FL to Bahamas to T&C to USVI: Stabilizers?

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tcpip95

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If you were travelling regularly between FL waters (coastal cruising) and running over to the Bahamas, T&C, and USVI, would the investment in stabilizers be a worthwhile expense? I realize this a "how many angels can fit on the head of a pin" type of question, but doing that type of cruising for next 5 years, are stabilizers worth it? Time is not a question, as I'd be living aboard anyways - and retired - so I could wait for weather windows, but I've read that on these types of boats you don't want to get out of the ICW without stabilizers, and wanted to get people's thoughts.

The boat in question would be a DeFever 49, or GB 46 or a boat of that general size.
 
Yes. You need them.
 
I have done the Bahamas crossing several times in a sailboat, but never in a trawler. Sailboats with their weighted keel below, a mast 60' in the air, a steadying sail but with a round bottom don't roll as much as my semi-displacement hull trawler does.

On one of those Gulf Stream crossings I would have been glad for stabilizers but obviously survived without them. The other three crossings, the roll wasn't bad enough to worry about it. The one semi bad crossing we were in 4-5' waves with confused seas and 10-15 kts of wind. That is almost at my limit in our trawler.

So stabilizers will let you be comfortable in most conditions and will allow you to make crossings that you wouldn't do otherwise. Cruisers pile up by the dozens at West Palm Beach waiting for light southerly winds to make their crossing.

Going all of the way to the USVI will put you in similar rough conditions as the Gulf Stream crossing. The Mona Passage between the DR and PR is as notorious as the Florida Gulf Stream. If you have any thoughts of moving down the Leeward Islands chain, then definitely consider stabilizers as you will be in the strong trade winds between islands with the wind on your beam. Sailboats love this, but trawlers don't.

So it depends how many times you make these rough passages and how willing you are to spend the $50K or better for stabilizers to be more comfortable.

David
 
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The Bahamas you can pick your weather. They would help, but not necessary. Beyond that is a definite yes. Richard on Dauntless has done it both ways, so he knows best.
 
Yes, I would get them in your position. We have Naiads and are very happy with their performance. Definitely a two thumbs up recommendation.


PS- If anyone wanted to order a TF shirt time is quickly running out. PM me if interested, don't hijack this thread please.
 
Our vessel is with a very similar hull (1 foot off transom) to the DF 49. The 48 is a lower CG. Our vessel is stabilized, lots of similar but older DFs are not. We often in big seas compare roll with and without stabilizers. Big difference and for long passages the comfort of the crew says yes, have them.

The boat will survive without them unless you pack the upper deck with big dinghy, grill, ice maker and other heavy stuff. Amazing how many do and they're still afloat but kept near the dock vs going offshore.

If you're able to get a vessel with the stabilizer blocks glassed in during the build, that is preferable. Art laid out his ER for the correct stabilizer placement and was an early pioneer in yachts being designed with them, way back in the early 70s. For the past 15 years or so most/all DFs have them.
 
If you are just going to the Bahamas & Abacos you don't need them if you are patient and wait for a weather window. I have friends that go over every year in 30 foot and less cabin cruisers like Searays and center consoles. Just remember, the boat can handle a lot more than you can. 46 or 49 Defever no problem.
 
I'll be perfectly honest I do not know anything about the exact area you are asking about.

That said, what I do know quite a bit about is captaining a unstabilized boat in the open ocean.

You can of course take almost any boat almost anywhere it has fuel endurance to go to. I'll guarantee I could take my Bayliner, and you could take a similar boat as well.

What you will find out is that in a head sea a unstabilized "coastal cruiser" is pretty comfortable in any reasonable sea.

You will find that in a trailing sea a typical unstabilized coastal cruiser is also very comfortable so long as the seas are not so large thart the boat tends to broach, and oor the autopilot can't provide enough rudder to maintain directional control.

Beam seas are another story. This is where the stabilized boat shines. This is somewhat mitigated by the use of power in a unstabilized boat to cause the aft end to squat into the water a bit, which flattens out the rolling.

What I have found is that on almost any day where the seas are 6' or so I can tolerate a direct beam sea just fine with the use of some power. Taking back and forth will also work quite well.

Would a stabilized boat be better? Yes, of course. Is it necessary? No, it is not.

I'm not going to argue against stabilizers, not a chance. But I will argue, and can prove it that stabilizers are not necessary to have a reasonably comfortable ride in a direct beam sea in the open ocean. Just choose your travel days, and or burn some fuel to get there faster, or make the ride more comfortable.
 
ksanders said:
I'll be perfectly honest I do not know anything about the exact area you are asking about.

That said, what I do know quite a bit about is captaining a unstabilized boat in the open ocean.

You can of course take almost any boat almost anywhere it has fuel endurance to go to. I'll guarantee I could take my Bayliner, and you could take a similar boat as well.

What you will find out is that in a head sea a unstabilized "coastal cruiser" is pretty comfortable in any reasonable sea.

You will find that in a trailing sea a typical unstabilized coastal cruiser is also very comfortable so long as the seas are not so large thart the boat tends to broach, and oor the autopilot can't provide enough rudder to maintain directional control.

Beam seas are another story. This is where the stabilized boat shines. This is somewhat mitigated by the use of power in a unstabilized boat to cause the aft end to squat into the water a bit, which flattens out the rolling.

What I have found is that on almost any day where the seas are 6' or so I can tolerate a direct beam sea just fine with the use of some power. Taking back and forth will also work quite well.

Would a stabilized boat be better? Yes, of course. Is it necessary? No, it is not.

I'm not going to argue against stabilizers, not a chance. But I will argue, and can prove it that stabilizers are not necessary to have a reasonably comfortable ride in a direct beam sea in the open ocean. Just choose your travel days, and or burn some fuel to get there faster, or make the ride more comfortable.
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Kevin, from what I understand the Defever is closer to a FD boat so applying squat. (Pun intended) Of course it's possible for most of any boats to do this, I have a friend that use to run boats that rich Haitians bought from the states to Haiti. But those were triple engine go fast CC boats..
 
The trip to the Virgins includes hundreds of miles straight east with the Atlantic swells on the beam. You can do it without stabilizers - it has been done but it is not pleasant.

I agree with those who suggest they are worthwhile. Especially if this is not a one way trip. Stabilizers become even more important if you go south of the Virgins as the trades will put 5ft plus seas on the beam on a calm day.
 
I suggest that you book a flight to Antigua. Charter a nice 45-50 ft sailboat and sail it to Martinique and back. Then rethink an un-stabilized power boat. Or a power boat at all. The Bahamas has rough sea conditions but periods of calm. Once you get to the Turks and Caicos latitude there is rarely a day that the ocean is not in motion. Even in a "protected" anchorage you frequently will roll your guts out! A little investigation in person will give you a good idea of the situation. Go to St. Thomas and charter a Grand Banks from VIP Charters. Set a course for St. Croix and see how far you get.......
 
FL to Bahamas to T&C to USVI: Stabilizers?

A trip to the Caribbean is also one of my long-term plans, if the Admiral agrees.

My boat is unstabilized however, and
active fin type stabilizers will not fit. I could add a full (factory) sail rig for about the same price as active fins since my boat is basically a motorsailer without the rig, and if the Caribbean plan looks like it might become a reality I might do that to since I would be getting stability plus a "get home" system.

I have not yet looked into installing a less expensive, paravane-type stabilizing rig-- not sure that kind of rig could be installed on my boat, and I don't know how it would look. Don't those cost around $10,000-$20,000 to install, depending how much you do yourself?

The masts you see in this pic are not mine...

ImageUploadedByTrawler Forum1424438881.326939.jpg
 
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Cardude your boat might be fine with a short sailing rig. You would have to look at ballast. I don't know if your boat has any and what the comparison with the sailboat version is. But having some canvas up will make your boat much more comfortable off shore.
 
Billyfeet,

It has the same 5000 LB ballast of the sailboat version if I'm not mistaken.
 
The question is what price for some more Comfort?

You sure do not need them just to make the trip.

But if you will be running cargo, "multiple trips back & forth", over years , they would ease the required waiting for a good weather window.

The Trades start in Africa so 090 to 015 @ 5 K to 15K is the norm , stronger in the winter.

A Spare $50K , why not , the maint isn't that bad.

Buy a boat with them installed , no need to pay $50K to install them on a used boat.
 
Paravanes are wonderful. The cost is not likely as high as you cited. However consider whether your's is a proper boat for the Caribbean. (I have no knowledge.)

The Caribbean is 95% sailboats with a few full displacement trawlers. The boats are equipped to live at anchor for the bulk of the season.
 
Bay Pelican said:
The Caribbean is 95% sailboats with a few full displacement trawlers. The boats are equipped to live at anchor for the bulk of the season.
Click to expand...

But is that a factor of cost rather than vessel ability?
 
Never gave a thought to the cost issues. I know a number of friends with sailboats more valuable than our Krogen.

My theory is that very few trawlers are full displacement and it is the full displacement trawlers which come down here.
 
I think this whole concept of what boats are actually pretty much full time cruising has much to do with the people doing the cruising.

Its impossible to argue that stabilizers do not provide a better ride.
It's impossible to argue that a FD boat with stabilizers will not give a better ride.

So, the people that g full time cruising tend to buy that type of boat.

Thats not to say that a non stabilized SD boat cant do it comfortably. Its just not the typical boat of choice for those making a cruising lifestyle in those kind of conditions.
 
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Bay Pelican said:
Never gave a thought to the cost issues. I know a number of friends with sailboats more valuable than our Krogen.

My theory is that very few trawlers are full displacement and it is the full displacement trawlers which come down here.
Click to expand...

I can only speak to our experience. We've sailed a 43 ft and a 50 ft sailboat; now we have the Selene. The sailboats were cheaper to buy and operate. The trawler is more comfortable a home. I'd rather have the sailboat than the trawler in rough seas but the overall living comfort of the trawler is light years ahead of the sailboat.

Anyway, i digress. I think its overall less expensive to operate a sailboat than a trawler and that helps account for the large amount of sailboats in the caribbean vs. Trawlers.
 
Its funny the differing opinions we see here on TF vs another forum I am active on, the Bayliner Owners Club.

Tonight there is going on a discussion about the Bahamas. Several members have indicated that they regularly explore that area in their 38' Bayliners, and I beleive at least one does it on his 32' Bayliner.

Of course these are unstabilized, SD boats. :)

Its not the boat that makes the trip guys, its the captain. His skill, his judgement. Any boat can do almost anything within its fuel endurance.
 
ksanders said:
Its funny the differing opinions we see here on TF vs another forum I am active on, the Bayliner Owners Club.

Tonight there is going on a discussion about the Bahamas. Several members have indicated that they regularly explore that area in their 38' Bayliners, and I beleive at least one does it on his 32' Bayliner.

Of course these are unstabilized, SD boats. :)

Its not the boat that makes the trip guys, its the captain. His skill, his judgement. Any boat can do almost anything within its fuel endurance.
Click to expand...


Yes, but realize that the jumps being made say across the gulfstream is only 50 miles. Then you have bank which is nice and shallow so it doesn't kick up too much. Then say from Bimini to Exumas, cross the nice bank then make 50 something mile run over deep water then your back in nice shallow water but after that it's all deep water and exposed.
 
Capt.Bill11 said:
You mean other than all the SD boats like GBs for charter down there? :D
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Sorry didn't mean to confuse things. There is a difference between the Virgins and the Eastern Caribbean. If you are in the Virgins and stay there wave conditions are relatively calm. If you go south to the Eastern Caribbean you enter the trades with the almost constant 15kt winds from the east and the resulting waves on the beam. If you go west from the Virgins and take the north side of Puerto Rico or further west to the Dominican Republic you have the Atlantic swell coming from the north as you are traveling east and west.

In six years in the Eastern Caribbean I have yet to notice a Grand Banks or other semi-displacement trawler among the smaller cruising boats. Will admit haven't spent a lot of time around St. Martin where it might be different.

As far as comparative costs between the trawlers and the sailboats you have raised my interest and I will pay attention to that in the future. A conversation with one sailor also from Chicago over dinner last night highlights the complexity of the comparison. He sailed for 30 years out of Chicago. Many Macs and other races. When he retired and started cruising he found his good size sailboat inadequate. She needed a generator, roller furling, upgraded refrigeration, a bigger battery bank, water maker, SSB, etc etc.

Admittedly the charter boats, mostly 40 to 50 ft cats now, are stripped boats. Don't know how much they are worth but friends who have bought one of them for cruising have spent a large amount of money equipping the boat after purchase.
 
"Friends who have bought one of them for cruising have spent a large amount of money equipping the boat after purchase.

This is the norm, the equipment and requirements for an coastal cruiser or dock queen are not what is required for independant living , months between power posts.

Only purchase a vessel that is doing what your goal is , or be prepared for a years work and a wheelbarrow of cash , and lots of compromises.
 
ksanders said:
Its funny the differing opinions we see here on TF vs another forum I am active on, the Bayliner Owners Club.

Tonight there is going on a discussion about the Bahamas. Several members have indicated that they regularly explore that area in their 38' Bayliners, and I beleive at least one does it on his 32' Bayliner.

Of course these are unstabilized, SD boats. :)

Its not the boat that makes the trip guys, its the captain. His skill, his judgement. Any boat can do almost anything within its fuel endurance.
Click to expand...

The Bahamas is not the same animal as the Caribbean. There is a reason they call Georgetown "chicken harbour".

And believe me, the right boat can make all the difference in a trip.
 
Thanks for everyone's feedback. To me, I'm taking away the following:

1. I'm going to need stabilizers to be comfortable. I could make the occasional trip without them, but if this is going to be a full-time thing, life would be pretty bad without them.
2. I should make every attempt to get a boat with stabilizers already installed. It would (hopefully) be cheaper than retrofitting them on an older boat.
3. Alternatively, if I just can't afford a boat with stabilizers, I should be looking at a sailboat, which will make for a more comfortable passage and would be lower cost.

Any other thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Would especially love to hear more about the sailboat option - particularly monohull vs. catamaran in terms of making up for the comfort lost compared to a trawler.
 
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