Automatic Identification Systems

I've been looking at AIS systems and would like to get feed back on the pros and cons of the system. And which ones work the best.

I can't really see any cons of AIS.

We have a Vesper Marine XB8000 which is chocked full of features. It has wifi thta can join or create its own network so you cna check the status of of it and also use the AIS display. It also bridges Nmea data to some programs too. Another feature is that it has a usb connection so you can bridge data from N2k to usb for use in programs like Open CPN or Coastal Explorer.

If i were doing it again i'd go for a Class A, but our next boat will have it. I just like to be able to list where I'm heading. Also I've heard some ships filter class b targets.

All the AIS class b systems work basically the same. They transmit your location information out, and receive other ships locations.

The part in my opinion that makes them useful is the ability to graphically display that information on your chart plotter or nav computer.

My system made by Furuno uses ethernet to communicate with my chart plotter, but I'm pretty sure it's propritary to Furuno for that function.

You need to start kinda backwards. Choose how you are going to display the ais data, then get an ais system that's compatible, which I would think most are since if memory serves correctly you can use a NMEA 0183 signal for the ais link to your chart plotter.

Its great to know where the big ones are and where they are going particularly in reduced visibility night and fog. Its also comforting to know that they have you on there plotter with course and speed info. Also by knowing the name of the boat direct radio communication is easier and more accurate.

N4712 said:

Also I've heard some ships filter class b targets.

Click to expand...

Hi Oliver,

I've heard the same rumors, but my experiences lead me to believe otherwise. I spent a lot of weekends this summer running into and out of Seattle, which is extremely busy with both commercial and recreational traffic.

I have observed on several occasions when I've been involved with complicated crossing situations that large commercial traffic has altered their course based on my AIS class B transmissions (they could not see me via Radar or visually at the time). One particular situation comes to mind that involved 5 vessels having to give way slightly and a tug with tow that was the stand on vessel for the other five. All six vessels did what they were supposed to like a well choreographed dance. It was impressive to watch.

To the OP, I have a Simrad AIS transceiver, which works well for me. It outputs NMEA 0183 and 2000, so the vessel data shows up on the Navigation PC's, the Furuno gear and the Simrad Chartplotters.

Of course, YMMV,

N4712 said:

We have a Vesper Marine XB8000 which is chocked full of features. It has wifi thta can join or create its own network so you cna check the status of of it and also use the AIS display. It also bridges Nmea data to some programs too. Another feature is that it has a usb connection so you can bridge data from N2k to usb for use in programs like Open CPN or Coastal Explorer.

Click to expand...

The Vesper XB-8000 looks like an interesting device with its built is WiFi. Now, if one installs a Garmin 7612 MFD with built in WiFi, not sure I see the need for the AIS black box to have WiFi. Am I missing something?

Well you could always connect the AIS to the Garmins network.

Or Just turn the AIS's network off then..

I'll make my plea for a Class A or Class B transceiver, NOT just a receiver. AIS is only as good as the number of boats that are transmitting and beign displayed. By sending and receiving, you are contributing to making the system better. If all you have is a receiver, then in my opinion you are taking without giving back in return.

As for Class A vs Class B, I've always been a staunch advocate of Class B. But in the past 6 months I discovered that Pugent Sound and Seattle VTS does not receive Class B AIS, only Class A. That doesn't mean the other ships aren't seeing you, but VTS is not. On a number of occasions I have heard VTS tell a boat that a particular route is clear when there are in fact Class B boats making their presence known in the area of interest. As a result I just recently upgraded to Class A. The cost was about $2000 compared to around $600 for class B, so not an insignificant difference.

But I still think that in 99% of situations, Class B is just fine and the extra cost of Class A isn't justified.

I also invested in Vesper XB-8000 and happy with performance.

Boydski said:

Hi Oliver,

I've heard the same rumors, but my experiences lead me to believe otherwise. I spent a lot of weekends this summer running into and out of Seattle, which is extremely busy with both commercial and recreational traffic.

I have observed on several occasions when I've been involved with complicated crossing situations that large commercial traffic has altered their course based on my AIS class B transmissions (they could not see me via Radar or visually at the time). One particular situation comes to mind that involved 5 vessels having to give way slightly and a tug with tow that was the stand on vessel for the other five. All six vessels did what they were supposed to like a well choreographed dance. It was impressive to watch.

To the OP, I have a Simrad AIS transceiver, which works well for me. It outputs NMEA 0183 and 2000, so the vessel data shows up on the Navigation PC's, the Furuno gear and the Simrad Chartplotters.

Of course, YMMV,

Click to expand...

Scott, not going to argue with you as your right for most cases but not all, but if i were doing it again i would go class a. Just for the sake of being able to put where im going and i believe it has more powerful TX.

twistedtree said:

I'll make my plea for a Class A or Class B transceiver, NOT just a receiver. AIS is only as good as the number of boats that are transmitting and beign displayed. By sending and receiving, you are contributing to making the system better. If all you have is a receiver, then in my opinion you are taking without giving back in return.

Click to expand...

Not everybody can afford an AIS transmitter, but at least receiving you can see what is going on around you and radio the boat to communicate with them. Something most cannot do. So taking I think not.

windmill29130 said:

Not everybody can afford an AIS transmitter, but at least receiving you can see what is going on around you and radio the boat to communicate with them. Something most cannot do. So taking I think not.

Click to expand...

You can only see them because they coughed up the $$ for a transceiver. So you are benefiting from his investment, but you have done nothing to return the favor. You benefit from the system only because others have invested the money to contribute via a transceiver. Yet you don't make the same contribution to benefit them. I think that's taking without giving.

twistedtree said:

You can only see them because they coughed up the $$ for a transceiver. So you are benefiting from his investment, but you have done nothing to return the favor. You benefit from the system only because others have invested the money to contribute via a transceiver. Yet you don't make the same contribution to benefit them. I think that's taking without giving.

Click to expand...

Most of these boats are large commercial ships, yes they can afford it and they are required to have it. If you choose to spend the money on it good for you. I'm sure there are items on my boat that I feel I need and you don't have on yours and vice versa, but I don't chastise you for not having them. We all have to balance our budgets versus safety and make decisions based on what fits us. According to you, me and those like me are taking, in turn there are more out there not giving or taking, that makes me at least halfway there.

I have a Ray unit - overlays on MFD and or my i70 stand alone instrument display.

I look at AIS as a "Belts and suspenders" tool - just one more "tool" to heighten your situational awarness.

I would not own a boat without one - assuming that you cruise and are not just a bay watcher.

Altruistic motives of giving back aside, I think there is simply a greater safety in other vessels ALSO seeing you and your track info. That to me makes it worth the investment. it's just a better situation when both parties have access to the same data.

Unfortunately our trawler did not come with AIS. we have a standalone USB unit which has very limited receive only range. When we get to electronics upgrade, installing a transceiver is a settled question.

twistedtree said:

You can only see them because they coughed up the $$ for a transceiver. So you are benefiting from his investment, but you have done nothing to return the favor. You benefit from the system only because others have invested the money to contribute via a transceiver. Yet you don't make the same contribution to benefit them. I think that's taking without giving.

Click to expand...

Awhile ago their was guy that was mad that some vessels over a certain length needed AIS because he didn't wanted the government tracking his every move. I got a good kick out of that.

I coughed up the $$ for a Si-tex receiver to use with my PC nav software and large monitor. The Furuno model (I have Furuno VX2 radar, plotter, sounder) was over twice as much $$ and it wouldn't talk to my nav software. I use it primarily to see and avoid commercial traffic. Maybe that's selfish of me, but I suspect most boats, like me, have radar to see me and others and if not, they probably don't have AIS either. Maybe I'll upgrade to a transceiver when I eventually upgrade my electronics, but I'm happy with receiving now.

windmill29130 said:

Most of these boats are large commercial ships, yes they can afford it and they are required to have it.

Click to expand...

Regarding class A, you are correct. However, for recreational boats, most have class B, which are much less expensive. In my opinion if someone is going to invest in in an AIS, might as well spend a little more (typically 300.00) and get the transceiver. Great tool and worth it to me.

I don't agree that having an AIS receiver somehow takes without giving. The more recreational boats transmitting, the more crowded a screen gets. I think having a receiver makes our boats more safe, as we can see and avoid the big boys. I have read that commercial ships don't like the clutter of us small fry.

I am going to get a Class B unit that transmits as well as receives, as I like that extra bit of safety.

Class A transmits with more power and is visible at about 4 times the range. If I were ocean-going I would pop for Class A. For my use, cruising the Puget Sound, a class B unit will be just fine.

Robster_in_edmonds said:

The more recreational boats transmitting, the more crowded a screen gets.

Click to expand...

This is what I don't get.

If you have lots of radar returns, do you blank out some of them?

If you visually see a crowd of boats, do you ignore some of them?

I just don't get this whole argument about "my screen is too cluttered". If there are lots of targets out there, I want to know, not put blinders on. If you need to focus in, change your viewing range. Or turn off boats that aren't moving or that are beyond some range. Those seem like reasonable filters.

Anyway, sorry if I'm offending with all this. I realize it's everyone's choice what they want to do, and I'm not saying everyone needs to have AIS. I'm just trying to encourage people who want to take advantage of the system and what it has to offer, to also help populate it with useful data by transmitting their own boat's movements. It's really a classic example of crowd-sourcing. Just imagine how useful (not) Active Captain would be if we all just read the reviews, but never posted any. It gets better and better precisely because we all contribute to it. Come to think of it, TrawlerForum is another good example....

I don't get it either. My screen has never been crowded, nor cluttered up as some have described it.

And, I'm not just worried about the big boys when its foggy.

Also, a couple of months ago someone here also complained that some boats leave their AIS's on when tied up at marinas. Really? That's a problem somehow? Seems like complaining just to complain.

Me 3. We live in the yachting capital of the world, and it doesn't crowd my plotter. Ok maybe if I'm zoomed out looking at the the whole southern part of FL but if I'm that zoomed out I'm not using it for navigation anyways.

It's good to know what the big ones are doing so we have an AIS receiver on board. But we don't have a transceiver since the big ones might suppress class B signals especially in those situations where I would like that they see me.
Therefore we consider AIS just as a contribution to our "active safety" rather than to "passive safety". We will never rely on the thought: "the big one has seen our tiny boat" - we will try to talk with him in any case of necessity.
That's it what AIS is helpful for us: to get name / call sign / MMSI of those big ones whose CPA seems a little bit too close (but AIS will not substitute RADAR in our opinion).
And if the big one is not answering our call and continues to come close we will go on the run ...



best regards / med venlig hilsen
wadden

waddenkruiser said:

It's good to know what the big ones are doing so we have an AIS receiver on board. But we don't have a transceiver since the big ones might suppress class B signals especially in those situations where I would like that they see me.
Therefore we consider AIS just as a contribution to our "active safety" rather than to "passive safety". We will never rely on the thought: "the big one has seen our tiny boat" - we will try to talk with him in any case of necessity.
That's it what AIS is helpful for us: to get name / call sign / MMSI of those big ones whose CPA seems a little bit too close (but AIS will not substitute RADAR in our opinion).
And if the big one is not answering our call and continues to come close we will go on the run ...



best regards / med venlig hilsen
wadden

Click to expand...

Sort of on topic: WATCH: Shipping Around The World In 1:40 : The Two-Way : NPR

twistedtree said:

But in the past 6 months I discovered that Pugent Sound and Seattle VTS does not receive Class B AIS, only Class A.

Click to expand...

Do you know if this is true of all USCG VTS stations?

Now that I think of it, Al (FlyWright) is leading a group on a tour of the San Francisco VTS Center sometime soon. Hey Al, if you're reading this, can you ask them while you're there if they only monitor Class A AIS? And, if so, why?

I have a class B transceiver. Love it and do rely on it just as I do radar. All shows up on my Garmin 7210 system.. I have had several communications from barges here in mobile bay or the rivers and they are glad we are sending as well for their own knowledge. It's simply not that much more cost wise to have both sending and receiving capability.

And, what about Canadian VTS - do they monitor both Class A and Class B?

Nsail said:

Do you know if this is true of all USCG VTS stations?

Now that I think of it, Al (FlyWright) is leading a group on a tour of the San Francisco VTS Center sometime soon. Hey Al, if you're reading this, can you ask them while you're there if they only monitor Class A AIS? And, if so, why?

Click to expand...

No, I don't think it is universal, in fact I think Puget Sound and Seattle may be outliers. I think the only other place I have engaged VTS has been going through the Cape Cod Canal. I didn't have to check in, but at one point they called me by name, presumably from my Class B AIS.

I'm not subject to Puget Sound or Seattle VTS either, but checked in anyway on our way in from the ocean since it was zero visibility the whole way. They were happy to hear from us, but couldn't see us on AIS.

twistedtree said:

No, I don't think it is universal, in fact I think Puget Sound and Seattle may be outliers. I think the only other place I have engaged VTS has been going through the Cape Cod Canal. I didn't have to check in, but at one point they called me by name, presumably from my Class B AIS.

I'm not subject to Puget Sound or Seattle VTS either, but checked in anyway on our way in from the ocean since it was zero visibility the whole way. They were happy to hear from us, but couldn't see us on AIS.

Click to expand...

Couldn't see you on AIS? But dont you have Class A ?