Is boating for the rich? Feeling dismayed

"Do you spend July, August and September in FL? Methinks not."

God Forbid!!! WHO would want to?

When cruising I did spend a summer in the Carib , traveling the Windward Island.

With a suitable deck awning the vessel temperature is very close to the actual water temperature , not a big deal .

Behind the higher islands a hatch scoop is a help as the trades are much diminished, and the boat will frequently be on two anchors to be able to point into the swell, not the breeze.

No big deal for retirement cruising.

.

Another data point:

We spent the last ten summers (2.5-3.5 months) cruising BC and/or SE Alaska, traveling 2000-3000 nm each. There are usually 2 or 3 of us on board. We eat almost always on board, and don't go much more than 6 knots most of the time. We anchor ~75% of the time, but would note that costs per foot in SE Alaska harbors are really low. I do almost all boat maintenance myself.

I've kept pretty detailed records. Total cruising costs ranged from $60 to $90 per day on the water, depending on fuel prices and the need for boat parts. Even less if we don't count groceries and alcohol, which we'd want on land too.

Except for marina costs, assuming you have a 32-35ish trawler that's in good shape, I'd expect your cruising costs would not need to be much greater than ours. Our bud's 32 Nordic Tug cruises 6-7 knots with essentially the same fuel economy (4 nmpg) as our 26-footer.

FF said:

"Do you spend July, August and September in FL? Methinks not."

God Forbid!!! WHO would want to?

When cruising I did spend a summer in the Carib , traveling the Windward Island.

With a suitable deck awning the vessel temperature is very close to the actual water temperature , not a big deal .

Behind the higher islands a hatch scoop is a help as the trades are much diminished, and the boat will frequently be on two anchors to be able to point into the swell, not the breeze.

No big deal for retirement cruising.

.

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I hear people say that alot. But having spent three summers in the Keys I can tell you that it is very enjoyable. The highest temp ever recorded since that started keeping records was 99. It is usually in the low 90s or high 80s in the summer. Granted if you were inland it would be miserable, but then who would ever want to be inland. Island life is the way to go.

Boating styles have changed and population has increased.
When I started there was no electronics or A/C at least on the size boat I had. Anchors were hauled by hand.


Because the population was half what it is today fewer people were using the same marinas. There was never a question of getting a space so prices were lower.


Regulations were much simpler then as well there was no EPA looking at everything marina operators did. There were fewer boats going to basically the same locations with a lot of anchoring. Simple boats cost less and cost less to maintain and run even allowing for inflation.


IMO you can still boat as your grand father did. With jut a few interior lights or even oil lamps. Slow speed, lots of anchoring, ice in the reefer, paper charts etc. Minimalist boaters still exist but we all read about and see all the boating toys and that convinces us we have to have them.

but then who would ever want to be inland.

Cruisers between cruises that worry about what happens along the shore when the tide gets 15-20 ft over normal, with a 120K breeze blowing, prefer an inland Hurricane Hole.

Inland FL SUCKS in the summer , but were 1500 miles North!

I find when cruising my credit card bill is about half what is while on dirt. Less opportunity to buy stupid crap and less opportunity to eat out.

One of the secrets of keeping boating affordable is K.I.S.S.. No I don't follow my own advise.

bayview said:

Boating styles have changed and population has increased.
When I started there was no electronics or A/C at least on the size boat I had. Anchors were hauled by hand.


Because the population was half what it is today fewer people were using the same marinas. There was never a question of getting a space so prices were lower.


Regulations were much simpler then as well there was no EPA looking at everything marina operators did. There were fewer boats going to basically the same locations with a lot of anchoring. Simple boats cost less and cost less to maintain and run even allowing for inflation.


IMO you can still boat as your grand father did. With jut a few interior lights or even oil lamps. Slow speed, lots of anchoring, ice in the reefer, paper charts etc. Minimalist boaters still exist but we all read about and see all the boating toys and that convinces us we have to have them.

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Well said.



Sent from my iPhone using Trawler Forum

"IMO you can still boat as your grand father did. With jut a few interior lights or even oil lamps"

LED may have a sucky color , but there better than oil lamps for reading. For setting a "mood" oil is still superior>

"Slow speed, lots of anchoring"

defines most inshore or even distance motoring, high speed requires too many stops at the fuel hose.i

"Ice in the reefer, . "

Not cheap, but a modern $400 ice box can hold block ice , for over a week if desired. No instaliation hassles , no dead batts ?

"paper charts etc"

A chart kit and $150 hand held GPS will do for most cruises.

"we all read about and see all the boating toys and that convinces us we have to have them.."

Self control is part of boating.

When you see a must have toy , write it down on a piece of paper and stick it in the log book.

If it still looks like a great idea in a month , have fun!

FF said:

Self control is part of boating.

When you see a must have toy , write it down on a piece of paper and stick it in the log book.

If it still looks like a great idea in a month , have fun!

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Good point. Particularly with electronics. If you procrastinate long enough it will be obsolete by the time you go to purchase, and the replacement will be too expensive to purchase, so you wait a bit longer...

This cycle is responsible for me using laptop navigation for nearly ten years and never purchasing a standalone MFD.

To Be Co$t Effective:

1. Buy good older boat - Tollycraft, GrandBanks, Hatteras... or the like

2. Anchor out or stay tied at your own dock - preferably in fresh water

3. Don't try to outfit boat with new crap - it's unneeded; stay with the basics

4. Cruise slow when cruising for best mileage... or simply don't cruise much

5. Do you own maintenance aboard and haul-out only when needed

#1 = $20K to $60K for older good condition 34' to 45' FRP boat
#2 = Nearly $0.00 if done correctly
#3 = Very few $$$ if done correctly
#4 = Couple hundred to couple thousand to few/several thousand dollars annually; depending on how much you want to cruise
#5 = Cost of parts and materials if you are good mechanic and don't mind working a bit

Soooo... If you purchased a really good condition, great model, older fiberglass boat (late 1960's thru latter 1990's) at the right price there will be little to no depreciation... cause their re-sale value will already have hit bottom $$$ wi$e. When ready to sell most if not all your investment should come back. Maybe even little bit of profit if you kept her in good condition and make her sparkle for the sale!

If done correctly - #'s 2 - 5 could cost as little as a couple thousand annually... or as many thousand as you feel like spending.

Cost of boating is very inexpensive if you want it to be. Also, boating can be very expensive if you'd like it that way. Anywhere in-between those two extremes is wide open to have happen too!

Best Luck!

Happy Boat-Dollar Daze! - Art

One thing is simply lifestyle. If you spend money in your land life, you're likely to while boating. Do you go to the concert in the park or the $200 per person one in the coliseum. On boating, do you eat out at 5 star restaurants or is your occasional meal eating out an early bird special or some other special. Many find those and have enough leftovers for a couple more meals.

Now I don't profess we live or boat cheaply. But I've read and observed enough who do. The only thing we do cheaply while boating is oddly enough buying art and artifacts. We've discovered the retail market is quite strong in Florida for art and artifacts from around the country and other countries so we keep one item and sell the others at a nice profit. Don't get me wrong, in no way touches our boating costs but is ironic to be certain.

But that does also bring up something some "retired" boaters are doing. They are finding non-intrusive and enjoyable ways to add just enough income to allow them the occasional splurge on something special. Whether it's ebay or some other web activity or odd jobs along the way. Some even help out at marinas they visit during some peak times. Free dock, work 25 hours a week for a couple of months at a minimum stress job. Just increased the kitty by $1500. I know one man who needed a bottom job. Well, he helped on one the yard was doing, learned how from them, and got free haul-out and land usage to do his own. Even use of their equipment. He was then so good they asked him to assist on another.

It's not ideal and you try to plan and budget well. But when something extra comes up you didn't plan on, you can often find a way to handle it without giving up on the whole idea of boating. There is one marina in Marathon that I believe 2/3 of their workers are those who decided to winter there and ended up working part time while doing so.

RCook said:

Another data point:

We spent the last ten summers (2.5-3.5 months) cruising BC and/or SE Alaska, traveling 2000-3000 nm each. There are usually 2 or 3 of us on board. We eat almost always on board, and don't go much more than 6 knots most of the time. We anchor ~75% of the time, but would note that costs per foot in SE Alaska harbors are really low. I do almost all boat maintenance myself.

I've kept pretty detailed records. Total cruising costs ranged from $60 to $90 per day on the water, depending on fuel prices and the need for boat parts. Even less if we don't count groceries and alcohol, which we'd want on land too.
.

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You mentioned total cruising costs at $60 to $90 per day - is that per person, or total for the boat and all people on it (food for all people)?

If thats total (and you mentioned there are usually 2 or 3 people on board most of the time - its actually $30 to $45 per person per day. Interesting.

Thanks for sharing.

$60-$90 per day is the total for boat and people.

We did spend a pretty good bundle having the boat built 17 years ago, and we also spend a fair amount towing from home in Utah up to Prince Rupert to launch, but the cost of operating and maintaining the boat, feeding the crew, etc seems like quite the bargain.

FF said:

"IMO you can still boat as your grand father did. With jut a few interior lights or even oil lamps"

LED may have a sucky color , but there better than oil lamps for reading. For setting a "mood" oil is still superior>

Click to expand...

Oh I already planned on oil lamps. I grew up with those in the cabin instead of using the 12 volt system and prefer the mood oil creates

I live in Alaska oil lamps are great they produce heat.. was on a boat once down south it had a few oil lamps I had to sleep on the deck.


Don't be afraid of an older boat.. As long as the motor is good and the hull is sound with a good deck and ground tackle. You can add what you need as you go. You would be surprised at what you really need. If you add and rebuild things as you go at least you will know how to fix it.


$hit breaks.


SD

Spending, Spending, Spending, is not the key to a great life aboard.

How much is spent is just another choice.

COMFORT is key , and to my simple mind it requires a real couch or real chairs as a slab of whatever on a slab of wood might be OK for a dinette, but NOT for a rainy day aboard.

Mick


You will be amazed at the creature comforts available in numerous hull and superstructure designs from the 70's, 80's, 90's in pleasure boats that range from 32' to 60'. Most are quite seaworthy too. In general, the used boat market is glutted with classics. Trick is to find one at correct price that has been VERY Well taken care of. There are some out there; by searching they can be located. But, be careful... cause, just because a detail crew was paid a grand or three for pretty-up does not make it a good boat. Survey, Survey, Survey before purchasing.


Then Play Baby - - > PLAY!

Mick I'll sell you a good Willard for less than $60K and there's great cruising opportunities here .... or on you're way home. One GPH.

First time I've clicked on this thread. My mistake.

Yup I use minimal electronics, no gen, small capstan to anchor, FD hull w small engine, no TV, no good dinghy, no FB, no fridge, ect ect. The only one I'm a little frustrated not having is a good dinghy. I use $100 a gal anti-fowling, and usually sleeping bags. I have a King bed at home w a $2000 mattress. But don't miss it on the boat.

I've always thought one of the best things about boating is that you could buy an old rowboat for $30 or a yacht for 3 million. Everything in between is called messing around in boats. Go for it. Trust us ... it's there.

So what I am getting from this thread is that it might be more economical to buy used and pump some money into repairing it. I have a friend that has just finished designing a 34' trawler that he says he can sell for around $114,000. My understanding is that this would be ready to cruise at this price, so I am thinking I might be able to play at that price! Is there anything I am missing? The boat is the SeaPiper 34, you can google it. (I can't post a link here)

seriously doubt that price




In any event you misunderstood, you don't need a fixer upper. There are some well taken care of boats that don't sell for much more than a fixer...

pewterputter said:

So what I am getting from this thread is that it might be more economical to buy used and pump some money into repairing it. I have a friend that has just finished designing a 34' trawler that he says he can sell for around $114,000. My understanding is that this would be ready to cruise at this price, so I am thinking I might be able to play at that price! Is there anything I am missing? The boat is the SeaPiper 34, you can google it. (I can't post a link here)

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If your friend can build and deliver a 34' boat for that price point it will sell.

Just remember that huge manufacturers like Bayliner with all their engineers trying to cut costs, and all their buying power couldn't do it. Thats not to say it cannot be done, its just saying that others have tried and it didn't work out for them.

pewterputter said:

So what I am getting from this thread is that it might be more economical to buy used and pump some money into repairing it. I have a friend that has just finished designing a 34' trawler that he says he can sell for around $114,000. My understanding is that this would be ready to cruise at this price, so I am thinking I might be able to play at that price! Is there anything I am missing? The boat is the SeaPiper 34, you can google it. (I can't post a link here)

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I would be very reluctant to buy a homemade boat (I use the word homemade to indicate not an active and regular boat builder, rather than place built). It looks good on paper but how many has he built at that price?

Plus I would never want to be hull 1. Since Its the first there will be mistakes made that will cost you. Buy something proven.

Nice looking boat. Most 34' trawlers have about a 12' beam. This is only about 8 1/2' beam. That would account for the almost 7 MPG theoretical fuel consumption. Keep in mind that when you pay slip fees, you pay by the linear foot. Most people would want more interior space and that would be in the beam. Just something to consider if you are planning any really long trips.
Anyway, I wish your friend good fortune in his new company.

manyboats said:

Mick I'll sell you a good Willard for less than $60K and there's great cruising opportunities here .... or on you're way home. One GPH.

First time I've clicked on this thread. My mistake.

Yup I use minimal electronics, no gen, small capstan to anchor, FD hull w small engine, no TV, no good dinghy, no FB, no fridge, ect ect. The only one I'm a little frustrated not having is a good dinghy. I use $100 a gal anti-fowling, and usually sleeping bags. I have a King bed at home w a $2000 mattress. But don't miss it on the boat.

I've always thought one of the best things about boating is that you could buy an old rowboat for $30 or a yacht for 3 million. Everything in between is called messing around in boats. Go for it. Trust us ... it's there.

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Well said.

Thanks Tony_B My friend said early on that he chose the 8 1/2' beam because he wanted it to be trailerable. He is the king of efficiency though and I am sure that had something to do with that spec too!

BandB this is not homebuilt stuff but a full-on manufacturer-built complete boat. He has most all his vendors already on board so I am sure he is able to project final cost. And, he is not the kind of guy that would post a price on the SeaPiper company website unless he was confident he could meet that price.

bayview said:

seriously doubt that price




In any event you misunderstood, you don't need a fixer upper. There are some well taken care of boats that don't sell for much more than a fixer...

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So yes maybe I did misunderstand. The $114k for a new SeaPiper would be in the ball park for a well-cared-for Ranger Tug or something similar?

I am new to the forum, but maintain my boat on a budget so I feel safe in commenting here. You can maintain a boat quite cheaply, but to do that you have to do most or all of the work on your boat yourself. There is no need to scrimp on things like lighting, refrigeration, etc. After all, those are one time costs. When I bought my boat is was on the verge of being cut up for scrap. Four years of sweat equity later I have a nice cruising boat equipped exactly how I want it. I keep it at a marina during the season, which is about half of my annual expense. Winter storage accounts for another quarter of my costs.

Your major costs are likely to be moorage unless you are cruising and anchor out, insurance and fuel if you ae on the move. Fuel cost can be minimized by cruising slowly. My boat burns 1/3 of a gallon per hour at 6 knots but 2.5 gph at 9 knots, so I generally cruise at 6 knots. My boat is wood, which creates some additional maintenance costs, but a glass boat will have little work needed that you can't do yourself. As far as electronics goes, you don't need all that much. My electronics consists of a fish finder that came with the boat but likely cost under $200, a vhf radio ($150) and a notebook computer with a $50 GPS puck I run free charting software on using free charts downloaded from NOAA. I don't have radar, but even here on the coast of Maine I don't feel the need for it. I also don't have an autopilot, but you really don't want to run under autopilot here unless you like lobster gear fouling your prop. I installed 100 watts of solar panels on the cabin top which keep my batteries up and let me run my refrigeration 24/7. Other than that all I have on the boat is an electric windlass, pressure water, a webasto heater and lights. I keep the costs down by doing ALL the work on the boat myself.

You don't have to be rich to enjoy boating, particularly if you don't feel the need for the biggest and best boat.

The cost of health care is what can make or break you, and it has nothing to do with boating or land based living. Number one reason for bankruptcies in the US and that included people who HAVE health insurance. Lots of places in the world with good health care at a lot more affordable cost then the US. Now understand I live half the year in Alaska with maybe the highest health care costs in the world. The other half of the year I spend in Asia and am currently anchored with many other yachts with stories of their mostly good experiences of affordable good health care in Asia.
The cost of health care in the US can eat your lunch. It broke me once.