Replumbing fuel system...critique my design

janice142 said:

About Racor 500's... on our 40'er we used the 500's and Bounty paper towels. The regular size rolls fit and are an inexpensive option for polishing versus Racor filters. DO NOT go cheap with a lesser brand. Buy Bounty.

The larger rolls won't fit so you'll have to remove some of the towels. That's why I suggested the standard size. I borrowed a pair of 500's when I polished the fuel in Seaweed a few years back. It worked.

There's probably a reason not to opt for Bounty but it worked for us. The 40'er had a Cummins tractor motor that my dad had marinized. I wish I'd paid more attention to that!!

Oh, and sneak peek and my beautiful new acquisition: (I'm so tickled I can hardly stand myself!)

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I'm confused, first, are you saying you put paper towels in a Racor 500 filter housing? I'm guessing not, because I can't see how they would fit. Seeing how tall the roll is.

And what is that manifold supposed to be for, exhaust elbow? And what brand and model of engine is it going on?

Skinny said:

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If you're going to use vacuum gauges, take a look at these:
http://www.digivac.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/model_500_fail_safe_alert.pdf

Capt.Bill11 said:

I'm confused, first, are you saying you put paper towels in a Racor 500 filter housing? I'm guessing not, because I can't see how they would fit. Seeing how tall the roll is.

And what is that manifold supposed to be for, exhaust elbow? And what brand and model of engine is it going on?

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Bill

You are a brave man. This could get interesting.

sunchaser said:

Bill

You are a brave man. This could get interesting.

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Why? Did I just walk into some kind of mine field or something?

Capt.Bill11 said:

If you're going to use vacuum gauges, take a look at these:
http://www.digivac.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/model_500_fail_safe_alert.pdf

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Uh...you are aware that one of those is $1284???

Yes.

That is the equivalent of installing a laser guided missile on a fly swatter.

Depends on how big your flies are.

Capt.Bill11 said:

I'm confused, first, are you saying you put paper towels in a Racor 500 filter housing? I'm guessing not, because I can't see how they would fit. Seeing how tall the roll is.

And what is that manifold supposed to be for, exhaust elbow? And what brand and model of engine is it going on?

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Memory here, though I believe we had Racor500's on the 40'er. Another person suggested it was the Racor1000's. What I know for certain is we didn't buy the Racor filters. They were expensive.

Instead we opted for Bounty paper towel rolls in the Racor filter assembly. We did not cut down the length of the roll (height) though the bigger rolls had to have sheets removed so they would fit in the filter.

This worked fine however I couldn't tell you the micron level to save the day. It's what we did -- not what the books say to do.

And anecdotal experience, when I wanted to polish the fuel in Seaweed I borrowed a guy's set up and used paper towel rolls to remove the gunk, not the Racor filters.

Thread drift, apologies in advance: The manifold is for my Kubota 18hp tractor motor that is being turned into a marine engine. It takes 8hp to move my girl at hull speed (5 knots) so there's plenty to spare with the little Kubota from Yanmar Tractors/Parts/Service and I'm beyond pleased to be getting closer to leaving this dock. Until she's in motion a boat tied to a dock is just substandard housing.

I just fire up my old Perkins to clear any flying pests away. The old 6.354 complies with Tier 4,398 in the EPA emissions guidelines

I believe you are referring to something like this with the paper towel filtration:

Captn Wil's Fuel Polishing System: Trawlers & Trawlering How To

No worries on the thread drift, anything relating to fuel systems will help me or someone else reading it in the future.

A roll of paper towels is as big or bigger than a 500 filter body let alone fit inside it. Might fit in 1000s.

Are you sure you were not using Gulf Coast filter bodies that are made for paper towels?

Racor filter elements are made to seal tight against the center tube in the housing. A roll of paper towels would not even come close to doing that so I don't see how they could work.

Plus they don't have the water blocking coating that Racor elements have.

Capt. Bill11: As stated, I'm sure the proper elements satisfy all the requirements. I'm just saying what we did for decades on our 40' sedan cruiser. This was installed during engine Two (Perkins) and continued to be used for Three (Cummins)

We owned the boat for nearly 50 years and well over 100k miles. Here's an article about her: janice142 article The Fishing Boat

I did look at Wil's setup. Our filter looked like the Racor design with a metal top and clear housing. The next time I'm in a real town with a store I'll give a look see to verify what we used. It did fit standard rolls of Bounty brand paper towels.

We did not buy the Super Rolls (too thick, too many sheets so would have to remove some to fit the diameter of the housing) and never bought the cheap off brands. This is one time when a name brand is Required.

Of course Capt. Bill11, the Racor brand filters are no doubt superior. I'm sure we could get into a 10 versus 2 micron debate in less time than the "Which anchor is best?" threads! The racor brand filters are a first choice for many.

However, for a boat that is run a lot it's possible another way will work. If the potential long term consequences concern you, buy Racor. Otherwise, consider what the working boats use. Talk with fishermen, the guys who earn their living afloat. Those fellows rely on their engines to earn money and they also need to maximize profits. If it is better to spend the money on something they will. If not...

Ah, I see I may have stepped on the first mine.

I was just trying to figure out how you could possibly make a roll of paper towels work as a filter element in a Racor housing. Not debating which system was the best or better.

As I figured you most likely did not have a Racor housing. And certainly not a 500. Just one of the ones that look similar but are intended to use a roll of paper towels, or in some cases TP, as an element. They work just fine from what I understand. Not sure how good they are at absorbing water once the paper towels are soaked with diesel fuel though.

Did the housings look like these? Product Info Fuel Filters

And by the way, I to make my living on the water and have for the last 30 years or so.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Ah, I see I may have stepped on the first mine. I was just trying to figure out how you could possibly make a roll of paper towels work as a filter element in a Racor housing. Not debating which system was the best or better. .

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Now Bill, you just want to get off Scott free, which is what the Bounty (P&G) purveyors have also done.

I'm awaiting Gulf Coast's website reports on testing of Bounty vs Scott vs Costco and the 30u beta rating which emanates from each. Guess I'll be waiting awhile.

More mines to come, best I lay low.

I have absolutely zero desire to install a toilet paper filter on my diesel system but I also think it is impossible to wipe while in the head with a Racor 500 element...

I would like to add that this fuel filter system is going on a 35 year old boat that has a value of roughly $30k. I think a decent filter system should be related to the value and function of the boat. A $1200 filter flow module sounds great and serves the same function regardless of boat but really need to keep things relative here. Cannot be swapping in a Ferrari engine into a Honda Civic...

That is one reason I want to go with simple, cheap, functional spin on filters that are plumbed for redundancy (single screw) that only gets a small number of hours each season.

As far as stepping on mines, I'm all for spirited non-confrontational conversation. Sheeple go with the flow!

sunchaser said:

Now Bill, you just want to get off Scott free, which is what the Bounty (P&G) purveyors have also done.

I'm awaiting Gulf Coast's website reports on testing of Bounty vs Scott vs Costco and the 30u beta rating which emanates from each. Guess I'll be waiting awhile.

More mines to come, best I lay low.

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Yeah there doesn't seem to be a lot of testing behind them. But I could see running them ahead of a Racor or as a bulk filter on a tank cleaning system perhaps. Only using Bounty rolls of course.

Some guys are just into Raccor, personally I have a diesel tank with a sump which I periodically drain a small glass full off to check for crud and water, a Caterpillar centrifugal pre filter with water drain and spin on engine filter.
Keeping it simple, very cheap and very effective.
p.s the Nanni range of marine diesels are all Kubota based for spares, manifolds can be purchased for almost any engine at ejbowman.co.uk who will ship worldwide.

Do you have a link to the CAT centrifugal fuel pre filter? I know they have centrifugal oil filters. But I don't recall seeing a CAT centrifugal fuel filter from them. I've only seen/used after market ones.

You're lucky you have a proper sump. Most boats don't.

Perhaps I have a gotten a little lost on the discussion of using Gulf Coast Filtering system and Bounty paper towels. The Gulf Coast website seems to be selling a filter and it isn't paper towels. How do you get the paper towels into it? Slide the old paper off the filter frame and slide paper towels onto it?

Donsan said:

Perhaps I have a gotten a little lost on the discussion of using Gulf Coast Filtering system and Bounty paper towels. The Gulf Coast website seems to be selling a filter and it isn't paper towels. How do you get the paper towels into it? Slide the old paper off the filter frame and slide paper towels onto it?

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The filter element they sell is still basically a roll of paper towels as far as I can see.

Back in the day they didn't even sell a filter element. You just used paper towels. I guess at some point they figured out there was more money to be made if they sold their own "special" filter elements. If you tear open one of their elements I think you'll find its a roll of paper towels wrapped in cheese cloth with a huge price make up.

"GCF Filters use cellulose media"

Sounds like fancy way to say paper to me. Plus they tout a test done by the "Scott Paper Company". Scott of course makes paper towels. Oops, I sorry, cellulose media.

In fact now that I think about it you can see a picture of an old GCF with paper towels as on element at this same link:

Captn Wil's Fuel Polishing System: Trawlers & Trawlering How To

Capt.Bill11 said:

In fact now that I think about it you can see a picture of an old GCF with paper towels as on element at this same link:



Captn Wil's Fuel Polishing System: Trawlers & Trawlering How To

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What?! That's a GCF-1 filter.

Sorry Capt Bill I don't have a link but any Cat dealer will have them in stock.
Please see photo's of our boat in France showing the filter, insert, fuel flow centrifuge, the mark of the fuel flow on the plastic fuel flow centrifuge and the sump with drain.
I've found over the years that this is the simplest and most cost effective.


The last photo is of Richards boat in Waterford, Ireland.

Capt Bill.
The fuel filter/water separator comes in three parts, the head, the disposable canister filter and a clear,water/sediment bowl.
If you unscrew the plastic top you will see in the centre of the filter head a plastic fitting with 2 small vanes on the top.
As the fuel flows into the filter it turns these vanes and separates water/sediment from the fuel.
As the bowl is clear you can see any water/sediment and you simply open the drain at the bottom to remove it.
The filter is a Cat Fuel/Water separator part no 159-6102.
A simple, cheap and effective system with a sump and drain on the main fuel tank, not once in over 40 years cruising have I ever broken down with contaminated fuel.

OK, now I know what you were talking about. Thanks.