Taking the Plunge

Jim Gandee · Feb 24, 2015

Here's an example of a beautiful live aboard boat that, I believe, is very reasonably priced. It's not a trawler but it sure is a roomy, comfortable boat!

https://picasaweb.google.com/rkrupk...?authkey=Gv1sRgCIXT5NCg2PunKg&feat=directlink

frgeorgeh · Feb 24, 2015

Marin said:
No, he has not given the price range they are hoping to stay within.

I'm a little embarrased to say but hey, but it is what it is. We are need in stay in the 40 k to 60k range.

I realize this greatly reduces our choices but that is the way it is. That is why I was so excited about this Marine Trawler. It belongs to a captain and was used in his day charter biz. He was the only driver and it shows.

Advertised price for the vessel is 59k. We offered 42,900. He told the broker he had to get 55k for it. He seems real sure the survey will come back clean.

Anyway, that is where we are right now. I'd love to have that Fleming 55 on the back of the latest Passage maker magazine but that just ain't in the cards.

BruceK · Feb 24, 2015

Don`t be embarrassed, not even a little. Don`t take too much notice of "Got to get 55K", "Mate, it owes me 55K" etc.
If you agreed the price, and you think it`s high, check the survey, hard. Remember, the seller told you "the survey will come back clean". If it doesn`t,the basis for the agreed price does not exist.
There are 2 prices for a boat, one before survey and one after. In my case the after one was 20K less, and still not enough. The agreed price before was 15K under ask. Warning: occasionally, a seller will not negotiate post survey.

Art · Feb 24, 2015

Don't be shy my Good Friar... 40 to 60 K ain't chump change, especially in cash. That is a very respectful sum of capital to place into a boat... particularly your first boat. There are plenty of good condition 34' to 40' boats in that price range. The secret is finding them and recognizing them when you come across one.

You checking "Craigs List" diligently (i.e. day after day after day) in your area and areas nearby? Look under the "By-Owner Only" section and be ready to make calls.

I'm going to send you a PM.

Cheers! Art

frgeorgeh · Feb 24, 2015

Art said:
.

You checking "Craigs List" diligently (i.e. day after day after day) in your area and areas nearby? Look under the "By-Owner Only" section and be ready to make calls.

I'm going to send you a PM.

Cheers! Art

I have not checked Craigslist in a while. Good idea. Yes, please. Feel free to PM me.

FF · Feb 28, 2015

Advertised price for the vessel is 59k. We offered 42,900.

What made you think the vessel was so overpriced?

The many comps you have seen?

frgeorgeh · Feb 28, 2015

FF said:
Advertised price for the vessel is 59k. We offered 42,900.

What made you think the vessel was so overpriced?

The many comps you have seen?

Just going by what we have seen come and go over last 2 yrs and, trying to get best deal, of course. In this case skipper owner wants very near asking price. It might be worth it but that leaves very little funny money for immediate repairs and TLC.

We are still thinking about it but have other vessels to look at too.

Art · Feb 28, 2015

George - Have any pictures to share of boats you're reviewing?

That's called "Boat Porn" in TF waters - LOL

frgeorgeh · Feb 28, 2015

Quick question: cost of replacing old iron fuel tanks? I suppose it depends where they are located, difficulty in getting them out, etc.

I ask because we are looking at a boat today that has the original tanks installed. Broker says others have walked over this single item. Otherwise boat is very clean.

Here is the listing URL so you can get your Boat Porn on.

http://www.denisonyachtsales.com/ya...access=Public&listing_id=71211&url=&lineonly=

Very sad. Owner had it all loaded for extended cruise and had a massive heart attack day before leaving. He waited to late, I NEARLY waited to late. What are you waiting for? Get on the water friend!!!!

Thanks

Pau Hana · Feb 28, 2015

Art said:
Don't be shy my Good Friar... 40 to 60 K ain't chump change, especially in cash. That is a very respectful sum of capital to place into a boat... particularly your first boat. There are plenty of good condition 34' to 40' boats in that price range. The secret is finding them and recognizing them when you come across one.

You checking "Craigs List" diligently (i.e. day after day after day) in your area and areas nearby? Look under the "By-Owner Only" section and be ready to make calls.

I'm going to send you a PM.

Cheers! Art

Agreed!

Marin · Feb 28, 2015

The cost of new tanks varies all over the place. Considerations are difficulty of removing old tanks, material new tanks are made of, configuration of new tanks, difficulty of installation, and so forth.

As a single data point, the previous owner of our PNW boat had the boat's original three 150 gallon iron fuel tanks replaced with five smaller stainless steel tanks the year before we bought the boat.. I have no idea what the removal and installation labor cost was, but the cost of fabricating the five tanks was just under $10,000.

On some boats the engine(s) will have to come out. On our boat the original tanks were probably cut up in place and the pieces removed. The new smaller tanks would not have needed the engines to be removed to get the tanks in but the transmissions would have been taken off and then reinstalled.

Replacing old tanks with new ones is generally a pretty significant cost.

CPseudonym · Feb 28, 2015

Take the replacement cost out of the equation completely. If the boat is otherwise all you ever hoped for write a full price offer contingent upon the seller having the tanks replaced.

Marin · Feb 28, 2015

CPseudonym said:
Take the replacement cost out of the equation completely. If the boat is otherwise all you ever hoped for write a full price offer contingent upon the seller having the tanks replaced.

That's a smart thing to do, I think.

Delta_JimS · Feb 28, 2015

I did not see it mentioned above or in the listing; do either of the tanks leak at this time, or is this just precautionary?
How about evidence of rust on top or under the tanks?

CPseudonym · Feb 28, 2015

frgeorgeh said:
I ask because we are looking at a boat today that has the original tanks installed. Broker says others have walked over this single item. Otherwise boat is very clean.

Here it is JimS.

To my mind, sight unseen, the owner is aware the tanks present a problem getting the boat sold. If you read the bottom of the listing it shows several price reductions.

All that goes into my above advice because even if the tanks are in bristol condition, 10 years from now potential buyers will still likely question the tanks and walk. Never forget, the best time to help your future resale value is during purchase negotiations IMO. All other things being equal of course that is.

Art · Feb 28, 2015

CPseudonym said:
Take the replacement cost out of the equation completely. If the boat is otherwise all you ever hoped for write a full price offer contingent upon the seller having the tanks replaced.

And... of course, also... closure on the purchase at full price should be contingent that all other items check out correctly during survey and sea trial. If other items need replacement too then in addition to replacing tanks those items need to be completed before purchase; and, on the sellers dime too.

Be sure that any repair/refurbishment is done by reputable marine location with years trained personnel. Don't be timid to visit the boat while work efforts are ongoing. Another contingency should be that the installers and any new equipment passes muster with your surveyor and/or marine mechanic.

George, purchasing a used boat tain't a kids game. Poker-face should always be maintained by both the buyer and seller. This is purely a business deal. Then, you can fall in love with your "good condition" boat for the years after the buying phase has finished.

frgeorgeh · Feb 28, 2015

Well, we went at looked at the I Bristol posted a little earlier. The rust is falling of the tanks in huge scales. I was afraid diesel would come flowing out any minute. The boat was filthy and neglected - looking NOTHING like the photos in the ad. The broker didn't even bother to show up leaving us to an old crusty salt that is apparently living on the boat. He made a sandwich while we waited as we watched his dog chew on one to the settee cushions.

Once allowed to look around we saw all the decks were teak, bad teak. That alone would have made me run in horror. Then I went into the bildge. The dank, smell of rot and diesel fuel was overpowering. I still can't get the stench of that bildge out of my nose. We couldn't get off her fast enough.

Worst we have seen so far. I felt so sorry for the old girl. Really getting discouraged. Oh Lord give me hope and teach me patience!!!! :banghead:

jimbob · Feb 28, 2015

Hang in there and don't just settle on a boat that you have second thoughts about. The right boat will come,

Art · Feb 28, 2015

frgeorgeh said:
Well, we went at looked at the I Bristol posted a little earlier. The rust is falling of the tanks in huge scales. I was afraid diesel would come flowing out any minute. The boat was filthy and neglected - looking NOTHING like the photos in the ad. The broker didn't even bother to show up leaving us to an old crusty salt that is apparently living on the boat. He made a sandwich while we waited as we watched his dog chew on one to the settee cushions.

Once allowed to look around we saw all the decks were teak, bad teak. That alone would have made me run in horror. Then I went into the bildge. The dank, smell of rot and diesel fuel was overpowering. I still can't get the stench of that bildge out of my nose. We couldn't get off her fast enough.

Worst we have seen so far. I felt so sorry for the old girl. Really getting discouraged. Oh Lord give me hope and teach me patience!!!!

Sooo, George, really you want to become a pleasure-boat (trawler) owner do ya!!??

Have faith my friend.

It can happen in a good way for a newbie.

But, I want to repeat (and as others here have described) taint simple and knowledge is required. Old-Salt TF contributors and "good" boat-brokers and good marine-surveyor can fill you in on some of the details.

I can tell you the first several questions to ask on phone that qualifies pretty well whether or not it is worth visiting a boat. I will only do that over phone because of the way we will interact together as seller/buyer. Then you could begin to make many calls and can feel fairly competent that the boats you visit are worth your time. Eventually, the correct boat will pop-up... be ready to pounce; because, when the right one comes along it usually will be purchased soon by someone!

You have my number on a PM.

Continued Good Luck!

frgeorgeh · Feb 28, 2015

Thanks Art! You and Tim have been a huge help to us and we really appreciate it. Thought u guys might get a kick out of my final notes about this abortion we went and looked at today.

The search goes on!

Art · Feb 28, 2015

frgeorgeh said:
Thanks Art! You and Tim have been a huge help to us and we really appreciate it. Thought u guys might get a kick out of my final notes about this abortion we went and looked at today.

The search goes on!

View attachment 37805

Bird **** reference is funny!

Marin · Feb 28, 2015

frgeorgeh said:
The boat was filthy and neglected - looking NOTHING like the photos in the ad.

So you have just learned a valuable lesson. Boats NEVER look as good in reality as they do in photos. Any boat, new or old. NEVER judge or pre-judge a boat from photos you see of it. The photos are fine to show the boat's configuration and what the helm stations look like and the color of the seat cushions. But they tell you almost nothing about the actual condition of the boat.

The farthest I think one should go with photos is to decide "I like the look/style/configuration of that boat. I think I'll go have a look at it in person." And then show up expecting the worst so you won't be surprised or disappointed if that's what you find.

I and probably plenty of people on this forum know photographers who know how to use lenses and angles and light to make a half-sunk wreck look damn near like a newbuild.

Roll in what can be done with Photoshop and Illustrator and they can make a beat-to-crap Marine Trader look like a Fleming. Healhustler of this forum has taken a photo of our PNW boat, a Grand Banks, and removed the flying bridge, changed the proportions of the cabins and windows and made it look like a photo of a lobster-style boat. A picture of a real one that would fool most everyone.

So never judge a boat that's for sale by the pictures of it.

Forkliftt · Feb 28, 2015

Friar George!!!
That's quite strong opinion. We like you- even when you are good!!!

1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

Art · Feb 28, 2015

Marin said:
So you have just learned a valuable lesson. Boats NEVER look as good in reality as they do in photos. Any boat, new or old. NEVER judge or pre-judge a boat from photos you see of it. The photos are fine to show the boat's configuration and what the helm stations look like and the color of the seat cushions. But they tell you almost nothing about the actual condition of the boat.

The farthest I think one should go with photos is to decide "I like the look/style/configuration of that boat. I think I'll go have a look at it in person." And then show up expecting the worst so you won't be surprised or disappointed if that's what you find.

I and probably plenty of people on this forum know photographers who know how to use lenses and angles and light to make a half-sunk wreck look damn near like a newbuild.

Roll in what can be done with Photoshop and Illustrator and they can make a beat-to-crap Marine Trader look like a Fleming. Healhustler of this forum has taken a photo of our PNW boat, a Grand Banks, and removed the flying bridge, changed the proportions of the cabins and windows and made it look like a photo of a lobster-style boat. A picture of a real one that would fool most everyone.

So never judge a boat that's for sale by the pictures of it.

Marin - Being a published writer you are sticking with the saying...

Just can't judge a boat (err book) by its photo (err cover)!

So true!!

Marin · Feb 28, 2015

Art said:
Marin - Being a published writer you are sticking with the saying...

Just can't judge a boat (err book) by its photo (err cover)!

Well, sometimes you sort of can as in the first two, and sometimes there's no way, as in the latest one.....

Forkliftt · Feb 28, 2015

Marin!
Forward by Harrison Ford? THE Harrison Ford??

1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

Marin · Feb 28, 2015

Forkliftt said:
Marin!
Forward by Harrison Ford? THE Harrison Ford??

1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

Yes. He has a beautiful de Haviland Beaver (on wheels) that Kenmore built for him from a Viet Nam era surplus hulk, so I asked him if he'd write the forward for my book and he agreed.

Forkliftt · Feb 28, 2015

Sweet!!

1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

BruceK · Mar 1, 2015

It`s not a total waste of time, every boat you inspect and don`t buy is a learning exercise, including about the broker.

THD · Mar 1, 2015

George-I think looking at used boats might be a lot like learning a new congregation, among the many sinners will be a few real saints. You have to work your way through all the sinners to find the few saints. One day, as you walk down a dock, the saint will call to you and you will have found your boat!

Good Luck!

Taking the Plunge

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