How Reliable is your boat?

My prior boats were, for the most part, inshore boats, that were all heavily used and not well maintained before my purchase. I think I suffered most every mechanical failure imaginable and got towed in plenty of times.

I purchased my current boat new and have been meticulous about maintenance. In the six years and 2,000 + hours I have owned her, I have never had a cruise ending failure of any sort. In fact, I have had very few failures that I wasn't able to remedy on the spot, and none of them were of critical system. (The icemaker broke on a fishing trip, but I was able to diagnose the problem (no freshwater flow because the float bowl was stuck), the video card on one of my NN3D black boxes failed, but there are 3 in the network so it was only an inconvenience; one of four engine room blowers failed -- I ran with three and replaced on return; anchor windlass blew a 500 amp fuse, but I had a spare.)

Still, it is common (IME) to see what seem to be well maintained boats suffer a mission critical failure (a dockmate lost a transmission 100 miles offshore, a friend lost power to both ECM; another guy overheated his engine (s?), even though he had been running at low rpms), etc.

Between those vicarious experiences and my person experiences with prior boats, I can't help but be concerned by the prospect of a debilitating failure when I am days from anywhere. Do you all worry about that, or do you regard that sort of failure (ie, critical, that you can't repair) unlikely? I really wish I could stop worrying about it.

Good question. You don't mention if you have twin or single engines. I think worrying (continually checking systems, playing out 'what if' scenarios) actually is the key to being safe. I would keep it up. The challenge, imo, is to keep it in proportion and not let it overpower your spirit of adventure.

She is very reliable.

wor

I boat in remote parts of Alaska. I do not even know if towing is an option. It would be easier and cheaper too hire a floatplane to deliver a critical part to me than to tow my current boat.

I think of reliability in terms of...

1. Would a failure make me cancel, or end a trip.

2. Would a failure leave me stranded or worse.

That said I have had one or two cancelled, or ended early trips, and one tow but these were in trailerable size boats, spanning a decade plus of boating.

My current boat hasn't had either thing happen yet. That said, like you I carry spare everything, and have the tools and skills to fix almost anything at sea.

Having the experience to know when to press on with a failure or impending failure is priceless.


Many times I have proceeded on to a repair facility with the confidence that a system, engine will hold without serious damage. Other time I knew to shut down immediately and not go another inch till repaired or jury rigged.


So having the confidence to stay out of serious trouble or serious inconvenience and/or the ability to keep things going (fixed or jury rigged) is valuable for one not worry all the time.

Good question! I haven't had to actually worry about it yet, but it's been in the back of my mind lately, and I'll be faced with this question when I start using my new boat. What options are available if I have an un-repairable failure 50+ miles offshore (i.e., outside of my TowBoat US coverage)? Right now, I'm just thinking "Don't go that far out" but I know plenty of other people do it.

jb cruzan said:

Good question. You don't mention if you have twin or single engines. I think worrying (continually checking systems, playing out 'what if' scenarios) actually is the key to being safe. I would keep it up. The challenge, imo, is to keep it in proportion and not let it overpower your spirit of adventure.

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Twin engines (Cummins QSM 11's, 660 hp, with TwinDisc gears). So, in all probability losing an engine or transmission won't leave me stranded.

N4712 said:

She is very reliable.

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So, when you are way offshore do you worry at all about the possibility of a failure? Even though I haven't had a major failure yet, and even though my engines and transmissions seem to have a great reputation, and even though I maintain per schedule and inspect thoroughly and regularly (I am confident that I will notice the first signs of any problem), I can't help but worry about the possibilities of failure. I believe my fear is irrational and if actual, relevant, statistical data were available to me I might worry a lot less (it is not, hence this thread). I like your response -- what is your secret?

MrJim said:

Good question! I haven't had to actually worry about it yet, but it's been in the back of my mind lately, and I'll be faced with this question when I start using my new boat. What options are available if I have an un-repairable failure 50+ miles offshore (i.e., outside of my TowBoat US coverage)? Right now, I'm just thinking "Don't go that far out" but I know plenty of other people do it.

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At least the tow guys will come out for you, for a healthy charge. I don't know what would happen if I got stuck hundreds of miles from any port. I guess I would find some tow boat that could get there in a couple days and charge me $100 per mile.

The tow companies will generally get you if they can, otherwise they pay someone who can up to a certain amount.

Call your tow company to get it explained in great detail.

psneeld said:

The tow companies will generally get you if they can, otherwise they pay someone who can up to a certain amount.

Call your tow company to get it explained in great detail.

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I have asked this question of SeaTow and TowBoatUS. Their answer is basically that they would do what they could, but that their boats are not don't have the range, etc., to make a tow that could require multiple days.

Excellent topic. I've owned a boat for 30+ years, all on lakes until 3 years ago. The last two and a half years we've covered over 40,000 miles on the water. Yes, I know it sounds like a crazy number but it's our number. I've never experienced such a failure and never had a tow. However, I remain very conscious of that possibility. Sometimes fear or concern is a great motivator. While some failures perhaps are unavoidable, most are not. In offshore cruising, fuel is the biggest risk so filtering and even centrifuge is the protection. Coastal, perhaps grounding, which on the ICW is easy to get towed and in Alaska not so much. However, less chance in Alaska too. There logs might be more the issue. So remain aware of the risks where you are. Then there are the mechanical and electrical aspects. If it has a problem, fix it now. Religiously follow all manufacturers recommendations on maintenance if not more frequent. Keep spares and do it systematically. Have a list of the spares you should have. Some builders even have recommended lists. Inspect your engines. Before undertaking a long trip, make sure all is good. Take the extra minutes at the dock. Have good warning systems. As an example, if the engine temperature rises out of range there's a problem. Might be an easy fix if identified the moment the rise starts. Might strand you if not. We're very conscious of hose condition and of impellers. We keep an eye on those in use and our spares. I've known someone to have an impeller become brittle and break, go to their spares and find out they were all old and brittle.

We never let the fact we haven't had a problem influence our thought about the possibility other than to remind us to continue the diligence. But if you suddenly become over confident, rest assured you'll make a mistake.

I was about 25 and had never changed a tire. Everyone said you should practice. I said, I'll read the instructions and learn when necessary. By 25 I'd begun to think I was beyond it happening, modern tire technology and all. Well, it was a stormy wintry day, bitter cold and windy, early morning and I was returning from a business trip. I had also loaded the trunk with boxes of product, every box that would fit. And the back seat was filled with my luggage and more boxes. So, task one was emptying the trunk but cardboard and rain mix poorly so moved them all to the front seat of my car. Now to get to the tire and tools. Of course the tire was a small one, but at least it had air in it. I got it out, got the jack. This part was really simple. But before jacking the car up I was smart enough even to remove the lug nuts while the wheel was still on the ground. Unfortunately, whoever put the wheel on was not smart enough not to over tighten with a power wrench. It seemed like it took me days to remove the lug nuts. I had to put myself in many different positions to get enough force and I am a pretty large and relatively strong man. In real time it was probably 5 minutes. Ok, now jacking and changing. This was the easy part. Put the removed wheel in the trunk. Keep in mind of course it would not fit where the spare was. Put the jack away. Start moving boxes back to the trunk, but now with the wheel there they wouldn't all fit. Leave the passenger side in the front with boxes, get in the drivers seat soaking wet. I'd long ago given up on the idea of being anything but drenched and freezing. It felt again like I drove for hours before seeing any signs of a gas station of any sort. Finally, probably after a ten minute drive, I see one and exit. I first just pull under the shelter to rearrange some things and dig down to some clothes in the back seat as boxes were on top of the luggage. The girls inside and the old man there too couldn't help but laugh at me. I did go buy a roll of paper towels on the way to the rest room and dried myself with them while changing. Back out and on my way to the office. Fortunately I'm paranoid about being late so still had time not to be. Two lessons learned. First, I can have a flat tire. Second, next time someone asks if I can take a few boxes of samples with me, without hesitation I will say "Ship them."

MYTraveler said:

I have asked this question of SeaTow and TowBoatUS. Their answer is basically that they would do what they could, but that their boats are not don't have the range, etc., to make a tow that could require multiple days.

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With QSM's kept in good shape you are highly unlikely to have reliability issues resulting in the need for a tow. Even if you have the dreaded exhaust manifold leak you will get lots of mileage after the leak is detected. I know, as my last boat had those engines. However, you are still faced with the possibility of damage to running gear making your boat do nothing more than bob around in the waves.

That is what I worry about when I cross the Gulf of Alaska in the dark or near dark. Anywhere besides open water I rely on my 40 hp dinghy to get me to a safe anchorage. I keep a 40 gal gas tank on deck just for that development but it has never been needed. YET!

MYTraveler said:

I have asked this question of SeaTow and TowBoatUS. Their answer is basically that they would do what they could, but that their boats are not don't have the range, etc., to make a tow that could require multiple days.

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I guess it depends where you are....the company I work for has towed over 100 miles offshore but know other franchises have lesser equipment....however Sea Tow will pay up to $5000 and BOATUS up to $3500 to someone to tow you. Above that and you pay but I would hope many insurance companies will fill in some of it.

MYTraveler said:

So, when you are way offshore do you worry at all about the possibility of a failure?

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When I think of the boat failures that I have experienced offshore, they have all been annoying (stupid owner tricks mostly), but repairable while wallowing around wishing I was somewhere else than a hot engine room.

When I think of the failures that made me want to change my underwear, it's been things like a steering failure while running through Deception Pass (very narrow, high current) or loss of all controls while crossing a very rough bar when the pilothouse windows were blown out. Every scary one that I can think of happened in close quarters, and involved losing control of the vessel temporarily.

I think the best way to reduce the worry is to really know your boat and its systems. Doing the bulk of your own maintenance helps tremendously as does being able to find where you hid the spare part that you need!

psneeld said:

I guess it depends where you are....the company I work for has towed over 100 miles offshore but know other franchises have lesser equipment....however Sea Tow will pay up to $5000 and BOATUS up to $3500 to someone to tow you. Above that and you pay but I would hope many insurance companies will fill in some of it.

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To avoid confusion, SeaTow and BoatUS will tow at least 100nm, maybe 200nm. My concerns are more what happens if I am fishing the offshore banks halfway down baja -- 400nm from either Cabo or Ensenada?

MYTraveler said:

To avoid confusion, SeaTow and BoatUS will tow at least 100nm, maybe 200nm. My concerns are more what happens if I am fishing the offshore banks halfway down baja -- 400nm from either Cabo or Ensenada?

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They will pay someone to come tow you up to an agreed upon amount. Whether a local fisherman or a professional tow craft dispatched from where ever.

sure at some point you are paying out of pocket......name of the game....at some point you could get coverage through some insurance company if willing to pay the premiums....

psneeld said:

They will pay someone to come tow you up to an agreed upon amount. Whether a local fisherman or a professional tow craft dispatched from where ever.

sure at some point you are paying out of pocket......name of the game....at some point you could get coverage through some insurance company if willing to pay the premiums....

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I am not so focused on the cost of the two as not having anyone to call. I can imagine a satphone call and them saying we will get back to you, and them calling back hours if not a day or two later, with one take-it or leave it offer. Exactly what I am trying to avoid.

psneeld said:

They will pay someone to come tow you up to an agreed upon amount. Whether a local fisherman or a professional tow craft dispatched from where ever.

sure at some point you are paying out of pocket......name of the game....at some point you could get coverage through some insurance company if willing to pay the premiums....

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If you're crossing the Atlantic and 800 miles from shore, towing might well be problematic. If conditions are too dangerous, it could be. But otherwise there are very few places you can't get towed by someone. You should always start through the tow company you're covered by (and we have both) because that will get you some assistance with the cost even if they can't help you there. Almost any marina knows of people who tow in their area.

BandB said:

If you're crossing the Atlantic and 800 miles from shore, towing might well be problematic. If conditions are too dangerous, it could be. But otherwise there are very few places you can't get towed by someone. You should always start through the tow company you're covered by (and we have both) because that will get you some assistance with the cost even if they can't help you there. Almost any marina knows of people who tow in their area.

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Perhaps I worry too much (hence my original question), but I have visions of trying to contact anyone at the nearest Marina (which may be Mag Bay in about the middle of Baja California), with no phone numbers to anyone at that local "marina" and SeaTow telling me that it is out of their range but they will call me back if they find someone.

By the way, I saw a personalized California license plate "B and B" Small world if that is you.

My guess is you should be dealing with your hull insurance company.

Assistance towing was never designed to cover worldwide.

Transoceanic in a $100,000 or less boat might be one you and the insurance company might walk away from mid ocean....but at some value....a tow job is worth it.

Being self sufficient is the key. Knowing how to "fix it" is the next key factor. I helped change a lot of tires, befor I was 13. But, I learned how to fix a tire on a tractor so that I could keep planting, when I was 14. Taught to me by a Mexican field hand. The tractor was an OLD Stieger 4WD with an 855 Cummins. Big tires. The flat one had fallen off the rim. Even tho the engine had a compressor and I had an air hose (had been re airing the tire for awhile) I could not get the tire to reseat on the rim. Hecter plugged the hole with twisted cotton from an old rag, the strands he coated with gasket sealer, because that was in the tool box, he hooked the air chuck to the valve, sprayed my ether (wouldnt start without) into the tire cavity and then made a pass across the tire with it. Lit it with his zippo and the tractor jumped several inches when it exploded. Tire was seated, air was going in, life was good, no ass eatin tonite for not getting finished. There is no substute for experience. All the book larnin in the world wont help you if you havent actually done something.

The boat we have in the PNW is a 42 year old, solidly built, twin-engine boat. Despite the age we feel quite confident in this boat in our coastal waters. We've needed the spare engine four times during the last 17 years for various reasons, three for cooling issues and one for a mistake I made during a fuel transfer. But each time we simply continued the run on one and resolved the problem afterwards.

With the exception of the main engines and their drive trains the only other thing on the boat that if it failed could cause a significant problem is the fresh water pump. Which is why we carry a spare. The boat has two heads and two independent toilet/holding tank systems. The boat was built long before the advent of today's environmental requirements so if we had a problem with a holdling tank system we can valve each toilet directly overboard if we had to.

There is sufficient redundancy in the navigation equipment (other than the radar) that a failure of a plotter or radio would not be an inconvenience.

The generator is very old so it's anybody's guess how much life it has left in it but other than having to have the starter completely rebuilt it's been surprisingly (to me) reliable. And if it failed (which it has a couple of times when the starter acted up) it will be inconvenient but we can continue the kind of cruisees we make today without it.

Were we going to take an extended cruise, say for a few months to SE Alaska, there are some things we would most likely replace or overhaul before embarking on something like this. But for the year-round weekend cruises and once-a-year two or three week vacation cruise, we don't worry much about the boat's reliability.

We are, however, very much aware of the age of some of the boat's systems, so there is always a bit of "will it work" apprehension when we flip a swtich or push a button.

In the not-very-distant future we will start boating in a totally different environment, one we have no experience in whatsoever. We have surpreme confidence in the boat because it's brand new. Our apprehension and lack of confidence in this undertaking is not with the hardware but with the sofware. In other words, us.

MYTraveler said:

So, when you are way offshore do you worry at all about the possibility of a failure? Even though I haven't had a major failure yet, and even though my engines and transmissions seem to have a great reputation, and even though I maintain per schedule and inspect thoroughly and regularly (I am confident that I will notice the first signs of any problem), I can't help but worry about the possibilities of failure. I believe my fear is irrational and if actual, relevant, statistical data were available to me I might worry a lot less (it is not, hence this thread). I like your response -- what is your secret?

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No, not at all. Maybe me first time we took the boat home which we had made a mistake in the fuel system and were under wing engine power for 5 minutes. Otherwise we got bigger things to worry about, like what's for dinner.

MYTraveler said:

Perhaps I worry too much (hence my original question), but I have visions of trying to contact anyone at the nearest Marina (which may be Mag Bay in about the middle of Baja California), with no phone numbers to anyone at that local "marina" and SeaTow telling me that it is out of their range but they will call me back if they find someone.

By the way, I saw a personalized California license plate "B and B" Small world if that is you.

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Definitely not us. But use the fears to generate positive actions, to prepare. Think of what you would do in an emergency in the places you're preparing to go. One of my fears was to be hours or days from shore and a medical emergency. So we both trained as did others with us for Medical Person in Charge plus we subscribed to a service so we can reach doctors and get guidance at any time, and do have on board a full medical kit.

If you have Active Captain, you have marina phone numbers. Look at TowBoat US and SeaTow's maps. Ask them what they do if you're outside Mag Bay. You're only about 200 nm from Cabo San Lucas there. Plenty of help to come from Cabo San Lucas. If you're inside it, there are sources of assistance. If nothing else, other fishermen will get you to safety.

Don't let the fears defeat you. Let them inspire you to solutions.

I have a competent guardian angel, so all my automobiles' and boats' incapacitating failures have arisen in the garage or the berth, and all boat groundings (six of them) have been on a rising tide. (This is since the 1960s.) The only incapacitating failure on the Coot is when the universal joints for the propeller shaft fell apart in the berth when nearing completion of docking; no harm done.

At some point you have to go local. There may not be one number that does it all.

People will generally help out in an emergency.

It would probably be a really good idea to learn spanish if you atr going to Mexico.

That and be self sufficient, which I think you are doing.

With redundant drive trains there is not a whole lot that will disable your boat, so you can generally always make it to a safe place. Then its a matter of getting parts.

A buddy of mine drove his tender approx 40 miles back to port to go get a starter once on his single engine boat.

Almost forgot, GEEZ. I myself back in 2003 when I was doing my first Gulf of Alaska crossing hit a log doing 26 knots. Took out both props. I made it very slowly to a little bay called Icy bay (Google that one ) and called for help. Well a pilot flying by heard me and relayed messages back to the little town of Yakutat. From there I hired a floatplane and a diver to bring me out a set of new props which I air cargo's out of Seattle.

So yes, Bad things happen, but with a little creativness we can get help.
Fast forward to 2015 and things would be allot different. I have satellite communications. No relaying necessary.

Greetings,
Our vessel is 110% reliable...until something breaks. So I break down 500 miles from shore/help. Simply a prepaid Viking funeral...

Owning an older, less than perfectly maintained boat, and having no tow service available in this part of the world, we have to depend on other means of assistance. So far that has worked out.

We have to be fairly self sufficient, - knowing all systems on the boat intimately, and carrying a good selection of spare parts and tools. Keeping it simple also makes it easier with being self sufficient.

When there is no tow service, and don't see any other boats all day while cruising, you have a different perspective than someone who knows assistance is just a phone call away.

If you're crossing an ocean there are ships with cranes that have been know to pick you up it might cost a far amount but you don't have to scuttle your boat. They are always moving big parts around the world.