New Long Thin, Hyper-Efficient Trawler

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What?

At best, this design appeals to folks who want a sail boat. And guess what, for the money, they buy a really nice SAIL BOAT.

Thanks.

I am and always have been on the side of sail for long blue water use. It has to do with my perception of sea keeping abilities comfort and general safety and yes there is also economy even under power a sail boats long thin hull is efficient. Not all sea going sail boats have to be heavy clam crusher types many lighter modern designs including multi hulls have more than proven there blue water ability. So why the trawler for blue water? I can only make some guesses. Some people for various reasons are not familiar with sail or up for dealing with the sails and rig, others want or need more cottage in there boat volume home comforts big windows particularly while on hook or dock etc.. It comes down to the ubiquitous matter of personal preference. But I will still say the well found sail boat is better suited for the blue water use and that is no secret the very vast majority of pleasure boat ocean hopers are and have been sail boats. Trawlers are new kids on the block.
 
I beg to differ. Tad Roberts line of "Passagemaker Light" vsls have been made in Wood/epoxy.
I haven't followed it in a while but someone had a nice build going in South Africa of one of these.
 
I once heard a rhyme: "Long and thin gets `em in, short and thick does the trick". Wonder if that applies other than to boats?:ermm::nonono:
 
What?

Hasn't anyone noticed that of the one trillion boats that have been made, there are about 3 (three) long skinny ones!!!

.

Don't forget the long thin MVs from a century ago that were the standard for both blue water and coastal cruising.

Fortunately there are enough different old and new MV designs out there that all sorts of chuckles can be had.
 
I beg to differ. Tad Roberts line of "Passagemaker Light" vsls have been made in Wood/epoxy.
I haven't followed it in a while but someone had a nice build going in South Africa of one of these.

According to it's dedicated site "Ataraxia" is not completed and for sale (without engines).
I like the long/skinny concept and really hope the Artnautica LRC will be a success.
 
I'm seeing more and more "Long and Thin" designs. Here is another new one just launched - admittedly on the very expensive end of the market - but again, designed by a sailboat designer and sailboat building company I believe.

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Full story on this new boat here:Perini Navi's Amazing GRACE E

It seems that these design efforts on power boats from traditional sailboat designers (e.g. Dashew, and now the Artnautica) are building up steam and becoming even more popular each year.

Of course - they aren't for everyone, but I think that they'll gain more and more of the market as people learn about them..
 
You can probably tell at a glance those boats that lean toward efficiency as they won't have the very stylish and very raked stems. Stems leaning toward efficiency will be close to vertical to have the greatest WLL as practical. Nordhavn only built one raked stem boat ... The N46. It's a bit similar to my Willard and optimized to low fuel burn w/o much or any concern for speed. Most all the mega yachts have extremely raked bows.

The view from the bridge on the boat above must be a bit like the view from the bridge of a battleship but the battleship will have an extremely wide beam. Battleships are much bigger than their overall length would suggest.
 
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Ok maybe there should be a long lean/fuel cost ratio. So when fuel costs go up we would expect to see more long and lean activity talk or build, and when fuel prices dive less long and lean activity. As a side note the guy who designed and built my boat is trying to get someone to build a light skinny version claiming much improved fuel burn but then again his estimates of fuel burn seem to be optimistic in general.
 
Yes - shorter term price adjustments as we've seen will likely impact the shorter term demand for less fuel-efficient boats (as we've seen in the car market and Trucks/SUV sales recently). But I think the longer term trend, and general interest and emphasis on efficiency will move people in this direction over time.

Interestingly - was reading up on this forum about the European purchasing discussion - and stumbled upon another longer leaner design - one that looks very, very similar to the Dashew FPB - but a little more modern / European in its design. Check this out:

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Full Details, pricing and more images here:

http://www.elburgyachting.nl/sp/s5043nl.htm

"June 2012 - What is most striking when you look at the NED 70 of the Dutch company Ned Yacht is the length/width ratio of 4:1. The slender shape of this stunning new motoryacht is accentuated by the angle of the windows in the wheelhouse and the shape of the stanchions. This brand new motoryacht was designed by the international well-known Vripack Naval Architects according to the so-called ‘LDL-principle’. This means that not the ships volume is essential, but the lines of the ship itself are leading in the design. Of course the completely aluminium NED 70 is provided with all luxury you can image. But also the range of this special ship is stunning. You can cross the Atlantic and pick an anchor bay on Barbados, but also cruise the British east coast or the Dutch ‘Wadden-area’.

The lines of the NED 70 are sharp and angular. These contours make the yacht look slender and a little ‘mean’. Designed according to LDL, in which LDL stands for Low Displacement Length. A modern word, but a principle that is at least one century old. In the days that engines were not as powerful as they are nowadays it was essential to have a length/width ratio of at least 4:1 to make sure ships were able of good cruising speeds. To make sure that the NED 70 behaves well in waves, the hull is provided with bilge keels and stabilizers that will eliminate rocking in waves. The bilge keels have a second advantage: they make it possible to let the NED 70 easily dry out in tidal areas."

Technical specifications:
LOA : 21.45 m
BOA : 5.49 m
Draft : 0.96 m (at half load)
Propulsion : 2x John Deere 6068 SFM 50 M5, 300 hp/2.600 rpm
Cruising speed : 9 knots
Maximum speed : 15 knots
Range : 3.300 Nautical miles at 9 knots cruising speed
Fuel : 8.400 litres
Water : 1.500 litres
Designer : Vripack
Naval Architect : Vripack
Builder : NED Yacht BV

Source:

http://hollandyachtinggroup.com/EN/562/ned-70-slender-but-powerful.html
 
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I'm seeing more and more "Long and Thin" designs. Here is another new one just launched - admittedly on the very expensive end of the market - but again, designed by a sailboat designer and sailboat building company I believe.

Long thin...wide...hyper efficient. PJ Super Sport.

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The NED70 was built and featured in the JD Power Source publication Vol. 1. 2014 on the two pages after my boat. Yes it is a real boat not pie in the sky and the builders and designers are not out on the fringe. The only thing alien about this type of boat is that it does not conform to the cottage end of the boat/cottage ratio. Most who ply the TF don't appreciate long and lean. Please note that this is not a go fast boat it is designed to cross oceans at slow to moderate speeds with plenty of tankage. This boat may well compete with NH-KK for ocean hopping in style and economy. This boat can be bought for less than a NH or KK in the 55-65 foot range.
 
The NED70 was built and featured in the JD Power Source publication Vol. 1. 2014 on the two pages after my boat. Yes it is a real boat not pie in the sky and the builders and designers are not out on the fringe. The only thing alien about this type of boat is that it does not conform to the cottage end of the boat/cottage ratio. Most who ply the TF don't appreciate long and lean. Please note that this is not a go fast boat it is designed to cross oceans at slow to moderate speeds with plenty of tankage. This boat may well compete with NH-KK for ocean hopping in style and economy. This boat can be bought for less than a NH or KK in the 55-65 foot range.

NED makes some interesting boats but the vast majority of their sales are more traditional. They build one of the NED70 and one of their solar 50 passenger and zero or one of many of their other designs. It would be an interesting boat to take a demo ride on. Ironically I couldn't even find it on their site although I know it must be there somewhere. But far more designs there that sold boats.

As to the builders and designers being on the fringe, those who designed this are not fringe designers. However, that doesn't keep the boat itself from being on the fringe. Their e-cats are also very much outside the mainstream but very interesting. Zero emission, 40 meter trimaran for 150 passengers, solar, an event yacht, and a Swath tender. If you want to look on the fringes a bit, look at their floating islands. They have classic open boats and yachts as well and that's what they do mostly. They have some wild supersport models, a Megalodon Submarine Yacht, and they did a redesign on an Orca yacht. They are an adventurous and unique builder.

Do you know if they ever sold the NED 70? I ask because they don't show it in their selection of delivered yachts.
 
Do you know if they ever sold the NED 70? I ask because they don't show it in their selection of delivered yachts.

The full details on the NED 70, with photos of the owner, are on the VRIpack web site here:

NED 70 › Vripack

Strange that they don't have it listed on the NED website: Nedshipgroup | The world of wonderful yachts And yes - they could fill the "Interesting boats" thread with their own designs for months...

An interesting promo video on youtube here on the NED 70:

 
I can relate to the NED 70 it is a longer leaner aluminum version of my boat it even has the same motors 30 Hp less version. The NED is aimed more at long range and blue water capable while my boat more moderate, is aimed at protected water shorter range use. MY two year two summer 6 week cruises in the PNW have confirmed the practicality of the design. My take is that it is not necessary to go all the way long and lean and by leaning in that direction in a design and build one can have a better balance between boat and cottage provided that meets the use pattern. For those interested in a retirement home or live aboard cottage on the water that is not my boat and even the 70 ft NED may fall short on the cottage side of the scale especially compared to 55-65 foot typical trawler motor boat types. But for those who need less than a cottage on the water the more boat less cottage side of the ratio can work well. Admittedly 70 ft is a little out there for a mom and pop boat and its not just the price which may be less than big NH and KK its the scale of size 70ft is just long. I believe I saw a NED 70 advertised for $1.6 million.
 
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Doesn't appear those long-and-lean boats could maneuver in the typical marina.
 
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I've also just been looking at Nigel Iren's web site today. I haven't really followed him for a few years. He's done some really nice designs too that you might like if you're a fan of the LDL types of boats. Here are some images from his web site:

Hang-Tauh-Ext-01.jpg


The 41m (134ft) motoryacht HANG TUAH was designed for an experienced client living in the Far East looking for a seaworthy, comfortable and economical cruising yacht. Launched in 2009 the steel hull offers the practical advantages of strength and longevity. A pair of 500hp (373kW) engines give a top speed of 16 knots and a very economical cruising speed of 12 knots.

Molly-Ban-Ext-02.jpg


Launched by Tuco Marine Group in Denmark in 2008, this 62ft (18.9m) motorboat was designed for owners more used to the culture of sail. Having a maximum speed of 18 knots on a single 300hp (224kW) Cummins engine, MOLLY BAN’s easily-driven Low Displacement/Length ratio (LDL) hull can cruise very comfortably at 14 knots on 30 litres of fuel per hour. Drop the speed to 10 knots for a really quiet long-range cruise and MOLLY BAN returns a consumption of just 10 litres per hour (1 litre per nautical mile).


Source: Power Boats Archives - Nigel Irens Design
 
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Another good article on the design process for the NED 70 in Professional Boatbuilder magazine. An interesting read for anyone interested in these longer, efficient designs. Detailed engineering analysis - lots of indepth information.

Its also interesting that the current asking price for the NED70 for sale is only 50,000 Euro down from the initial purchase price of 1.8 Million Euros. Given current exchange rates - this is significantly less than the price of the Dashew FPB series.

http://www.vripack.com.3.cdn.iwink.nl/uploads/download/8fd78e03-52db-4c89-8062-acea402fa265/2833448420

Pricing information here:

http://www.vripack.com.4.cdn.iwink.nl/uploads/download/f8afd6ef-aa1f-4c43-a01f-108466243905/2833448423
 
LRC,
I like the ratio of house to hull. Hull being dominant. Too many pleasure boats have more house than hull.
 
LRC,
I like the ratio of house to hull. Hull being dominant. Too many pleasure boats have more house than hull.


Its that boat/cottage ratio thing again. No secret for most with an artistic bent the longer boat with the lower free board and house profile is preferred in power and sail and it has been that way a long time. The functional benefits of the above formula also come into play. The more recent trend of retired couples looking for voluminous live aboards has tilted a segment of the market toward the cottage side of the scale. Recently the cost of fuel and the scare of further inflation of fuel cost along with the technology to build light and strong has started to drive some designers and builders back to the boat side of the scale.
 
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Interestingly - I just found that the MOLLY BAN is for sale at 600,000 Euros / $681,000.

Details and photos here:

https://www.atlanticyachtandship.ru/en/catalog/view/217797/

And the real listing agent here:

http://www.berthon.co.uk/yacht-for-sale/nigel-irens-63-motor-yacht-molly-ban.pdf

and a video of it in action here:


Performance / fuel burn figures from a posting on Setsail.com:

"some figures from the 62ft / 19 metre Nigel Iren’s designed motorboat “Molly Ban”. She is an example of his thinking on long waterplane, displacement hulls; she is GRP, about 20 tonnes fully laden, with a single Cummins 305hp driving a conventional prop. I see numerous similarities between her and your concept, albeit Molly is more a coastal cruiser than a trans-oceanic yacht. She’s been in commission since May 2008 in the Irish Sea, English Channel and the Baltic, and her real world performance figures have been very consistent with the predictions. Her top speed is about 18 knots but the concept was always to have an economic cruise well below that. We thought about 13-14 knots would be about right, although he owner often prefers to come right back to 10 to 12. At 10 knots she uses 10 litres an hour in flat water(about 2.64 US gallons); at 7 knots she uses just 1 USG. Obviously at the upper end of the speed range things change; at 13 knots (2000 rpm), she is using 7.1 USG; flat out, at 18 knots, she uses about 14.5 USG. "

Source: SetSail FPB » Blog Archive » Fuel Burn, Range, and Margin For Error
 
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Another good article on the design process for the NED 70 in Professional Boatbuilder magazine. An interesting read for anyone interested in these longer, efficient designs. Detailed engineering analysis - lots of indepth information.

More like no in-depth information. The guy who wrote it was told by his boss, "Sure write it, just don't say anything." No where in the article does it state the boat's actual displacement, or waterline length, or load condition during any of the "comparisons". The author does not state what boat the NED 70 is being compared to in all the colourful graphs.

Its also interesting that the current asking price for the NED70 for sale is only 50,000 Euro down from the initial purchase price of 1.8 Million Euros. Given current exchange rates - this is significantly less than the price of the Dashew FPB series.

http://www.vripack.com.3.cdn.iwink....d78e03-52db-4c89-8062-acea402fa265/2833448420

Pricing information here:

http://www.vripack.com.4.cdn.iwink....afd6ef-aa1f-4c43-a01f-108466243905/2833448423

Initial offering price two years ago is one thing, price to get a new one built starting today will be much different. And asking and selling price can be very different numbers. None the less comparing a NED 70 and a FPB 64 is apples and oranges if you ask me.

The one is an attractive, reasonably priced, fast, stylish coastal cruiser. The other is a FPB......
 

We all are contradictions in various ways. I know we have some likes and dislikes you wouldn't see going together. So, the one I find humorous on that boat is... It's pretty much a minimalist approach and I didn't think the bow thruster was inconsistent with that (a stern thruster might have been), but no A/C, no satellites, no washer/dryer, no dishwasher. However, teak decking, teak cockpit. Two things that are certainly not necessary and are high maintenance and before you think I'm anti-teak, we have tons of it. But then we aren't minimalists by any nature.

It just struck me as somehow out of place.
 
We all are contradictions in various ways. I know we have some likes and dislikes you wouldn't see going together. So, the one I find humorous on that boat is... It's pretty much a minimalist approach and I didn't think the bow thruster was inconsistent with that (a stern thruster might have been), but no A/C, no satellites, no washer/dryer, no dishwasher. However, teak decking, teak cockpit. Two things that are certainly not necessary and are high maintenance and before you think I'm anti-teak, we have tons of it. But then we aren't minimalists by any nature.

It just struck me as somehow out of place.

I wonder if is real teak? I might have used cork or faux teak. Definitely not a cottage on the water but all a couple would need for a two to six week cruise in the PNW and many other places.
 
I wonder if is real teak? I might have used cork or faux teak. Definitely not a cottage on the water but all a couple would need for a two to six week cruise in the PNW and many other places.

The site says it is teak as I was looking at the detail. Now they could be calling fake teak, teak. I'd have my boat wear teak or nothing at all. Seriously, nothing wrong with just fiberglass for utility. I've look at a lot of faux teak including a good bit a builder had been testing for a long time and samples we got and tested on our patio. I think a couple of them are getting closer, but none of them are quite there yet. Then a few years ago laminate flooring all looked so obviously not real wood and today some of it is very difficult to distinguish. The other big problems faux teak has faced are heat and slipperiness.
 

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