example, if the freshwater system works at the faucet when I make coffee, and the pump's not running on, good to go. Today. Probably. And so forth. But if something needs fixing, I fix it... either immediately or as soon as possible after ordering parts/tools. And using the freshwater example, just 'cause I "checked" it today, that doesn't mean a fitting might not work loose tomorrow.

OB mentions running engines up to temps; ours won't hardly get there, idling at the doc. So doing that means taking a nice little river cruise, weekly, at the very least. Which in turn also holds down bottom growth...

And I do that with the genset running and a load on, so it gets a workout too.

-Chris

janice142 said:

Until you are ready to use your boat on a more frequent basis you would be FAR BETTER off to charter. The experience you gain in trying for a week or three a variety of boats is far more valuable to you than any advice we on this forum might offer to you.

Those charters will solidify the type of boat you want. But don't be surprised that after a dozen charters you'll have gone through at least 8 different boat wishes for The One.
.

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"Sage" advise from one who lives aboard & I couldn't agree more! Unless you are extremely well off, so as to keep up (by hiring) with all the maintenance issues you are bound to face, your present path to boating is fraught with "frustration" and expense.

Take a hint from one who has been down the path you are choosing, wait until the w-o-r-k- thing is finished before you purchase the big boat. (I had a big boat in San Diego while I lived 300 miles away and it wasn't much fun.) I didn't charter either but I should have. I didn't listen to others who have been running their own boats for many years but I should have. In closing, my retirement kitty would be a lot bigger if I had just listened!

Codger2 said:

I didn't charter either but I should have. I didn't listen to others who have been running their own boats for many years but I should have.

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I particularly love the irony where the OP says that we aren't listening. ?

Action said:

It is those other regular maintence items you mentioned needed based on time that I feel are important and Ihave so little input on it. It seems based on the posts that everyone does those things on a random basis when ever they are on their vessel. I would have thought that there are printed schedules either recommended or created based on needs. It would seem to me that a vessel that is this expensive and complex (as compared to a car or light truck) would have all kinds of charts, logs or scheduels that require inspection/actio or replacement at given time intervals. In the auto industry I can refer some one to pages and pages of schedules based on year make and model. And as you pointed out above these schedules are based on time OR mileage (use) which ever comes first.

My Wellcraft is kind of the same way there isn't a schedule to do things other than season opening and closing and annually. It is really a poor manual that I got with my boat. I would have thought for the expense there would have been something more specific with this kind of vessel.

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Welcome to the world of boating. Where you are lucky to get even the most basic general manual of any kind for your vessel.

You really end up making one up yourself as you go along.

Replacing or servicing some things on a regular schedule makes sense. But a lot of things are better off serviced as needed with spares on board.

A good boat manager should already have a general list that they use for the boats they oversee that they can adapt to your boat.

As to owning a boat you are only going to use two times or so a year, if you really have made up your mind that is what you want to do, you would be better off allowing a charter company or captain to charter it for you. Even if only lightly. That way the boat gets used and systems get the proper exercise.

refugio said:

I particularly love the irony where the OP says that we aren't listening. ?

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Boater#1 How strange it is!
Boater#2 How strange what is?
Boater#1 That it should be so clear to all but he!
Boater#2 That what should be so clear?
Boater#1 Deaf ears!
Boater#2 Deaf ears? How so?
Boater#1 Strange....Strange indeed.

Well, Action, here are some specifics. Please understand this is for my boat, a real boat, and your boat is theoretical. Moorage is about ten grand per year. Zincs replaced every six months, about a grand a year. Insurance two grand a year. Twin engines, genset, outboard engine, oil and filter changes and zincs two grand per year. Boat detailed annually, washed monthly, three grand per year.

The boat should be run monthly. Hire a captain to take it out for a couple of hours each month, maybe six grand a year.

If you don't run the boat monthly it won't be a turnkey boat when you want to use it.

People will notice a boat that is unused most of the time. If your marina isn't locked up and patrolled, how will you handle it if someone jimmies the lock and throws a party on your boat? What if otters or sea lions take up residence on your dinghy or in the cockpit?

A boat in SoCal left unused six months at a stretch will probably get musty or worse inside. I run a dehumidifier and empty it weekly and clean the filter about every three weeks. Who will do that?

So I would figure somewhere between 15 to 30 grand per year to keep your boat insured, moored, and kept up.