Volvo vs. Cummins

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chester613

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Nordic Tug and a few other mfg. went from Cummins to Volvo engines in the 2005 area. They say it was a decision based on emissions. Who knows?

My question is this:
Is a Volvo engine as good as a Cummins? I heard there is more maintenance on a Volvo, plus the actual parts needed are more expensive. Any comments?
 
Promises to be a lively thread but in my own personal opinion, if you're looking at 2005 and newer I would go with either engine. Volvo gets a bad rap on the legacy engine lack of support but last I checked there's no Ford support for the perennial favorite Lehman engine either. Depending upon your age the boat will either be sold or your heirs problem before parts availability ever becomes an issue. I've heard the cost issue but there's not too many parts required on a well maintained Diesel engine to begin with.
 
Just posting to get a notice when people start chiming in. This app won't let me just subscribe to the thread.
 
Volvo gets a bad rap on the legacy engine lack of support but last I checked there's no Ford support for the perennial favorite Lehman engine either....
Tangential comment: the Ford Lehman is well supported by the Smiths of "American Diesel", Bob Smith was VP of Lehman, wrote the intro for the Lehman manual. I did buy one part, the FWC circulation pump, from a Ford tractor dealer, but doubt shopping at the Ford dealer for parts will work any better than visiting your Volvo dealer .
Back to normal transmission...
 
My Bayliner has Cummins engines. I know on baylinerownersclub.org you will find near-unanimous complaints about lack of support and expensive parts for Volvo engines. I am not speaking from personal experience. Do your own research. I chose my boat with Cummins vs Hinos for parts and qualified mechanics. To me that is every bit as important as the engine itself.
 
One thing of note is that it's my understanding that the Volvo engines were designed from the outset to be marine engines. Pretty much all the others are automotive diesels marinized for marine service. What kind of advantages that gives Volvo engines I could not say. But based on what I hear from aquaintences who have Volvo engines in their boats, they are outstanding engines.

The parts availability, parts prices and manufacturer support may be problematic in some instances, but this is not a reflection on the quality of the engines themselves.
 
One thing of note is that it's my understanding that the Volvo engines were designed from the outset to be marine engines. Pretty much all the others are automotive diesels marinized for marine service. What kind of advantages that gives Volvo engines I could not say. But based on what I hear from aquaintences who have Volvo engines in their boats, they are outstanding engines.

The parts availability, parts prices and manufacturer support may be problematic in some instances, but this is not a reflection on the quality of the engines themselves.

Marin has stated the crux of the issue well. And as I read this thread, interested in seeing everyone's opinion, I realize that intended use of a boat becomes a large factor.

Thus, in the kind of cruising a Nordic Tug would do, there is NO need for a bunch of spare parts ahead of time.

Therefore, the cost of parts and/or maintenance is NOT significant, compared to the cost of everything else.
 
Marin has stated the crux of the issue well. And as I read this thread, interested in seeing everyone's opinion, I realize that intended use of a boat becomes a large factor.

Thus, in the kind of cruising a Nordic Tug would do, there is NO need for a bunch of spare parts ahead of time.

Therefore, the cost of parts and/or maintenance is NOT significant, compared to the cost of everything else.

I beg to differ. The cost of parts is expensive when you can't get them. Volvo has shut the door on many of the older common series engines. No replacement parts being manufactured in many instances. Volvo engines enjoy a good reputation in everything other than support.
By comparison the Ford Lehman is much easier to source parts for.
 
Think Volvo makes a reasonable product. Would rent a boat that has a Volvo engine. Would never own one. One of the boats I chartered for my business was repowered with Volvos. Parts availability for those Volos was horrible and they were currently manufactured models. I expect the manufacturer to make a premium on OEM parts but have them available in days. If your going to get obscene prices for parts that take weeks to a month to get, that's ridiculous. Maybe their business model has changed more recently, but nobody seems to be claiming that.

I like Cummins. They occasionally break and need parts just like all the rest. The parts aren't inexpensive, but then nobodies are. The difference is there seems to be more stock avilable and if the regional distribution point is out, within a day or two you can have it from somewhere.....with a hefty freight bill.

If you only cruise locally, being without your boat for a week or two may be an annoying inconvenience. If cruising down the coast, waiting a week for a part may seem like forever. If the boat of your dreams comes along with Volos, guess you buy it. If two identical boats are avilable for about the same money, take the one with the Cummins.

Ted
 
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The volvo engines in boats our sizes are not boat specific, they are simply marinized diesel engines. My opinion is that there engineers are all knomes. The original designing engineer may have a good idea but then it goes to committee and comes back as some Rube Golburg thing. I mean an electric clutch on a super charger and a turbo sized to big for low speed operation, on the same engine, geez !!!
 
It will be interesting to see if Volvo's penchant for discontinuing marinization parts carries over to the IPS drives and associated diesels. The base engines for these setups appear to be from their industrial lines, but after coolers, RW pumps etc hard to know how long they will be around.

Volvo marine engines are quite popular in Europe, what do you hear in Ireland in this regard Richard?
 
I had a boat back in 2009 or so with a Volvo E6, or at least I think that was the engine model. It was a modern common rail engine with turbo. One crank sensor failed under warranty, but other than that it was trouble free. However parts we extremely expensive. My general rule of thumb was to imagine the highest possible price for a particular part, then double it. That usually got me pretty close, but I was still surprised a few times.

I think it's summed up well in two previous points:

- If you aren't going long distance cruising and hence don't need to stock pile parts, the parts cost is not that huge in the grand scheme of things.

- If the boat you want has a Volvo, I wouldn't let that stop the purchase. But if you have a choice between boats with Volvo and with Cummins, I'd favor the Cummins too.
 
Cummins powered trucks outnumber Volvo powered trucks by maybe 100:1 or more in the US, this speaks volumes in itself and insures parts availability both OEM and aftermarket way into the future.
 
I have owned both in boats, a Volvo TAMD41 in a Camano and a Cummins 6BT5.9 in our Monk 36. I had no mechanical problems with either about 4 years each. In the US Cummins parts are available in more places than the Volvo and probably less expensive, I never did a comparison. Both are excellent engines, if all else equal I'd go with the Cummins.
 
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My trawler is powered by an older (2003) MD2030 and it has been rock solid and reliable--never a problem.
 
My 17-year old KAD44P Volvo (260hp out of only 3.6 liters, 24-valve, turbo and supercharger, electronic controls, 3900 RPM at WOT) has 6,000 hours on it. I've never had any trouble getting engine parts, and have had to replace a number of them over the years. Modern common-rail Volvos like the D6 are considerably more robust than the 40-series.

The Cummins ISB (275 hp, 5.9 liters, 24-valve, electronic controls) in my 17-year old truck is a dependable brute, but towing the boat some 75K miles so far I use it hard, and I've had to replace a thing or two on it as well.

Still, I'd probably choose Cummins in a next boat if I had the choice.
 
Nordic Tug and a few other mfg. went from Cummins to Volvo engines in the 2005 area. They say it was a decision based on emissions. Who knows?

My question is this:
Is a Volvo engine as good as a Cummins? I heard there is more maintenance on a Volvo, plus the actual parts needed are more expensive. Any comments?

I am only a year into owning my first Volvos TAMD61As the boat is a 1989 but form my research the engines are 1987

no issues so far but have heard the same from other Volvo owners that support and parts are hard to come by

Last week I replaced every hose clamp in the engine room with the newer style stronger clamps and so far about 20% of all the hoses

have a few friends on my dock that have the cummins and they like them
 
Cummins powered trucks outnumber Volvo powered trucks by maybe 100:1 or more in the US, this speaks volumes in itself and insures parts availability both OEM and aftermarket way into the future.
First, let me say that I have never owned a Volvo diesel but I did have a pair of Volvo gassers which I never had a problem with. I have had, however, several single Cummins and several pairs of Cummins diesels which I have grown to love. (No problems whatsoever!) Brooksie's quote about Cummins powered trucks carries a lot of weight with me as those guys put hundreds of thousands of hours on their trucks, let them idle for long periods of time, etc and still love them.

I now find myself with my first set of Yanmars (440s) and am anxiously awaiting the wisdom of this purchase.:blush:
 
Marin is correct; Volvo diesel engines are dedicated marine engines. From the Spring/Summer 1982 issue of Trawler Cruiser Yacht magazine: "Volvo makes the only major line of mid-size marine diesels that are designed exclusively as marine-use power plants." It's true that parts are difficult to find and cost triple that of Cummins or Cats, but they are easy to work on. Case in point-both raw water pumps are located up high where you can easily access them. On one Cummins engine I know of, you must move a motor mount and jack up the engine to get the clearance to remove the raw water pump. Not DIY friendly.
 
It will be interesting to see if Volvo's penchant for discontinuing marinization parts carries over to the IPS drives and associated diesels. The base engines for these setups appear to be from their industrial lines, but after coolers, RW pumps etc hard to know how long they will be around.

Volvo marine engines are quite popular in Europe, what do you hear in Ireland in this regard Richard?

I'd say 70% of new boats are Volvo because they offer a great deal to boat builders ' pay us when you sell it', 20% Yanmar and the other 10% divided between Man and Cat in the bigger boats, and least popular of all Cummins.
 
Volvo produces some well engineered engines. But all engine makes require support, none are perfect all the time. What you have to understand is that Volvo has a different kind of support network than just about every other diesel mfg, and it can create some conflicts of interest that may cause costly surprise. This can be a little difficult to articulate, but let me try.

In the US, Volvo actually contracts with their dealer network to not just provide support and repairs like other mfg, but to actually represent Volvo themselves. Unlike other mfgs, they do not actually staff much if any direct representation. You can't really call Volvo to discuss a more complicated situation such as a latent engine defect. Yes, Volvo has a common support number, but it's really just a direct call forward to a local dealer. If you don't like the support you received from the dealer, your only recourse is to call a different dealer, not Volvo.

This arrangement puts the dealer in the position of having to champion the customer. That's what they are supposed to be doing, but not surprisingly they will first and foremost put their own interests first. That's human nature right. There is no tie breaker where you can speak to the mfg directly.

That probably seems like splicing hairs to most, but it can hurt. For example, had a pair of engines that had a latent defect that caused piston failures. The problem started while the engine were under warranty, but continued after the warranty was up. There was a technical bulletin that noted that upon a piston failure, it was recommended to change out a culprit part in all cylinders, not just the failed one. However, the bulletin was not searchable in Volvos system as it was published prior to Volvos online system implementation. so the dealer did not initially see it and so pistons kept failing after the engine went out of warranty because they were not repaired to Volvos specs while in warranty. This created a conflict of interest between Volvo and the dealer.

The dealers position is that it was Volvos fault, not theirs. Not entirely unreasonable. Volvo would just tell the dealer that it was their responsibility. From the customers perspective, there is no avenue to talk to Volvo. You recourse is to talk to another dealer, who has absolutely zero interest in taking responsibility for another dealers issues. This is where Volvos dealer model is so different, than every other mfg. The dealer is contracted to be that layer of mfg support, but it's too much of a conflict of interest with their own role as a dealer to do so. In my case, it meant in the real world that I got screwed out of about $20k of what should have been in warranty coverage because the dealer simply stated that Volvo would not stand behind engines that were out of warranty.

Mine is just one example, but it can happen.

This is why I won't own another Volvo, just out of principle. I got far enough with Volvo that they knew that the situation existed, but even then would not get involved. Yes parts costs for Volvo are sky high, but I think the real risk is that you may find a real life situation where support is just not going to be provided. It's worth noting that the dealer, Coastal Marine in Seattle is not an evil dealer. In fact Denny, their service mgr was about the most honest hard working guy you would ever meet. I say this even after getting the full bend over experience. The real culprit here is a model that at its heart is unworkable and that is Volvos responsibility.

Hopefully this drawn out example paints an accurate picture why Volvos support model will never be able to match just about any other mfg.
 
On one Cummins engine I know of, you must move a motor mount and jack up the engine to get the clearance to remove the raw water pump. Not DIY friendly.

That might be the 5.9 6BTA. However, I believe that if you replace the stock Sherwood pump with one of Tony Athen's SeaMax pumps, that might obviate that issue. (Or, I hope so since I did so).
 
dwhatty is correct. The 5.9 series is like the 6-71's were. They are everywhere and parts are and will be available for YEARS.
 
Heartburn in my future?

I had a Beneteau ST 34 with Cummins 5.9 - ran with no issues.
My Captain made us upgrade to a ST 44 with twin VP D-4's......
We will see as they say........
 
The marinised versions of Volvo are simply truck engines, for example the D4 series are found in the FL4 truck, D6 in the FL6, D10 in the FL 10 etc.
One thing is crucial with a Volvo is to keep correct coolant mixture in all the time, failure will lead to a perforated cylinder liner on No 1 piston where the flow of water from the water pump hits the cylinder liner.
Volvo engines are 'blown' to extract the maximum power per cylinder.
I had 4 trucks in our fleet,a Volvo company car which rusted, an outboard that never ran properly, each one needed major surgery, the trucks only made 120-160K miles, we never bought any more Volvo products.
Non marine parts from a plant/agricultural/motor factor are always cheaper.
Volvo give preferential rates to boat builders knowing perfectly well they'll recoup the money on service and spares.
That's just my own experience, you must make your own mind up.
 
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I wouldn't buy a boat with Volvos. Just my opinion...and the reasons have already been stated. One thing I think y'all are placing too much emphasis on is whether the engine was a "dedicated" marine engine. I think what is important is that the manufacturer was the one who did the marinizing. Cummins manufactures their engines as well as marinizes them. So does Cat and Volvo. The venerable Ford Lehman was not marinized by Ford....but still a highly regarded engine. Yanmar manufactures most of their marine engines although some in the mid HP range were farmed out to BMW for emissions reasons.

Walt, your 440hp Yanmars are fine engines. Sometimes you do run into high cost parts though. One thing I thought was interesting is a buddy of mine has a Mainship Pilot 30 similar to mine. He has a 4LH engine...I had the 4LHA.....That "A" in my model number was a lot more significant than I thought(there are also 6LY and 6LYA in your engine line...I do not know if they carry the same weight). The "A" in my case stood for AMERICA. The trade lobby was not thrilled with these engines coming over here fully assembled from Japan. So the "A" models would come over to the US as short blocks and then they were outfitted by American companies. What does that mean???? A raw water pump for my 4LHA was about $500....a raw water pump for his 4LH(absent the "A") was almost $1200. Same engine...differently sourced accessories. I wouldn't sweat it if I didn't have the "A"...but it would be nice!!! All great engines!!!!
 
Another vote for go with the big C if you have a choice. If you get stuck with the V not the end of the world. Whatever you do stay away from the Y and if you want better go with the JD.
 
The Yanmar 6LYA are good motors, The 6LY2A STP (440hp)...not so much. If overpropped at all, the 6LY2A can rapidly become an "explode-a-motor" I believe there are members of this group that have personal experience with dropping valves on the 6LY2A. The boat next to me dropped a valve summer before last on his 6LY2A. One motor was replaced and the one that hadn't failed had a new head installed. One "feature" of the 6LY2A 440 is that the block has been bored out from the 6LYA, the liners have been removed and the cylinder walls hardened. The 6LY2A cannot be rebuilt if it drops a valve and damages the cylinder wall. Hinckley Yachts issued a recall for boats with the 6LY2A installed to change out the valves.

To Yanmar's credit, They stood behind the 10 year old motors on the boat next to me. Once he mentioned the known valve problems on the 6LY2A, they became helpful.

I had a 6LY2A STP 440 on my last boat, I reduced the pitch on the prop to ensure the motor could reach rated rpm plus a little. I also installed an egt gauge to help monitor temps. As far as I know, that engine is still running fine.

I know several guys with Volvos on my dock, They seem to be reliable and run well. They always the win the contest when we start complaining about the price of parts. I thought Cummins parts were high priced, but Volvo makes Cummins look cheap.
 
From what I understand, Nordic Tugs went with the Volvo engine in their 32's and 26's since the larger Cummins engine would not fit in the engine room. I am not sure if there was some redesign of the engine compartment or main salon cabin sole of the 32 at the time, but that is what they told me. Cummins engines are still being installed in many other NT's.
 
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