Go north young man! (Heading to Alaska)
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We hoped to see you and Al and some others and had it just been the two of us definitely would have. It was definitely a trip outside our norm. Sure got a much different understanding of Alaska. Seeing and experiencing is far different from reading and studying. I would say this too that like most things media sure doesn't present it very accurately. Shows like "Buying Alaska". Well, the majority of Alaskans don't live as some of those people seek to. You'd think it was really a primitive society. Never see a Safeway on that show. Even as you read stories of those who have been there, often they're just spectacular while most people lead far more normal day to day lives. Just the normal is different based on climate and surroundings. Interesting too to talk to people there and get their perception of Fort Lauderdale. They think we're all naked on the beach, partying all the time and having orgies. Oh, maybe that's right. lol. Just kidding but my experience over the years has been people are a lot alike wherever you go, just different habits and mannerisms and adapt to different conditions.
17-19 hours of light is sure different at first. You don't want to miss any of it. But you realize you must. I would think winters would be pretty horrible for those moving there with Seasonal Affective Disorder high. But I'm sure you learn to cope. At the start of our trip we didn't spend much time on the bridge when it was under 70 degrees. By the end we were all up top on some days of 60 degrees when the water conditions weren't too rough. Yes, in South Florida, people put on jackets below 70 degrees. lol. We laughed when we moved there but a few months later realized we were doing it too.
Honestly, when we first started making lists of places we most wanted to cruise, Alaska wasn't on it. But once we realized we'd be picking up a boat in Washington, it seemed stupid to not take advantage of the opportunity and we've very glad we did. As we got closer to the trip, we got more excited and we enjoyed it thoroughly. Now when we fly home for a bit at the end of the month we will also enjoy higher speed, warmer weather and all the insanity of South Florida.
We found people only talking inside passage and Southern Alaska when we started talking about it. We regretted we weren't going further than we did. But still we're glad we saw more. But for those with less time or speed than could spend months on the inside passage and southern area. For instance, we didn't explore BC at all and won't except for Victoria and Vancouver. Never made it to Bellingham with a change of plans. But then one thing we do is always leave enough to make us want to return. Never try to cover it all in one trip.
Alaskan Sea-Duction
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Well yes!!!! If Alaska was split in two, Texas would become the third largest state in the union! Glad you enjoyed your trip!
OP
OP
nautibeaver
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Long time needed update.
The trip was a success and learned a ton, especially being a big novice captain. We took 9 days to get up to Ketchikan. We saw some impressive stuff but did not spend enough time exploring. More of a speed date trip. Not sure if I would spend more time or power through and make it in less days. Seems everything to see (wildlife) was in SE Alaska rather than Canada. We left Ketchikan and headed for the prince of whales islands. Almost got tired of seeing whales, they were so plentiful. Figured we caught over 1k lbs of packaged fish (filled two chest geezers), tested the boat with some rough water (cracked a mirror in the bathroom. Lots of puckered nights on the hook, in questionable anchorages when we were running out of daylight. Did I mention it gets really dark there with no moon? Only problem on the trip was a failed water pump. Which I had a spare. Even had the pleasure of docking at the fuel dock and moorage in 40-45 knot winds.. Direct to the port...it was my toughest challenge to date, and made it out with out a scratch. I came back with some changes (reduce amperage usage, improve nobeltec computer, improve salt eater wash down GPM number) and already planning different trip next year. Family is excited for it (did I mention I took 5 kids and 7 adults on the trip up?) but has expectations of a trip with more wildlife (they were dropped off in Ketchikan) so we will leave boat there for a while and fly up over a few months. Then bring boat back.
I'll be posting about amperage usage improvements, Mac mini as new nobeltec computer and other improvements as I get more time. Thanks for all the advice, it helped a lot.
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The trip was a success and learned a ton, especially being a big novice captain. We took 9 days to get up to Ketchikan. We saw some impressive stuff but did not spend enough time exploring. More of a speed date trip. Not sure if I would spend more time or power through and make it in less days. Seems everything to see (wildlife) was in SE Alaska rather than Canada. We left Ketchikan and headed for the prince of whales islands. Almost got tired of seeing whales, they were so plentiful. Figured we caught over 1k lbs of packaged fish (filled two chest geezers), tested the boat with some rough water (cracked a mirror in the bathroom. Lots of puckered nights on the hook, in questionable anchorages when we were running out of daylight. Did I mention it gets really dark there with no moon? Only problem on the trip was a failed water pump. Which I had a spare. Even had the pleasure of docking at the fuel dock and moorage in 40-45 knot winds.. Direct to the port...it was my toughest challenge to date, and made it out with out a scratch. I came back with some changes (reduce amperage usage, improve nobeltec computer, improve salt eater wash down GPM number) and already planning different trip next year. Family is excited for it (did I mention I took 5 kids and 7 adults on the trip up?) but has expectations of a trip with more wildlife (they were dropped off in Ketchikan) so we will leave boat there for a while and fly up over a few months. Then bring boat back.
I'll be posting about amperage usage improvements, Mac mini as new nobeltec computer and other improvements as I get more time. Thanks for all the advice, it helped a lot.
Sent from my iPhone using Trawler Forum
Everyone becomes a kid on their first trip there. We had 11 people who made the entire trip and 8 others who joined us two or three at a time. Of the total 19 people, 2 had traveled most of the world by air. Four had thousands of sea days from the US to Europe to South America to the Pacific. But none other than an Alaskan Pilot/Captain we took had ever been to Alaska. It's so unique. Everywhere you go is a little different but Alaska is another world entirely. Every time someone new joined us and saw their first glacier they became a kid again. Every whale, every animal. Every area of human free nature. It may be 10 years of 15, but we will return one day. Perhaps with some new passengers. Maybe take our niece. She's only 6 months old now. Alaskans are truly a different breed of people as well. I'm referring to those who have lived there all their lives. They've adapted so well to the conditions and love the life they lead. We are ones to find little local stores and local crafts and then just talk to people and we found their lives so interesting. Now they found ours interesting but strange. Some were also concerned because they had kids who had moved or planned to move to the lower 48. We also recommend taking time off the boat long enough to fly over in a sea plane. If I lived in Washington, I'd have to go to Alaska two or three summers to experience more. We spent about two months and had a faster boat to cover more ground but we could have easily spent two or three times as long. We only got to visit 11 towns.
We had ages from 18 to 57 and all had a wonderful time. Nobody got bored or felt they'd ever seen enough.
One last Alaskan story. We had the mother of one of our best friends join us for three weeks. She is from Spain, lived in NY, and when her husband died back to Spain. In the two years she had been on many yachts, none under 200', and all around Europe. But she'd walked through the motions with no real joy in any of it. On the trip, on the first "little boat" she'd ever been on, with us and with her daughter, she found herself again. It was the perfect place to escape from sadness and the rest of the world. Her daughter was overjoyed to be able to say, "I have my mother back." Might it have happened if we'd been somewhere else? Yes. But it happened in Alaska and I think the setting did help it happen. A lot of people do move to Alaska to escape to a new way of living.
Al
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B&B- You are very complementary towards us "Alaskans Sourdoughs". "Cheechockos" find us different in various degrees. Flattery will win every time!
However, I have to ask. Somewhere in your dissertation you made mention of dirty water and that you hoped we (Alaskans) would do something about it. Could you elaborate? My first thought being that you had witnessed or partook of creek/stream water that was undulated with high water residue from some of our normal heavy rain conditions. This is asked as many of us have piped stream water directly into our rural homes or in our case, we collect water off the roof (Bird (Eagle mostly)dropping on rare occasion) treated with a dab of Clorox during the year (5000-+ gallon tanks),
Communities have treated water systems.
Was it some sort of human activity you witnessed that threatened the water? Or was it a salmon stream with tons of deceased fish laying about?
As I pondered your comment thinking of a proper response was stumped till just a few moments ago a quote from W.C. Fields came to my attention.
"I never drink water because of the disgusting things that fish do in it.."
- W. C. Fields
Al-Ketchikan (Bridge to Nowhere) Alaska
However, I have to ask. Somewhere in your dissertation you made mention of dirty water and that you hoped we (Alaskans) would do something about it. Could you elaborate? My first thought being that you had witnessed or partook of creek/stream water that was undulated with high water residue from some of our normal heavy rain conditions. This is asked as many of us have piped stream water directly into our rural homes or in our case, we collect water off the roof (Bird (Eagle mostly)dropping on rare occasion) treated with a dab of Clorox during the year (5000-+ gallon tanks),
Communities have treated water systems.
Was it some sort of human activity you witnessed that threatened the water? Or was it a salmon stream with tons of deceased fish laying about?
As I pondered your comment thinking of a proper response was stumped till just a few moments ago a quote from W.C. Fields came to my attention.
"I never drink water because of the disgusting things that fish do in it.."
- W. C. Fields
Al-Ketchikan (Bridge to Nowhere) Alaska
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
Thanks you guys!
It's threads like this that remind me why we live here.
Sometime look up a poem by an author who spent time here. The poem is called
The spell of the Yukon by Robert Service.
We were at San Diego Zoo a couple of months ago.
When we saw the polar bears I looked over at my wife and said " I'd bet I'm the only guy here today that has seen one of these in the wild." In reality I've been less than 10 feet from a polar bear in the wild.
It's threads like this that remind me why we live here.
Sometime look up a poem by an author who spent time here. The poem is called
The spell of the Yukon by Robert Service.
We were at San Diego Zoo a couple of months ago.
When we saw the polar bears I looked over at my wife and said " I'd bet I'm the only guy here today that has seen one of these in the wild." In reality I've been less than 10 feet from a polar bear in the wild.
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It was a combination of things. First was probably expectation. I think we thought of Alaska with glaciers and low population would have beautiful crystal clear water throughout. However there is a lot of run off that makes it more like some of the lakes around where I grew up and even the one we lived on. No one dived in our lake because they couldn't see more than two feet. That was just the makeup of the soil. Also, the issue of logs, trees, etc. Certainly the amount of rain at various times, impacts things. As a comparison we live on a typical Fort Lauderdale canal. Every house has a wall holding the land back and protecting against the water. Plus every lot is developed. So, there is virtually no runoff. It makes sense that a lesser populated and developed area is going to have far more collected with storms.
However, I also heard from locals of efforts to clean the water and read some of the problems that are being addressed on petroleum hydrocarbons in some areas. I looked at the state's division of water and see Juneau has five waterbodies that are impaired, each having a recovery plan. They list nine different areas as having problems. Some of the local fishermen made comments as well, and things we heard when visiting some of the fish processors, so much of that comment was both observations and anecdotal.
I'm not saying any of it can't be treated and made into drinking water. I certainly know many cities on major rivers that get their drinking water from the same lake they dump their sewage.
I guess for some reason I thought Alaska might be that one state with no water pollution issues and so it surprised me that it has problems like everyone else. And in appearance, perhaps I was expecting the Bahamas.
Didn't mean any of this as a slight or detracting from a wonderful visit, just as something that caught me a little by surprise. Ultimately it was a combination of what I was seeing but also concerns I heard from local residents.
Thanks you guys!
It's threads like this that remind me why we live here.
Sometime look up a poem by an author who spent time here. The poem is called
The spell of the Yukon by Robert Service.
We were at San Diego Zoo a couple of months ago.
When we saw the polar bears I looked over at my wife and said " I'd bet I'm the only guy here today that has seen one of these in the wild." In reality I've been less than 10 feet from a polar bear in the wild.
We don't like cold or long periods of darkness enough to personally live there, but visiting there we could definitely see the attraction and understand why many Alaskans would never think of living anywhere else.
I met a girl long ago on the Beach in Waikiki as we all laid out in the sun on a nice December day, listening to the live music from the nearby bar. She had lived most of her life in Hawaii but recently had spent time in Alaska. She was talking about returning to Alaska in a couple of days and how excited she was and how much she loved it versus Hawaii. At that time, I couldn't imagine why or how anyone could prefer going to the cold of Alaska versus the sunshine of Hawaii. I felt like I was in paradise and yet she felt Alaska was.
Well, now I do understand.
kulas44
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my wife and I spent 2 summers in Alaska, by motorhome, and loved it. A friend of mine and his wife vacationed there for a week several summers back. They enjoyed the "glacier cruises" on cattle boats with the dinner cruise agenda, and especially the various types of crab served but commented that Alaska was nasty, "dead fish everywhere, muddy water full of trees and crap" etc. I asked him why he thought Alaskan crab was so good, he had no answer !!!!
Al
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Oops! Did I roll my eyes out loud?
Alaska Crab are so good because they eat the "Dead Fish Everywhere"
And trees don't fall in the Bayou?
Bears "Crap" Deer "Crap" and do it "Everywhere"
and during the floods in New Orleans- Some mud?
Just saying folks, every place can and does have closets with items of distaste as viewed by the dis-taster
.
Come again my forum acquaintances, take a bit more time to learn the "Why from enlighten life long residents,share some smoked salmon and clam chowder.
-
Al
a promise to the forum "Gods" the last word
Alaska Crab are so good because they eat the "Dead Fish Everywhere"
And trees don't fall in the Bayou?
Bears "Crap" Deer "Crap" and do it "Everywhere"and during the floods in New Orleans- Some mud?
Just saying folks, every place can and does have closets with items of distaste as viewed by the dis-taster
.Come again my forum acquaintances, take a bit more time to learn the "Why from enlighten life long residents,share some smoked salmon and clam chowder.
-
Al
a promise to the forum "Gods" the last word
Oops! Did I roll my eyes out loud?
Alaska Crab are so good because they eat the "Dead Fish Everywhere"
And trees don't fall in the Bayou?
and during the floods in New Orleans- Some mud?
Just saying folks, every place can and does have closets with items of distaste as viewed by the dis-taster
Come again my forum acquaintances, take a bit more time to learn the "Why from enlighten life long residents,share some smoked salmon and clam chowder.
-
Al
a promise to the forum "Gods" the last word
Not by any means implying there aren't many places with dirtier water. Not to offend anyone but you're right on New Orleans. By night how wonderful. By day, you just stare. And the bayous may look exciting on television but not my cup of tea. In my mind Alaska was wonderful. We were surprised, primarily because of unreasonable expectations, that the water wasn't cleaner and much of the concerns we gathered about it came from lifelong Alaskan residents and from fisheries. Just the comment was contained within all my praise for the state.
There were times in the spring that you did not want to get out on the lake I grew up on. When the ice and snow melted, the lakes would generally rise about 4'. That pulled everything possible off the banks and into the water. And the water turned brown. And there were fish advisories for both Mercury and PCB's.
Our local small town newspaper published an article last April Fools Day on the front page announcing plans to drain the lake in May. Now understand this was a very large lake with depths averaging about 70'. They said when the lake was built a gate at the bottom of the dam was built just for this. Advised not to worry about your docks and boats, they'd just rest gently on the bottom in the mud. The lake would then be refilled by everyone taking their garden hoses and turning the water on and placing the other end in the lake. There would be no fees for water usage during that time. Fish would all be crowded into small water pockets in the deepest parts of the lake so no fishing would be allowed during that time. I think this definitely topped their report from a year earlier on building a 35 foot Buddha on the lake.
Here is the link to that article.
Poor water quality prompts plan to drain Lake Norman | CorneliusNews.net
ksanders
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That is the first time I have heard anything like this. To be honest it sounds like some folks having issue with the logging industry in Southeast Alaska.
Since your trip was limited to southeast Alaska, and since there is a very vocal minority down there that are anti everything, that's where I'll bet it came from.
The simple fact is that logging will impact nearby streams. Whether we are for or against logging in Alaska, streams are impacted in that localized vicinity.
I can assure you that while you saw a small portion of our state, in general, and of course there are exceptions, the water in Alaska is as it always has been.
Just like you described water takes on a tint based on what is in it.
Glacial water is grey due to the fine rock particles.
Water from peat swamps can be brown due to whatever particles the peat swamp puts in it.
Runoff has a brown tint from the soil particles.
The majority of streams carry some color, with glacier being the most prevalent.
My trip went to Seward and Kodiak and Valdez.
You're right as to the logs being more talked about in SE Alaska. Water quality seemed more an issue in Juneau than anywhere else we went. And the biggest complaints we heard from fishermen was in Wrangell.
I'm afraid my comments on being surprised are being built into far more than they were intended to be. Guess that is an area we hadn't done our homework before going or perhaps read books that described just specific small areas. We hit Alaska in Mid June and I don't know how much spring runoff there is at that time either. It was a beautiful state. Just in my imagination I figured it would be a state free of any water pollution issues. They're probably still minor compared to other states. I'd also probably seen too much "Buying Alaska" where perhaps there's a little exaggeration. On it's counterpart show, Hawaii is made to be perfect. Not like we're going to promote a location and give the entire picture. If I want to promote Fort Lauderdale, I might not be totally unbiased.
And I didn't know glacier water had a grey tint before seeing it. I saw white glaciers, guess I expected clear water. Although guess the glaciers aren't a true white when one thinks about it, but they're sure beautiful and imposing. We actually chartered in Valdez to get a closer view at them in that area. And we did spend a day in Glacier Bay.
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BDofMSP
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I think that's the point being made here. People think of glaciers as pristine pure water from the ancient past. And while they are generally from a human pollution perspective, they also carry TONS of sediment that they have scraped up over the millenia. I know I was very surprised when I first saw the glacial streams in Alaska - I thought I'd be dipping my cup in for drinks! I quickly learned that my water filter would clog almost immediately if I didn't filter out of a pan after settling. Once I knew, it made complete sense. I just didn't expect it.
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
Yes, as I indicated there is a very vocal minority in Juneau.
I don't need to tell you this but spring runoff isn't polluted. Its just spring runoff.
That said, wherever there are people there is going to be non natural things there, IE pollution of some sort. More people, more pollution.
Just remember that many of the reports of pollution you hear are propagated by a group of people that have an agenda for our state. An agenda paid for by big money from environmental groups that for the most part have never been here.
Honestly, the one I didn't figure out was on the state site talking about pollution some of the lakes and the petroleum content (now this started in 1994) and blaming it on the number of boats, especially the two cycles. I know they tested and found it high, I just had to wonder where this massive onslaught of leaky boats was or if they'd all run away. I sure figured if boats were causing too much petroleum content in the water then we were in some big trouble in Fort Lauderdale.
Obviously true. Muddy and trashy sometimes depending on the land. Just whatever it picks up along the way.
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
That one is suprising. Any chance you could PM or post a link? I am very curious.
My guess is that they are talking about Big Lake, but thats just a guess. Big Lake is probably the most developed lake in the area, but most lakes in populated areas are ringed by houses and every house has at least one boat and generally more parked out front.
Yes, thinking about it I could see increased petrolium levels on our lakes in habitated areas. Even though I live on a lake, I never really think of lake pollution. Our lake is very clear, and holds some gigantic native rainbow trout, and I for one am glad that few people fish for them, or I suppose even know they are there.
Good guess. Big Lake was one. Lake Lucille.
Here is the link to the Waters in the Spotlight.
State of Alaska - Department of Water - WQSAR - Non-Point Source Water Pollution Control - Waters in the Spotlight
I was actually quite impressed that the state is highlighting and address areas. Every state should have such a program and the transparency. The lake I grew up on has problems.
Just for comparison, here is the NC listing and it's Mercury, PCB's and Dioxin.
NC DPH: Occupational & Environmental Epidemiology: Current N.C. Fish Consumption Advisories
In Florida it's Nutrient Pollution.
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
Thanks
I know Big Lake and Lucille, both are very close to my home lake.
Both have a large ammount of PWC's on them. PWC's are very popular on our interior lakes in Alaska. Big lake is one of the few lakes that has more than residential use. Big lake has a couple of marinas, restraunts, etc... It is a very popular weekend destination.
Hopefully as the older PWC's age out of use being replaced by more enviromentally firendly four stroke units the problem will mitigate itself.
You're right and older outboards. For all those upset over the move from 2 to 4 cylinder, this is the perfect example of why.
Al
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Then you have old Al- When my 2 cycle 6 hp Evenrudes fails, I find another old good runner 2 cycle for $200/300 bucks on Craiglist and am off again tooting and pallooting.
In all seriousness, somewhere recently I read where the 2 cycle tech improvements have the 2 cycle bettering the 4 cycle in pollution control and fuel burn (Gas and Diesel). At any rate, improvements are being made. At some point even I will make the move. Trust me, I recently acquired a Iphone. This from a rotary dial cell phone!!
Al
In all seriousness, somewhere recently I read where the 2 cycle tech improvements have the 2 cycle bettering the 4 cycle in pollution control and fuel burn (Gas and Diesel). At any rate, improvements are being made. At some point even I will make the move. Trust me, I recently acquired a Iphone. This from a rotary dial cell phone!!
Al
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Exactly.
You can tell it's a glacial stream from the rock powder in it. Glaciers grind rocks, this the powder.
When I lived in Fairbanks the first time, our water was brown, due to decayed organic material and dissolved minerals. All natural.
tpbrady
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BandB,
Having kept my boat in Wrangell for the last two years, what were the fishermen complaining about? The water in Wrangell goes from very clear and pristine looking, to murky and filled with debris. All of that is a function of tides and the Stikine River. Go south about 5 miles and it is generally always clear. The worst harbor I have seen in Alaska for "pollution" was Whittier, but a lot of that dates back to WWII with fuel storage and to poor harbor management. That's why it was picked as the location to film a Cold War movie about a Russian submarine base. I've been to one and the resemblance is striking.
As far as logs in the water are concerned, most of those seem to be the result of landslides, when a large portion of the mountain side covered with forest let's loose down to rock and slides into the water. If you look at mountain sides all over southeast Alaska you will see the scars of these landslides. The amount of logging going on in southeast Alaska is a very small fraction of what it used to be and most is not directly on the coast. While logs are dumped into the water inside of log booms, I can't recall seeing any log booms being towed. All the logs I saw being transported were on barges that were loaded from logs in the floating booms. I have also spent a lot of time walking beaches and shorelines (the lab needs 3 a days to keep him happy), and I can't say I've seen many whole logs that were obviously harvested washed up.
As Al said earlier, the amount of debris in the water in southeast Alaska is directly related to the tide levels. On the highest of the high tides, trees and debris that were safely on beach in November may be floating again in March.
Tom
Having kept my boat in Wrangell for the last two years, what were the fishermen complaining about? The water in Wrangell goes from very clear and pristine looking, to murky and filled with debris. All of that is a function of tides and the Stikine River. Go south about 5 miles and it is generally always clear. The worst harbor I have seen in Alaska for "pollution" was Whittier, but a lot of that dates back to WWII with fuel storage and to poor harbor management. That's why it was picked as the location to film a Cold War movie about a Russian submarine base. I've been to one and the resemblance is striking.
As far as logs in the water are concerned, most of those seem to be the result of landslides, when a large portion of the mountain side covered with forest let's loose down to rock and slides into the water. If you look at mountain sides all over southeast Alaska you will see the scars of these landslides. The amount of logging going on in southeast Alaska is a very small fraction of what it used to be and most is not directly on the coast. While logs are dumped into the water inside of log booms, I can't recall seeing any log booms being towed. All the logs I saw being transported were on barges that were loaded from logs in the floating booms. I have also spent a lot of time walking beaches and shorelines (the lab needs 3 a days to keep him happy), and I can't say I've seen many whole logs that were obviously harvested washed up.
As Al said earlier, the amount of debris in the water in southeast Alaska is directly related to the tide levels. On the highest of the high tides, trees and debris that were safely on beach in November may be floating again in March.
Tom
They were complaining about murky and filled with debris. Saying it use to be clearer. But then fishermen will complain most everywhere about something others are doing to ruin things. They care passionately so they do.
The reasons for debris is typical for all places from the Tenn Tom to the lake I grew up on. We'd have a week every spring you thought the lake was horrible. Muddy from water off the banks, debris pulled into the lake. It would quickly go from lake to lake down the river. I'd say there was a difference from the beginning of our trip to the end.
I loved Alaska. The mention of surprise that the water wasn't perfect and pristine was one sentence out of 29 paragraphs and many other posts and I think since it's become far too much of the focus. It wasn't meant to be some huge condemnation. As to the water quality problems, Alaska has some like every state, probably less than most. I guess I was surprised there was any issue. Certainly the problems contributed to two many 2 stroke engines wasn't one I'd ever expected. Alaska is still beautiful. We enjoyed our trip immensely. It was one comment as to something that surprised me a bit, really from a misconception. It was my thought at that time but among so many thoughts I had during the two months we traveled about 4500 miles.
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
Well, I for one am glad you enjoyed you trip, and would like to welcome you back in the future. Like all places Alaska has its very unique enviroments, and I welcome anybody that wants to come explore the last frontier.
