Electronic suite replacement

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No Mast said:
We use a laptop running nobletec as a backup, ok we use it more of a primary actually
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Our Nobeltec is now into its ninth year and running on XP. Support is gone and a nine year old Dell is, well, nine years old. As mentioned by Peter, we have dedicated the Dell to only chart plotting so it appears bug and trouble free, but ------- I've never had a computer run this long.

We are leaning towards Rose Point but Trident remains in the picture. What are your thoughts on Nobeltec replacement?
 
I had a furuno radar that started to resist keyboard inputs. Sent it to them and they upgraded the software and replaces keyboard for $500 on a 8 YO unit.


I then added a Garman plotter because I liked the touch screen and remote control and it came preloaded with all US charts. An older B&G auto pilot and a new fish finder were connected to the Garman for parallel display. I like radar and GPS to be separate so I don't mess up one while adjusting the other. It all worked well.


Shallow water is always a problem for depth sounders, especially if it is stirred up by other boats. I used a two frequency fish finder so I could see a scanned plot of depth. If the digital output was lost I still had some dots indicating depth.
 
My trawler came with new Garmin plotters, radar, and Simrad AP20 pilot. Was planning on replacing all the Garmin equipment with Furuno. My local dealer who sold me my double Navnet system 13 years ago that I'm still using on my charter boat, wanted me to consider the Simrad system. Looked long and hard at both Furuno and Simrad last winter. Drove the boat up from FL to MD in April. Didn't see anything from the 2 other guys that made me want to take my Garmin gear out. This coming from a diehard Furuno guy.

For upgrades to my electronics:

Changing the GPS receiver to the new faster sampling unit (> 1 per second) $150.
Switching to a 6' open array 6KW radar antenna.
Adding a heading sensor (Airman) $600 for ARPA radar display
Adding 3 GMI 20 displays 2 pilot house 1 master stateroom.
Adding the wind sensor
May switch to the Garmin ais unit although the current one displays nicely on the plotter

Didn't like Garmin pilot and will likely switch to Comnav when the Simrad quits.
Will stay with the Icom radio also.

The Garmin equipment interfaces nicely, very easy to install, and just seem to have a lot more options than the others. Really like the small GMI 20 displays that allow you to select most important item with a touch of a button. Want depth either as digital number or graphic display when creeping into shallow water, no problem. Want an anchor drag alarm that will display on the master stateroom display also, no problem hit the button on the pilothouse display when anchoring. Want a display in the master stateroom that scrolls from anchor drag alarm, depth, and plotter swing display, wind speed and direction while anchored, this will do it and only requires nmea 2000 network cable. All the inputs and the GMI 20 displays on this nmea 2000 network draw next to no power so having a display in the master stateroom that will display the important stuff without getting out of bed just got really easy.

I'm sure Furuno and Simrad have some features that I missed, but no manufacturer has everything. Still plan to run a stand alone laptop with navigation software and independent gps input for redundancy and if necessary, charts for areas not available on Garmin software.

Ted
 
O C Diver said:
The Garmin equipment interfaces nicely, very easy to install, and just seem to have a lot more options than the others. Really like the small GMI 20 displays that allow you to select most important item with a touch of a button. Want depth either as digital number or graphic display when creeping into shallow water, no problem. Want an anchor drag alarm that will display on the master stateroom display also, no problem hit the button on the pilothouse display when anchoring. Want a display in the master stateroom that scrolls from anchor drag alarm, depth, and plotter swing display, wind speed and direction while anchored, this will do it and only requires nmea 2000 network cable. All the inputs and the GMI 20 displays on this nmea 2000 network draw next to no power so having a display in the master stateroom that will display the important stuff without getting out of bed just got really easy.



I'm sure Furuno and Simrad have some features that I missed, but no manufacturer has everything. Still plan to run a stand alone laptop with navigation software and independent gps input for redundancy and if necessary, charts for areas not available on Garmin software.



Ted
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Maretron makes a similar display, and it's great. It's got to be one of the must rich in features displays I've come upon because you could display almost anything on them. (Assuming it's connected into the bus) We didn't put displays but we did hook the TZTBB up to repeat its video output to all three TV's on the boat and even added a second controller so I can control all the Furuno functions from the comfort of my bed while off watch or at anchor.

Also have you looked at Maretron's WSO-100 I think it may be about the same price as the Garmin system but has a few more features like dew point, humidity, temperature, and it also uses ultrasonic sensors for sensing wind so there's no moving parts to break.
 
If your going to have two MFD at the helm is it a bad idea to buy two brands so that when an issue comes up your not duplicating the problem?
 
Pgitug said:
If your going to have two MFD at the helm is it a bad idea to buy two brands so that when an issue comes up your not duplicating the problem?
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Thatsthe way it usually works.
 
Autopilots

Didn't like Garmin pilot and will likely switch to Comnav when the Simrad quits.


Interesting. I have a new Garmin autopilot and an old Comnav in my boat. There is no comparison. The Garmin keeps the XTE down to amazingly small numbers (think ten feet!). The Comnav is still there just for a backup and the rudder angle indicator. The Garmin has the marvelous feature that lets you take control by grabbing the wheel. I really like it!
 
@Ted My AP-20 was keeping my XTE under 4 yards. That was in 6-8's on the stern quarter It's a good pilot IMO, wouldn't ditch it just yet.
 
N4712 said:
@Ted My AP-20 was keeping my XTE under 4 yards. That was in 6-8's on the stern quarter It's a good pilot IMO, wouldn't ditch it just yet.
Click to expand...

Wasn't planning on changing until the AP20 died.

Ted
 
No Mast said:
more for comfort in shallow areas.
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Although I have Garmin several friends have Furuno

my 4212 is not in the same category as the Furuno TZT 14 but does seem like a different league

the sonar is a must for my future especially here on the gulf coast
 
siestakey said:
Although I have Garmin several friends have Furuno



my 4212 is not in the same category as the Furuno TZT 14 but does seem like a different league



the sonar is a must for my future especially here on the gulf coast
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Furuno is know for their great sonar. We're adding a sounder box next haul out and will post pics.
 
N4712 said:
Furuno is know for their great sonar. We're adding a sounder box next haul out and will post pi


we are doing a haul end of next month for our new swim platform

I will be adding some a few more electronic toys
Click to expand...
 
N4712 said:
The Garmin's are great to an extent, I've found Garmin to be very proprietary in some of their things like autopilots. You're forced to Ouse their heading sensor and pump. Also if you have multiple heading sensors you don't have the ability to choose which one you want, source selection and stuff like that is what bugs me about them. Also their proprietary charts, I love them for my area as they are based off very reputable charts (bahamas- explorer charts) ,but once we start cruising around in far destinations Garmin doesn't have charts for these places. So now what? Oh go get one that does.

I've also noted Garmin hardware getting kind of chinsey like the the type of connectors they have started using, and also it seems every time I pull the dust cover off my machines the bezel wants to come off with it. Little stuff like that bothers me too.

Of course you saved a lot because you were in Garmins target market.
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Olly, a couple of things.
We are using the existing AP pump left over from the ray marine AP with our new garmin AP
My Garmin 7212 allow me to choose which heading sensor I want each device to use
My bezel stays put when I remove the dust covers, but if they came off that would annoy me too.
What areas are not covered by garmin charts?
 
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Capt.Bill11 said:
It will be interesting to see how well it works in shallow water. We are putting it on the boat I'm currently running even now. I'm not sure what use it will be when the bottom is close to the keel.
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I use one on a bay boat and in most of my fishing spots (less than 10 ft of water) it is of little use. Nice offshore to find the relief of deeper reefs/scuttled oil platform shell pads and ledges/drop-offs in the passes. As far as navigational use/at anchor I don't see where it would be of value. Perhaps forward looking sonar if at dead slow would be useful. I would be interested in how one would use sidescan on a cruiser.
 
bligh said:
Olly, a couple of things.
We are using the existing AP pump left over from the ray marine AP with our new garmin AP
My Garmin 7212 allow me to choose which heading sensor I want each device to use
My bezel stays put when I remove the dust covers, but if they came off that would annoy me too.
What areas are not covered by garmin charts?
Click to expand...


AP: Last time I checked Garmin locked the people in when they came out with their Reactor series pumps which they hard mounted the brains to also. Did you get an older one?

Source selection: Your 7212 runs entirely different software then mine (The newer 741XS) so that must be the discrepancy.

Bezel: Yours Is a different design then mine, I guess they cheaped out a little on the newer plotters.

Charts: Southern Ocean and Africa. Again the recreational trawler is not going to be visiting these places, so it's not a big deal. But for people who do want then tough luck. Also I don't like how with Garmin your locked into just their charts, I like being able to choose which chart provider. Also being able to display NOAA's RNC's & VNC's is nice.
 
N4712 said:
AP: Last time I checked Garmin locked the people in when they came out with their Reactor series pumps which they hard mounted the brains to also. Did you get an older one?

Source selection: Your 7212 runs entirely different software then mine (The newer 741XS) so that must be the discrepancy.

Bezel: Yours Is a different design then mine, I guess they cheaped out a little on the newer plotters.

Charts: Southern Ocean and Africa. Again the recreational trawler is not going to be visiting these places, so it's not a big deal. But for people who do want then tough luck. Also I don't like how with Garmin your locked into just their charts, I like being able to choose which chart provider. Also being able to display NOAA's RNC's & VNC's is nice.
Click to expand...


While I did not find charts for antarctica, I did find a full selection of charts for Africa.

Garmin | Region Coverage
 
Ollie,
I'm also curious about your statement,
"Of course you saved a lot because you were in Garmins target market"

What do you mean by that?

Wouldn't I also be in Furuno's target market along with all the other manufacturer's as well?
 
bligh said:
While I did not find charts for antarctica, I did find a full selection of charts for Africa.

Garmin | Region Coverage
Click to expand...

You know what i missed that my bad. I only saw the NW part of africa but now that i'm on a desktop and not a Ipad i could see their are.
 
bligh said:
Ollie,
I'm also curious about your statement,
"Of course you saved a lot because you were in Garmins target market"

What do you mean by that?

Wouldn't I also be in Furuno's target market along with all the other manufacturer's as well?
Click to expand...

From what I've seen Gamrin's market is more geared toward the day boats or CC markets. You would be in Furuno's market too(now), it used to be toward larger boats but now that they have gotten competitive in pricing it broadens their market area (they smarten'd up). A TZT14 used to be around $7600 which has gone down to since then $4100. Even the newly released Tz touch TZTL12F&15 is competitively priced. Anyways i see furuno geared more toward the mid sized to larger boat market but that now is all changing. Also they are very big on the commercial market. I believe the Government also still has Vx2 contract with them too still.

Simrad, Lowrance (They're both a Navico company) and Garmin seem to be in the same markets.

B&G, and Raymarine seem to rule the Sailing market.

Again this all IMO.
 
4712: what is it that leads you to feel that Garmin is more geared to day boaters?
 
I did get a Lowrance combination unit for our RIB. Its got a great fish finder on it.
 
bligh said:
I did get a Lowrance combination unit for our RIB. Its got a great fish finder on it.
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I also do, does what it's designed to do exceptionally good.
 
I have a Garmin system built around a 5215 display. It works well and the software is user friendly. My only complaint is that I should have gone for the 7215 model. The screen redraw when scrolling the display on the 5215 is a little slow. The newer Garmins look pretty good also. I don't know what the Furuno does so much better that it makes the Garmin suitable for amateurs and day sailors only. I'm pretty sure Garmin, Raymarine, and Furuno all make a decent product.
 
BlueYonder said:
I have a Garmin system built around a 5215 display. It works well and the software is user friendly. My only complaint is that I should have gone for the 7215 model. The screen redraw when scrolling the display on the 5215 is a little slow. The newer Garmins look pretty good also. I don't know what the Furuno does so much better that it makes the Garmin suitable for amateurs and day sailors only. I'm pretty sure Garmin, Raymarine, and Furuno all make a decent product.
Click to expand...

It's all personal preference, glad you like your Garmin system. I'm happy with the three i have because they serve their purpose well.
 
rardoin said:
I use one on a bay boat and in most of my fishing spots (less than 10 ft of water) it is of little use. Nice offshore to find the relief of deeper reefs/scuttled oil platform shell pads and ledges/drop-offs in the passes. As far as navigational use/at anchor I don't see where it would be of value. Perhaps forward looking sonar if at dead slow would be useful. I would be interested in how one would use sidescan on a cruiser.
Click to expand...

We only got it because the boss wanted it. Like a lot of owners I guess he got caught up in the latest/greatest game. It will make for interesting viewing while we are cruising I'm sure. But since we aren't going to be hunting for fishing spots I'm not sure of what real use it will be other than a novelty.

Although I guess it could help delineate the edge of a channel perhaps. Or to spot reef/rock patches in in dirty water.
 
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