Veneer repair

Hiya,
* Have several screw holes on interior teak counter top/bulkhead venerred plywood*where various brackets and do-dads have been removed.* Don't want to re-veneer or put up new do-dads.* *What have y'all done to make these blemishes "disapear"?
** Thinking of using a wax stick or stained filler?????
** Thanks in advance.

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Sunday 10th of October 2010 07:03:55 AM

RT Firefly wrote:What have y'all done to make these blemishes "disapear"?

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Beer mats/coasters **

Hiya,
** Rick B, I suppose beer mats and coasters are not technicaly do-dads they're more like knick-knacs.* Something I'm trying to avoid.
**One thought I had was to use something like this:
**** http://www.aetools.com/kastar-brand/11-pc-gasket-hole-punch-set.html
where I could*encircle the hole, remove the offending bits, then punch an insert out of a new piece of veneer and glue in.* Then a light re-finish.
** Furthermore Mr. B, if you can get a beer mat to stay on a verticle surface without some sort of "stickum", THAT i'd like to see...Mr. anti-gravity sir!

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Sunday 10th of October 2010 08:36:19 AM

I've used a filler called "Plastic Wood". It comes in a variety of colors and is ready to use. Just dab it in and wipe off the excess.

Teak plugs.
I have tried the fillers. They look the right colour for the first day or so, then they change colour differently from the surrounding veneer and look like you removed a doo-dad and filled the holes with some cheap stuff instead of doing a proper plug job.

I second Keith's suggestion of using teak plugs. Some stores sell them in bulk from a drawer, some sell pre-packaged plugs. They come in different sizes from 1/4" on up. Maybe even smaller but 1/4" is the smallest I can recall seeing. If they're sold in bulk you can pick through them and select plugs that are closest in color to your veneer. But even the packages contain a variety of shades.

Remember to align the grain of the plug with the grain of the veneer.* An non-alighned plug will really stand out even if the color is close.* Keep in mind that the exposed surface of an installed plug will turn significantly darker when any sort of finish is applied. You might even want to try putting whatever finish you're going to use--- oil, varnish, wax, etc-- on the end of a plug before you insert it to see if its final color will be close to the color of your veneer.

I generally don't worry about this--- teak is teak and even if a plug is obvious after installation and finishing it still looks "right" to me. American Marine (Grand Banks) used to cut the plugs that were going to hide the screws in a drawer, window valance, etc. out of the same piece of wood the drawer or valance was going to be made from. So the factory-original plugs in the cabinetry on our boat are almost invisible--- you have to get right up to the wood to find them. Where I have had to remove cabinetry and so install new plugs when it's put back in place I have not been quite so anal. I try to get a close match but if it's too light or too dark after refinishing I don't worry about it.

Since you are simply filling a hole, not covering a deck screw, the best drill bit in my experience to use is a Forstner bit.* This will drill a nice cylindrical hole with a flat bottom.* On the recommendation of a very experienced shipwright we glue in all our plugs-- ineterior and exterior including the deck--- with Tightbond wood glue.* It used to be Tightbond II but now they're up to Tighbond III which I undersand is even more water-resistant.


-- Edited by Marin on Sunday 10th of October 2010 12:44:21 PM

Hiya,
** Thanks for the info guys.* I do have plug cutters and a modest supply of old teak and may eventually try the solid plug.* Regarding color matching.* I agree Mr. Marin.* A properly aligned and finished plug looks just fine.
** I think initially I will try to just cut through the veneer with a gasket hole punch and try to fiddle around that way.* Then if that is not satisfactory, I will go the solid plug route.
* Thanks again for the suggestions.* I'll provide an update when I attempt the repair.

RT Firefly wrote:I think initially I will try to just cut through the veneer with a gasket hole punch ...*

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Be careful. Gasket punches usually have a fairly steep external taper and you could make the little problem into a larger one with the tap of a hammer.

Don't use the cutter! You will not get a matching size unless you have a inside and outside matching punch.

I like the plug idea for nice small holes but if you are up to it, this method also works well - I do it for furniture restoration work.

Veneer is produced in greatly differing thicknesses. I've worked with it from 1/8" thick all the way down to 1/60". Find a spot where you can see the end grain of the plywood so that you can measure the thickness.

I get veneer from many local sources - you may need to check your local or use the web. First thing is to try to match thickness - go thicker if you have the option.

Once you have the veneer you may want to try to get the color to match using analyne dye - that may be overkill for your situation but my clients want as close a match as possible.

Take a suitable small section of the veneer that has as close a grain and color match as possible and tape it onto the section being repaired. When you tape it, IF THE VENEER IS THICK ENOUGH completely cover the veneer with 1 layer (only) of tape.

Then take an X-acto knife and cut thru both the new veneer and the underlying original veneer using about a 5 degree inward angle (very slight but still a bit of an inward cant). (Inward being toward the hole - this will cause the new piece to overlap just enough to cover the thickness of the X-acto blade). Don't worry about the shape of the hole - it does not have to be round but comes out best if slightly irregular.

The top piece will come loose when you make the final cut - reserve it.

Gently remove the original veneer. I use small scrapers that I've ground specifically for doing this but you could use the X-acto and a small standard tip screwdriver - just be gentle and cautious.

Next if you over taped the veneer, remove the tape from the replacement veneer - Very Gently as this can split the veneer.

Next is the gluing. I use Tightbond II or Tightbond III. Put a small bit of glue on the plywood and place the replacement veneer into it matching whole - pressing enough to push out the excess glue but not enough to starve the joint and then tape it in place until it dries.

Sand and finish.

While this method works VERY WELL for me, I would suggest that you try it first on some scrap plywood so that you get the feel of it and learn the in's and out's of it (is the veneer thick enough to handle the tape, is my blade angle correct, things like that).

Hope that helps!

Yes it does, thank you. I too have a couple spots to do a repair and they are larger than the typical screw holes. Luckily I saved the old original veneer pieces from a repair I did a few years ago.

For cutting the holes the old style bits (with a screw in the center) as usually turned by a Brace will bore perfect sized holes with clean edges.

You may have to glue a small piece if wood in before boring to give a center for the bit.

You could make some additional holes cuts and made it part of a design, so it looks like its suppose to be there.* I did that with the pilot house table just dilled more holes inserted plug and no body is the wiser.* *

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Thursday 2nd of December 2010 01:52:44 PM

Hiya,
** No thanks Phil/Fill, not my style.* All OTHER suggestions welcomed and filed.
** Now, on giving this further thought...
** Yes Mr. Rick B., I am aware of the taper (sharp) on hole cutters soooo....I may make my own hole cutter with a reverse taper*like* |/**\| rather than \|* |/.* I do have a lathe and some machining skills so I should be able to remove a veneer "slug" from the counter top of say, 3/8" diam', shave a thin slice off a teak plug of 3/8" diam', glue that in place and finish from there.
* The jury is till out on this project and you've given me lots of options-thanks.

If you want I could also loan you my distressing chains and punches - Just kidding

One person mentioned a woodputty... Here are some more "ideas".

Some wood putties tends to lighten in sun while others that are oil based tend to leach the oil into the surrounding wood sometimes making for a visual mess (kind of like a halo). I have no idea how to fix the halo. But, on the ones that lighten, they make furniture color felt tip markers. My wife uses them from time to time and they actually work quite well.

If you have some veneer that has cracked or split and has lines try this. By using the same species along with the same finish material the outcome will look like the darker portion of the wood grain:
Get a piece of same species wood. Sand it using a sander that has a dust collector on it. After you have plenty of dust take an appropriate amount of it and blend it with the same finish material that you use to varnish the wall (or surface). Once you get it to a thick consistency (just a bit thicker than epoxy peanut butter), using a putty knife, trowel it into the crack. Make sure you trowel it such that the filler material is just higher than the surrounding surface. (I wish I had a picture I could upload) there should be a raised line where the crack was and there should be no or very slight amounts of the putty on the original veneer surface. Once it dries sand it down with (I like) 120 and then finish with 220 grit. Be very careful when sanding because if the surrounding veneer is the 1/60" thickness you will sand through VERY easily.

Ever have someone drop a heavy object and nick the wood? Steam it out. What happens is that when the wood is struck, the cellular walls crush and the wood compresses. Take the area that has the dent and fill it with water (not the whole surface, just the dent and let it sit and absorb. Then using your clothing iron (NO water in it to create more steam) place a towel over the dented area (so you don't burn the surrounding area or melt the finish) and heat the water in the dent until it's gone. This pushes water into the cells and causes the wood to expand. For small dents you may only have to do it a couple times. I've brought out dents that were 1/8" + deep but had to do the steaming maybe 7-8 times.

Although I've never used them, they also make a colored filler that is melted into place. But from what Ive seen you need some special tools and a lot of practice to get a good color match and you still are left without any grain.

Hiya,
** Mr. carvendive.* I appreciate your expert opinion.* Yet ANOTHER option-Thanks

carvendive wrote:
Take the area that has the dent and fill it with water (not the whole surface, just the dent

and let it sit and absorb. Then using your clothing iron (NO water in it to create more steam) place a towel over the dented area (so you don't burn the surrounding area or melt the finish) and heat the water in the dent until it's gone.

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As a young lad I used to recondition shot gun & rifle stocks by using this method.
It's foolproof for removing scratches & dents in wood. I didn't fill the scratch or dent with water, however. I placed a wet (wrung out) dishcloth over the area to be raised and ironed it dry.


*


-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Thursday 2nd of December 2010 05:18:42 PM

Firefly, one method I've used that is a whole lot easier than alternatives is using epoxy mixed with sanding dust and other coloring additives to match the wood color being repaired.* I have even sanded charcoal briquets to create black dust that I used to make black epoxy that I used to patch ebony.* Use a sharp flexible putty knife to fill the holes and scrap any excess off.* When firm, wipe down with MEK to clean up residue and glaze the epoxy.

My son came over and he is going to have a new wood inlay table made.* I think its going to be a mariner compass as that is what the table had before my wife decided to refinish the table and sanded the compass off.* So now its just a plain old teak wood table.* How boring.* I might have him pimp out the boat as his company does glass etching, rod iron, and stain glass.* If you get a change to go to Toulouse or Pecos in Seattle, or Azual in Mill Creek, you can see what the restaurants look like, and the food is not bad.*

So RTF how is your project going?

Does anybody have a simple Eagle pattern as we would prefer an Eagle rather than a compass?

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Friday 17th of December 2010 10:05:25 AM