Convert trawler to motorsailer?

Thanks for the info FF. I look forward to you looking over my boat when I get to your dock.

Might be on your return visit .

I am tracking down a fuel problem "making oil" in the lube oil, and we may be gone at the start of April.

The dock will be clear , so come on over.

cardude01 said:

Deal. Let's draw up the option contract now so we both have a contingency plan. What's that option worth?

??

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I was thinking of trying to do this to my Roughwater 35, only a few were ever made and I do not think any have survived.

That looks really cool

Greetings,
Mr. cd. "But I do yearn for some adventure, and since I've turned 50 that desire has grown much stronger." I think you may be experiencing the onset of andropause. Some males self "medicate" with little red sports cars or fast women (younger). I do NOT suggest this nor do I suggest converting to sail. Sit back, relax and chill...

I'm sure the IP sails fine on all points with its stock rig. Sure it is not a racer, but it will get you there. The IP SP boat is more sailor than it is powerboat.

http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/boat-reviews/island-packet-sp-cruiser/

I agree Bligh, probably more of a sailboat.

Just got an email from an engineer Island Packet. Turns out the ballast in the PY is 500 lbs less than the SP, and he said the full SP sail rig would make the boat too tender.

So my idea of turning it into a SP seems to be out, which is fine because I really didn't want to spend that much money.

He recommend a shorter mast and manual winches, and they are coming up with a price. It needs to be pretty cheap IMO since I probably won't be able to recoup much (if any) of it, and I have a feeling the Factory installation will not be inexpensive.

Any idea what a "cheap" main sail and jib might cost to install? $10000? $20000? I have no idea.

cardude01 said:

Just got an email from an engineer Island Packet. Turns out the ballast in the PY is 500 lbs less than the SP, and he said the full SP sail rig would make the boat too tender.

So my idea of turning it into a SP seems to be out, which is fine because I really didn't want to spend that much money.

He recommend a shorter mast and manual winches, and they are coming up with a price. It needs to be pretty cheap IMO since I probably won't be able to recoup much (if any) of it, and I have a feeling the Factory installation will not be inexpensive.

Any idea what a "cheap" main sail and jib might cost to install? $10000? $20000? I have no idea.

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I'm not a saily boat person, but I did sail a few dinghy's when I was young.

Even hi-tech sail boats can only make progress upwind towards their destination point (VMG) at about 4kts in perfect conditions.

Let's be positive and pencil in 3kts for your boat; or about 600revs idle on your engine or 1/2gal/hr or less?

And downwind?
Might give you a bit of a push and save that 1/2gal/hr.

Is it worth it?

Factory? If the hard points are already built into the boat, 30K. There's something to be said about it being a "factory" job, but now it won't be either an SP or a PY model, and this will probably limit the market further. There is a known value for an SP and a PY. There won't be a known value for a one-off hy-brid. Too good of a boat to take a chance. Maybe in 15 years.

healhustler said:

Factory? If the hard points are already built into the boat, 30K. There's something to be said about it being a "factory" job, but now it won't be either an SP or a PY model, and this will probably limit the market further. There is a known value for an SP and a PY. There won't be a known value for a one-off hy-brid. Too good of a boat to take a chance. Maybe in 15 years.

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Probably not worth doing now IMO.

I guess if you did this, we'd miss you, but you could always post on Cruisersforum.com!

cardude01 said:

Deal. Let's draw up the option contract now so we both have a contingency plan. What's that option worth?

����

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As is said in NY: That option is worth "A Dollar three eighty... Plus Tax"!

BTW - Masts preclude covered slips. Covered slips preclude thousands of eventual dollar expenses due to 24/7 exposures to the elements.

Happy Boating Daze! - Art

cardude01 said:

Just got an email from an engineer Island Packet. Turns out the ballast in the PY is 500 lbs less than the SP, and he said the full SP sail rig would make the boat too tender.

So my idea of turning it into a SP seems to be out, which is fine because I really didn't want to spend that much money.

He recommend a shorter mast and manual winches, and they are coming up with a price. It needs to be pretty cheap IMO since I probably won't be able to recoup much (if any) of it, and I have a feeling the Factory installation will not be inexpensive.

Any idea what a "cheap" main sail and jib might cost to install? $10000? $20000? I have no idea.

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I would agree with his recommendations. Check out his quote & suggestions for mast height, sail area, and standing rigging.

Then look around for sailboat that is totally thrashed but with decent sails with similar mast height and sail area and a tabernacle setup that will work in your forward cockpit area. Mast mounted manual halyard winches will minimise changes (costs) to your boat.
You can probably pick up something like this for not much more than $5,000.
Replacing all standing & running rigging with new will cost about the same, including labour. I'd recommend this on any older rig.
Mounting the mast and tabernacle is the unknown cost. It will depend on how well it suits your boat. Look closely at how the SP is set up, and see what the IP engineer recommends.
The forward cockpit makes your boat somewhat unique, and limits certain mast and tabernacle setups.
Other than that its just a bit of wiring for the masthead lights.

So yes - about 15 boat dollars would do it, IF you can find the right rig to suit the job. Trying to install the wrong one may cost triple that amount.

Truth be told most Trawler owners even ex sailors don't want to be bothered with sail. The other side of the coin is that a motor sailor is often if not usually a better boat(not necessarily a better cottage) in some important ways. The thing is aside from cost are you willing to expend the extra energy to use and maintain a sail rig even if only for steady and boost purposes?

What about a junk rig?

http://www.kastenmarine.com/junk_rig.htm

http://triloboats.blogspot.com/2012/02/free-standing-masts-and-tabernacles-who.html?m=1

Has some nice attributes: Free standing mast, no chain plates. Not much rigging. Cheap sails. Easy to reef. Sails downwind great. Doesn't sail to wind however but for get home and stability might be ok. Plus it looks cool !!

Man you guys are tough.

Why go through the dealer to get it rigged? Just get a good rigger to put a smaller rig on it. It will cost money for sure, but youll get some extra Hp out of it occasionally, it will be fun to use, and you'll have a 'get home' option.

Rustybarge said:

I'm not a saily boat person, but I did sail a few dinghy's when I was young.

Even hi-tech sail boats can only make progress upwind towards their destination point (VMG) at about 4kts in perfect conditions.

Let's be positive and pencil in 3kts for your boat; or about 600revs idle on your engine or 1/2gal/hr or less?

And downwind?
Might give you a bit of a push and save that 1/2gal/hr.

Is it worth it?

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Tell this guy about your "4 knots in perfect conditions" theory.

My vote would be to get a small sailboat if you want to go sailing.

Get home engines and twin engines are cheaper than sails .. I think?

Y'all aren't feeling my vibe...



A little more elaborate than what I had in mind, but cool nevertheless.

Better one.. Just the rear mast.

Where's Larry when I need him! ?

I'm feeling it, and am going to do it. A man's got to have a hobby right? Devlin, Roberts, Alden, Brewer, Garden, Monk, and on and on... There are lots of designs for doing this.

Your Roughwater would look cool with a sail rig. What do you think about the junk rig?

bligh said:

Tell this guy about your "4 knots in perfect conditions" theory.

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I gave his boat a speed of 4.5 kts upwind, tacking through 90 deg, that makes about 3kts VMG to destination waypoint.

Very generous in the circumstances, but maybe deeply flawed logic....:lol:

Wanna cruise - Get efficient, sea worthy motor boat.


Wanna sail - Get efficient, sea worthy sail boat.


Wanna do both, in same boat - Shop real hard to locate the correctly efficient, seaworthy, carefully engineer designed motor sailer.


Wanna try-to-turn your motor powered cruiser boat into a motor sailer - Open Your Wallet Real Wide!! And hope to hell it all works out well once you are underway...



PS: Easier to turn sail boat into motor cruiser... than to turn motor cruiser into sail boat. Less cost and work too!

cardude01 said:

Your Roughwater would look cool with a sail rig. What do you think about the junk rig?

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I like that the Junk rigs are very efficient, not sure it would suit the Roughwater design wise. I am considering a Gaff rig though and I am looking to a NA to help with this project.

Goeree 1099

Really like the above!

TF naysayers: I'm well aware the hull of the RW35 is not a sailboat hull, and I don't expect that kind of performance. I'm not a rich guy and I really like my boat as it is, just trying to have some fun, add some roll stability; and hoist the sails on a windy day. Why wouldn't I? Cheers!

Sail or power , the choice hassle is always the same.

Most sailors live IN the boat hull, most marine motorists live ON the boat, above deck.

Sure there are compromises , usually in LOA for comfort.

That is the big decision (besides seaworthyness and range) .

I would go for it . It sounds like that's what you want anyway . I don't think you could make any extra cash with it when you sell the boat but it might help the sell . I think your boat would look better with a sail rig with a short mast .Like bligh said it would be fun .

cardude01 said:

I like the idea of paravanes for stability, but I was trying to incorporate an alternate means of propulsion as well. I thought the sail rig, while expensive, would do a decent job at both. If I give up on the need/want for alternate propulsion I think paravanes are the best plan, if they can be installed on this boat that is.

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If you are looking for emergency sail power plan then perhaps a guy off the Paravanes mast to the bow for a jib. If ur looking for sail power for normal propulsion the cost of a rig will buy a tremendous amount of Diesel.

Truth is, for me, every time I try to improve on a designer's design I generally screw the pooch. Learned that lesson by buying hot rod parts from a speed shop, (gee I wonder what their motivation was, sell parts?). I tell youn men now, "Want a faster car, then buy it, what makes you think you can improve on stock economically"

Accually, seems to me you have a great boat. The nature of the beast is that you spend a small % of your time underweigh so just pull up to the pump, fill up, tie on your Spurs, hold on and get out there and enjoy your great boat.

Not that our Tolly tri cabin is at all optimum superstructure/deck design for adding a custom sail rig... I played with design that actually had a retractable (and fold down) main mast with hydraulically adjustable means for the mast, boom, and sail. After figuring costs involved as well as chance for design errors (such as Mule mentions in post #58) I scrapped the idea. Much of what Mule says in 58 is spot on!


Not trying to discourage you; feeling you would probably have a great time inventing and engineering and building your custom sail addition... just saying what my experience has been along the same lines and caution you that not everything may go as planned.

Boat builders usually spend millions$ on engineers and marine designers who perfect plans before building a boat... even then some designs have odd quirks and some simply fail.


Happy [sail] Boat Daze! - Art

I have a hard time leaving good enough alone. Keeps my synapses firing.