Hendo's Randall 35 Cray Boat complete rebuild, Perth, Western Australia
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
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Moonstruck
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Gee, Matt, the progress just keeps going. She is really shaping up.
Crusty Chief
Guru
Matt!
Keep at it bud, looking forward to your next update. Have you decided on final colors yet?
Keep at it bud, looking forward to your next update. Have you decided on final colors yet?
Window and door frames arrived today. Will test fit them and do all the pre-drilling etc now then return them to the shop for electroplating and anodising then glazing in 6mm laminated safety glass then I'll wrap them up and put them away until the boat is painted. Will post some more pics on the weekend once they're in
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Yo - Boat Champ! Great do see you back at it.
Silver/tungsten roof will look good (be kinda bad-ass)... but... be careful of the heat transfer! That color loves to absorb solar rays.
Can hardly wait for more progress-picts... window frames look good - You're really coming along again!
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Yeah time to pick myself up. I'm not the first nor will I be the last to go through a relationship break-up. **** happens. What's done is done. It's been 6 weeks now. Time to show some spirit and stop being a sook and to cowboy up!
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RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr, H. Sorry to hear that. Life goes on.
Mr, H. Sorry to hear that. Life goes on.
CPseudonym
Moderator Emeritus
Nomad Willy
Guru
Matt,
REALLY sorry to hear bout the lost lass.
Really sorry.
When you launch Axe we will all feel like wer'e part of her.
And you too.
REALLY sorry to hear bout the lost lass.
Really sorry.
When you launch Axe we will all feel like wer'e part of her.
And you too.
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Roger. Boats...
Roger. Boats...
dhmeissner
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Boats, not goats.....
Starting fitting the windows. They are bloody tight. Need to trim 5mm of the opening so stopped and went on to fitting the steel for the roof bulkheads/strengthening beams. Did the Portside. Stbd side tomorrow.
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RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. H. Outstanding! You're wise to leave some "slop" in the window fittings as the frames will NOT move, whereas the surrounding wood, most assuredly, will. While you're at the task of trimming, will 5mm be sufficient? Do you have the flange width to trim a bit more?
Mr. H. Outstanding! You're wise to leave some "slop" in the window fittings as the frames will NOT move, whereas the surrounding wood, most assuredly, will. While you're at the task of trimming, will 5mm be sufficient? Do you have the flange width to trim a bit more?
Nomad Willy
Guru
RT,
Putting some "slop" in the window fit for wood expansion .. You mean for general boat movement at sea or that and wood swelling?
Putting some "slop" in the window fit for wood expansion .. You mean for general boat movement at sea or that and wood swelling?
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RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. mb. A bit of both. All parts of pretty well any vehicle flex due to temperature change, vibration, humidity and phases of the moon (immediately unknown or non obvious reasons) I'm quite sure Mr. H could fit those windows within a few thousands of an inch clearance but upon movement, something's gotta give and the "weakest" link in this case is the glass. Belt and suspenders IMO. That being said, there ARE situations where a nice tight fit is desirable but I feel this is not one of them.
Mr. mb. A bit of both. All parts of pretty well any vehicle flex due to temperature change, vibration, humidity and phases of the moon (immediately unknown or non obvious reasons) I'm quite sure Mr. H could fit those windows within a few thousands of an inch clearance but upon movement, something's gotta give and the "weakest" link in this case is the glass. Belt and suspenders IMO. That being said, there ARE situations where a nice tight fit is desirable but I feel this is not one of them.
Xsbank
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Steel, wood, aluminum, all will expand and contract at different rates. Lots of 'loose' will save you some grief.
A small word of advice, if you hadn't thought of this, don't be tempted to attach anything to those steel beams such that the fasteners will penetrate whatever ceiling treatment you decide on. Having seen the results, attach wood stringers to the steel then attach the ceiling to the stringers. The PO of my boat attached the ceiling ply directly to the aluminum beams and therefore the fasteners were the same temperature as the beams. Cold. Warm, humid air from the living quarters touched the fasteners and water condensed, causing constant damp above the ceiling finish and allowing mold to grow and the fasteners to corrode. The whole ceiling and all the panelling on the walls had to come down (I love a fire!) and it's been a lot of work to finish. Not done yet but it will be a lot snazzier.
A small word of advice, if you hadn't thought of this, don't be tempted to attach anything to those steel beams such that the fasteners will penetrate whatever ceiling treatment you decide on. Having seen the results, attach wood stringers to the steel then attach the ceiling to the stringers. The PO of my boat attached the ceiling ply directly to the aluminum beams and therefore the fasteners were the same temperature as the beams. Cold. Warm, humid air from the living quarters touched the fasteners and water condensed, causing constant damp above the ceiling finish and allowing mold to grow and the fasteners to corrode. The whole ceiling and all the panelling on the walls had to come down (I love a fire!) and it's been a lot of work to finish. Not done yet but it will be a lot snazzier.
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motogizmo
Member
Matt,
I just did the first float test on my boat. I still have a lot of construction to do, but I have been worried about the attitude she would have in the water. I was right to worry because she is sitting very low in the water, and has a nose down attitude. This will change as I add weight in the aft end. The sitting low in the water will be ongoing. It will be an issue with my deck drains potentially backing water into the cockpit when we have a bunch of guys, bait, gear, ice and fish on board. I have the option to make corrective actions at this point, and I will do that.
I know I have said this before, but I do so now with even more conviction. Take her to the water and do a float test on her after all the major weight is on board, and before you have her totally finished out. At this stage moving components to change her weight distribution will be easy. After your 30 minute float bring her back to the property and finish her out.
You have made so many great changes. You have stated that you are not a naval engineer.
I would take several barrels and have a pump where you can fill the barrels to trim her during that float. so you will now where the weight needs to change relative to the where you want the waterline. Great opportunity to mark were the waterline were it needs to be painted on.
I know this seems to be a big consumption of time, transport, and money that may not be value added, but I believe that in the end you will be very gland you did! For me there is a lake 20 minutes away.
Just looking out for you man, and not saying any of this to piss you off. If this had been just parts changes and a big components add, I would not be that worried. You widened her and stretched her. Changed the free board, and added a built in swim platform....... this is a lot of change for a boat.
If you get her in the water and that swim platform is under water 3 inches you are going to be unhappy. If you need to add 1000 pounds of fuel or water tanks to the stern to make her sit in the water right you can do that much less costly before she is totally polished out.
I suspect that seeing her sitting in the water will be a level of inspiration that will really boost your sprits.
I just did the first float test on my boat. I still have a lot of construction to do, but I have been worried about the attitude she would have in the water. I was right to worry because she is sitting very low in the water, and has a nose down attitude. This will change as I add weight in the aft end. The sitting low in the water will be ongoing. It will be an issue with my deck drains potentially backing water into the cockpit when we have a bunch of guys, bait, gear, ice and fish on board. I have the option to make corrective actions at this point, and I will do that.
I know I have said this before, but I do so now with even more conviction. Take her to the water and do a float test on her after all the major weight is on board, and before you have her totally finished out. At this stage moving components to change her weight distribution will be easy. After your 30 minute float bring her back to the property and finish her out.
You have made so many great changes. You have stated that you are not a naval engineer.
I would take several barrels and have a pump where you can fill the barrels to trim her during that float. so you will now where the weight needs to change relative to the where you want the waterline. Great opportunity to mark were the waterline were it needs to be painted on.
I know this seems to be a big consumption of time, transport, and money that may not be value added, but I believe that in the end you will be very gland you did! For me there is a lake 20 minutes away.
Just looking out for you man, and not saying any of this to piss you off. If this had been just parts changes and a big components add, I would not be that worried. You widened her and stretched her. Changed the free board, and added a built in swim platform....... this is a lot of change for a boat.
If you get her in the water and that swim platform is under water 3 inches you are going to be unhappy. If you need to add 1000 pounds of fuel or water tanks to the stern to make her sit in the water right you can do that much less costly before she is totally polished out.
I suspect that seeing her sitting in the water will be a level of inspiration that will really boost your sprits.
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Nomad Willy
Guru
I agree motogizmo.
But it would be a big effort. A middle of the road thought would be to observe other boats as Axe isn't a strange design regarding beam and deadrise. There are the issues you mentioned re Matt's changes to the original design.
Boats are pointed fwd and mostly square aft so there's much more flotation aft and it varies w boats. Many trawlers float (even underway) bow down in appearence but in pics one can't see the underwater hull so some to many may be in trim despite what appears to be.
And if Matt is planing on running Axe over 8 knots the trim (as you mentioned I think) is even more important.
Good observation and advice moto.
But it would be a big effort. A middle of the road thought would be to observe other boats as Axe isn't a strange design regarding beam and deadrise. There are the issues you mentioned re Matt's changes to the original design.
Boats are pointed fwd and mostly square aft so there's much more flotation aft and it varies w boats. Many trawlers float (even underway) bow down in appearence but in pics one can't see the underwater hull so some to many may be in trim despite what appears to be.
And if Matt is planing on running Axe over 8 knots the trim (as you mentioned I think) is even more important.
Good observation and advice moto.
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motogizmo
Member
Mat,
Can I suggest that minimum put 800 to 1000 pounds of gravel bagged up in the low keel when you launch for the first time, and have more ready if you need it. I really truly believe that you will need additional ballast down low to make her stable.
By increasing her (length and width) displacement you have moved her center of gravity up. By increasing her freeboard more of the same. Big windows, and steel in the upper superstructure (look great)...... the center of gravity moves farther and farther up. Once the CG gets above the water line SHE WILL ROLL OVER!!! That 800 pound Perkins only looks to be partially below waterline. The fuel tank looks to be splitting the waterline. The waterline is completely imaginary this point. I am worried for you my friend.
By using gravel or sand you can dump it without crating an environmental disaster. It will be easy to move for and aft. ITs cheep or free. You can move it around to get your rim right. I suspect you will be top heavy, and a (small ) risk of a roll over. I don't say any of this to piss you off, but I really want you to be safe! I hope all of my worry is for not.
I would also recommend NOT putting a bunch of fuel on board at first. If something goes wrong up here they charge you by the gallon. In the US that can be 10,000$ per gallon of oil on board if they can prove willful negligence.
I know there are several of you that are regular followers of this thread that are thinking the same thing. If we have a naval architect in the group that could help with some real weight and balance calculations please pipe in here.
Can I suggest that minimum put 800 to 1000 pounds of gravel bagged up in the low keel when you launch for the first time, and have more ready if you need it. I really truly believe that you will need additional ballast down low to make her stable.
By increasing her (length and width) displacement you have moved her center of gravity up. By increasing her freeboard more of the same. Big windows, and steel in the upper superstructure (look great)...... the center of gravity moves farther and farther up. Once the CG gets above the water line SHE WILL ROLL OVER!!! That 800 pound Perkins only looks to be partially below waterline. The fuel tank looks to be splitting the waterline. The waterline is completely imaginary this point. I am worried for you my friend.
By using gravel or sand you can dump it without crating an environmental disaster. It will be easy to move for and aft. ITs cheep or free. You can move it around to get your rim right. I suspect you will be top heavy, and a (small ) risk of a roll over. I don't say any of this to piss you off, but I really want you to be safe! I hope all of my worry is for not.
I would also recommend NOT putting a bunch of fuel on board at first. If something goes wrong up here they charge you by the gallon. In the US that can be 10,000$ per gallon of oil on board if they can prove willful negligence.
I know there are several of you that are regular followers of this thread that are thinking the same thing. If we have a naval architect in the group that could help with some real weight and balance calculations please pipe in here.
Tad Roberts
Guru
I'm a Naval Architect and I'm around....And I would be happy to help out if I can. Motog's idea of a float test is a good one.
While you can observe the trim and floatation afloat, you can also learn something about your boat's stability. A simple "how far does she heel when I stand on the rail" test can tell the accumulated experience of the forum quite a bit.
With the above test, some basic hull shape measurements, and measurements of vertical distance, rail to water (while afloat), I can estimate displacement and some basic stability info. This will also provide info on how to correct any trim problems.
While you can observe the trim and floatation afloat, you can also learn something about your boat's stability. A simple "how far does she heel when I stand on the rail" test can tell the accumulated experience of the forum quite a bit.
With the above test, some basic hull shape measurements, and measurements of vertical distance, rail to water (while afloat), I can estimate displacement and some basic stability info. This will also provide info on how to correct any trim problems.
