Replumbing fuel system...critique my design

Hey guys!

Been away for awhile trying to focus on employment as it truly is one of the only ways to get ahead in boat life

As spring is approaching, so is getting my fuel system replumbed before launch. I decided to get away from the polish capability. With two large filter sets and good additive, it sounds like an unnecessary complication and expense.

I do want to take everyone's advise and get the genset and propulsion separated out on dedicated feeds and returns. I think a set of 3 way valves will accomplish this. I can run either engine on one tank and switch over to another to manage fuel balance or if one filter set becomes plugged. I also can run the genset off the opposing tank underway if necessary.

Let me know your thoughts as everyone has awesome input so far!

That seems reasonable and simple. I'd use better valves then the ones pictured coming off your tank feeds.

I still think you have too many filters. Just need 2 (and the on-engine). Three way ball valves are expensive, make a manifold and use on/offs. I prefer Racors because you can see the condition of the fuel, the Fleetguards you will have to change on a schedule. They aren't cheap, either.

Port tank, valve, tee for sight gauge if you want one, tee to connect both tanks, valve, to isolate filters for changing, Racor, Racor, valve for isolating, on-engine.

Starboard tank, valve, tee, connect to second tee.

I like a crossover from tank to tank for balancing. Run return lines directly to the tanks with a valve to send the fuel to whichever side you wish. I always left the crossover open.

Xsbank said:

I still think you have too many filters. Just need 2 (and the on-engine). Three way ball valves are expensive, make a manifold and use on/offs. I prefer Racors because you can see the condition of the fuel, the Fleetguards you will have to change on a schedule. They aren't cheap, either.

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I agree, that's a lot of filters. Mine plumbs 2 tanks through a Fleetguard, Racor, and on engine Filter/separator. 3 seems plenty and simple seems good. I'm going to plumb in a Walbro pump and a valve or two for a polishing system pulling through the fleetgaurd. This will be very simple to do and should cost <$200. With this I'll also be able to transfer fuel from Tank to tank, as well as prime the system so it will have a few additional benefits. $150 of that is the pump, the rest for some fittings.

On the Fleetguards, they do make a clear bowl model #FS-1242B (for Bowl).
This is what I use and have recently found a source to buy them for <$13 each which is quite a bargain. Large capacity too, so maybe a once a year change including use as a polishing filter. You can also plumb in a Vacuum gauge to determine change intervals. I already have the gauge head on my Racor as an indicator, but that filter is just cruising along with the additional Fleetguard primary. I just picked up 4 spares at that price!

You shouldn't need a pump to transfer fuel, just a crossover. Unless you have a very powerful pump, capable of really stirring the fuel in the tank, you will not get "polishing."

Skinny said:

Hey guys!

Been away for awhile trying to focus on employment as it truly is one of the only ways to get ahead in boat life

As spring is approaching, so is getting my fuel system replumbed before launch. I decided to get away from the polish capability. With two large filter sets and good additive, it sounds like an unnecessary complication and expense.

I do want to take everyone's advise and get the genset and propulsion separated out on dedicated feeds and returns. I think a set of 3 way valves will accomplish this. I can run either engine on one tank and switch over to another to manage fuel balance or if one filter set becomes plugged. I also can run the genset off the opposing tank underway if necessary.

Let me know your thoughts as everyone has awesome input so far!

Click to expand...

Skinny, what program are using to make these designs?
Curious as it would helpful in making a diagram of my on-board network.

Xsbank said:

You shouldn't need a pump to transfer fuel, just a crossover. Unless you have a very powerful pump, capable of really stirring the fuel in the tank, you will not get "polishing."

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32GPH at 12PSI into a 60 gallon tank (2)...I just want to keep everything moderately clean before the final filters while running.. I won't need to run the engine to do the transfer function either.

Not a perfect (or expensive) method, but I'll feel better about my fuel.. Beats nothing.
A few hours of the pump running at the dock once a week should be fine for my piece of mind....YMMV

That's about 1/2 US gallon per minute which is about the rate I pee. I think you need a bigger pump.

Besides, what do you have in your tank that's so bad that you have to run your pump every week? Wouldn't it make more sense to just get the tank cleaned? It can go for years without getting any crud in it. Does North Carolina have a sh*tty fuel supply?

Anyway, it's certainly your prerogative, go crazy.

Xsbank said:

That's about 1/2 US gallon per minute which is about the rate I pee. .

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I can filter that, No problem. You never know when someone's gonna Pee in your fuel fill (or post)

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. S. Would it not be simpler to instal a large crossover pipe between the 2 tanks, have the tanks professionally cleaned and keep a good stock of filters on board?

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I was thinking the same thing.

My boats fuel system is simple.

Port engine is hard plumbed to the port tank
Starboard engine and generator are hard plumbed to the starboard tank.

We have a reversable fuel transfer pump for moving fuel between the tanks when necessary.

N4712 said:

Skinny, what program are using to make these designs?
Curious as it would helpful in making a diagram of my on-board network.

Click to expand...

I just screenshot the components and dumped it into Microsoft Paint...nothing fancy. Publisher would probably be easier but overkill for resolution.

I think I want to stay away from the polishing system. It adds expense and complication, I've decided to keep this basic with two major things in mind...keep the gen separate from the Perkins and redundancy on the filtration to maintain propulsion during a blockage. That was my takeaway from this discussion. Everything else is just gravy.

I'm OK with the price of the 3way valves and it does keep it idiot proof if I'm not the one throwing the valves. I will diagram out something with manifolds to see what it looks like. Trying to keep an open mind to everyone's suggestions.

I do plan on installing vacuum gauges on both sides no matter what I do so I can change filters before something critical happens. What is the micron rating on the FS-1242B?

The fuel system on my sporty is complex, I couldnt even start to make diagrams like this for it, impressive. I have 5 tanks and hold 1000 gallons, with a cleaning system that is either 120 volt or 12 volt (we only use the 12 volt pump for transfering fuel) and can move fuel from or to any tank or feed from any tank. I dont know how many feet of 5/8 inch fuel hose this takes but its a lot. The 120 v cleaning/transfer pump is a 1/2 hp gear rotor pump, it moves lots of fuel. The transfer is set up so that it is filtered befor it gets to the pump, with a double/switchable SeaPro 300 filter system. I like the Davco stuff. I like switchable duplex filters for each engine also, with vacuum gauges. But, I'm paranoid.

Also, I run my cleaning system a lot. At least once a day when I'm on the boat. I switch to a different tank everyday. I run it about 5 hours at a time. Your right, you just never know when someone will pee in your tank. I like this thread so I wont pee on it

About Racor 500's... on our 40'er we used the 500's and Bounty paper towels. The regular size rolls fit and are an inexpensive option for polishing versus Racor filters. DO NOT go cheap with a lesser brand. Buy Bounty.

The larger rolls won't fit so you'll have to remove some of the towels. That's why I suggested the standard size. I borrowed a pair of 500's when I polished the fuel in Seaweed a few years back. It worked.

There's probably a reason not to opt for Bounty but it worked for us. The 40'er had a Cummins tractor motor that my dad had marinized. I wish I'd paid more attention to that!!

Oh, and sneak peek and my beautiful new acquisition: (I'm so tickled I can hardly stand myself!)

You got me, Janice, what is it?

Xsbank said:

You got me, Janice, what is it?

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I'm thinking a muffler.

Skinny said:

What is the micron rating on the FS-1242B?

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27 from what I've sleuthed out. I imagine many of the fleetgaurds are similar.

I run a 10 micron downstream in my Racor.

It's the manifold... newly welded and beautiful. There will be no salt water in my engine and this is one component of the cooling system. (And I'd say I drifted the thread about as far off course as possible without bringing up anchors!

I will have to do some more research on filters. I'm satisfied with the price and availability to run the Fleetguards. I'm sure I can find a suitable filter, not really the issue. I want to make sure the plumbing looks good and will be reliable along with minimizing risks like sucking air into the Perkins from a leak in the genset...very good points that were brought up.

Lots of opinions but for my money I'd back RT.
The only point I'd make based on my experience is to build in a small accessible sump on each tank, before you start your cruise you simply need to crack the valve and draw off a small glass full to check/remove any sediment/water.
If you want an economical centrifuge buy a CAT prefilter with water/sediment drain.
K.I.S.S

Irish Rambler said:

build in a small accessible sump on each tank, before you start your cruise you simply need to crack the valve and draw off a small glass full to check/remove any sediment/water.

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My tanks are drawing from the top and are under the saloon decking. Taking them out for modification without a good reason like they are split and leaking from old age is not really feasible. Plus having someone TIG a sump in each one would probably cost more than the entire proposed Fleetguard setup. Am I interpreting your proposal correctly? I'm picturing a bottom draw sump as being the lowest point in the tank requiring some metal work and clearancing in the hull decking.

Apologies, I thought you were renewing the tanks and putting in a new system.
In the past I've careened the boat for 24 hrs once a year and then used a slow hand pump to 'Hoover' the floor of the tank at it's lowest point to remove old sediment etc.

No worries, I may not have stated the entire story. This is to revise a rather numb Mainship factory fuel system that only has one return and to add some redundancy to filtration since it only has one set of filters that is shared on the same feed line for the Perkins and genset which others have stated is a bad idea.

Although this does resemble one of my diagrams earlier in the thread, I think this one works best. Note that I do not know which guages, valves, or filters I am going with. I do own some already but this is the general idea. I didn't realize it but my Nextgen 3.5 engine has an electric pump and the circuit board has a jumper spot to purge it of air. Basically that would enable me to change a filter on the genset side even and purge air using that function with the Perkins running off the opposite tank. All with minimal effort and minimizing fuel spillage.

Why not have the engine feed come off one tank with parallel filters (if one plugs, switch to the second) and have the genset come off the other tank, then use a crossover? Gets rid of all those valves and the crossover will keep them level.

Tanks are just for storage, there is no need to draw off both tanks for the main engine?

Tank, valve, filter, filter, valve, engine. Return to either tank. Other tank, valve, filter, valve, return.
Valves on either side of the filter to isolate them so no air can get into the system while changing filter elements. Crossover with a valve at each tank.

I think that is the same number of valves as what I proposed.

Here's a thought guys.

Things that are less complex are less likely to fail.

Anybody thats EVER troubleshot a fuel issue on a diesel knows that one leaky connection on the suction side will cause your engine to stop in its tracks.

Might consider that.

Less connections, less valves might prove to be more reliable.

Less cool on TF, but more reliable at sea.

On/off valves, not three-ways, they are only there to isolate the filters for changing and to shut off the tank if something leaks or fails.

This system has served me well for years filters last a long time b/c most water and junk rolls down into the "nipple sump". No air b/c air rolls back up to the tanks. In all the filters and electric pump have quite clean fuel to deal with and water and sludge is removed not left in the bottom of the tanks.

There is a current thread on boatdiesel about redoing an ER and fuel system. There are many ways to plumb up the system. The choices, assuming good filters and valves are being used are simple, complicated or confusing.

sunchaser said:

There is a current thread on boatdiesel about redoing an ER and fuel system. There are many ways to plumb up the system. The choices, assuming good filters and valves are being used are simple, complicated and confusing.

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The trick, as I see it is to do the job of providing provide necessary capabilities with a minimum of parts and connections.

KISS works