Problems with Trawlers

Scary said "Varnish $50 a quart. Bottom paint can run $300 a gallon. Caulking $10- $22 a tube. It adds up fast, real fast."

Chuckle! I'd like to find a boat where you'd never have to buy these!


Jim
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Mule said:

After restoring a 34 Mainship, nothing mechanical, I started at $34,000 spent beyond 2x that. Buy a boat the work has already been done on or do not do this. Boat parts are measured in in troy ounces. You are better to finance and buy a better boat. Usually in the best case you will need to spend 10%, usually 20% to30%, upon purchase. No property tax, only electric and slip fees to deal with, can be cheap living but can also wipe you out. Be careful, very careful.

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Yes. All the advice is good.

To answer your question, the fact that a boat has been out of the water for 8 years depends on why?

Could be older owners or could be it's not affordable to make it sea worthy!

Keep looking.

I drove to Florida for thanksgiving. Find a broker down there to help you.

You want to live on this boat. They're about 1000 times more liveaboards down south than up north.

$$ wise you are far better off getting a boat that had been doing what you want to do.

I should add, that I would be concerned with the mechanical state of a boat that has sat on the hard for 8 years. The current owner would have to get the boat in condition for a sea trial. Don't even consider that sea trial without a good mechanic on board while you do it.

Then you could always put in a real low ball offer to take the boat "as is".


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

JDCAVE said:

Scary said "Varnish $50 a quart. Bottom paint can run $300 a gallon. Caulking $10- $22 a tube. It adds up fast, real fast."

Chuckle! I'd like to find a boat where you'd never have to buy these!


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

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Just today I installed some hawse pipes . I was using about a 15$ tube of caulk . I new it wasn't going to take all the caulk so I decided to work on my lazarette hatch framing so that I could use the whole tube of caulk . I almost took on too much work today just to keep from wasteing the rest of the caulk . My projects are usually organized to stop when I finish a tube or start something else that will finish a tube . I know that sounds crazy but I hate wasteing this expensive caulking .

JDCAVE said:

I should add, that I would be concerned with the mechanical state of a boat that has sat on the hard for 8 years. The current owner would have to get the boat in condition for a sea trial. Don't even consider that sea trial without a good mechanic on board while you do it.

Then you could always put in a real low ball offer to take the boat "as is".


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

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If the boat isn't in the water running for a sea trial then I'd value the engines at zero assuming having to replace them. I think one has to assume the worst.

Save the caulk....... Seal end with blue tape, electrical tape, duct tape or whatever, take out of the gun...walk to your freezer..place tube of not empty caulk in freezer to be used another day. It will stay ready for months.

Great tip, Mule, but I'll need that caulk quickly thawed to seal the wounds I'll get when my Admiral finds it next to her truffles in the freezer.

A good oil analysis will tell you what type of metal it is and where it is likely coming from. It will be a little costly but a good negotiating tool and let you know what is in store for near future repairs. I have found many of the boats up North that have developed any water leaks into foam core decking, around screws, or around hatches have developed stress cracks in the area. When this water freezes it expands and causes these cracks, which in turn allows more water to seep in and the cracks continue to expand. We recently looked at an 81 Mainship 40 near Baltimore that was a low hr. boat. It seemed to be good mechanical, but was going to need the whole upper deck re-cored and all windows and hatches remove to repair this damage. One more winter and this boat will be parted out more than likely. Check out a 36' Marine
trader that is for sale by owner on Jax Craigs list. It is located in San Mateo FL, in your price range and is a very nice boat. The owners have had her 17 yrs. I have no monetary, or commercial intrest in the boat. We looked at it and was very impressed. We ended up with the Prairie 36 for the aft cabin. Good Luck

Ok. Like I said, LEARN. A fool and his money are soon parted. Brutal, but a fact. I've seen this same thing lots of times. It almost always ends up with major dissapointments and usually financial ruin. What happens if your newly purchased 20k boat sinks in her slip. $20,000 out of your pocket, minimum. Probably WAY more. If your gonna buy a cheap boat you really need to be a boatwright, or something close to it.

I'm going to attempt to put what kulas44 is saying another way. Boats that need a lot of work are bargains only if you can do that work. Hiring it to be done and they quickly become far more costly than if you'd gotten a boat in good condition.

You say you need to find something soon and I'll point out one of the things you can't do in boating, live on a schedule. You need to find the right boat. Just like when the time comes you'll need to wait for the right weather window. And living on a schedule then will put you in real danger. But then getting a very bad boat does too.

My cousin and I were the same age and he drove the absolute biggest pieces of junk cars in college. He could fix anything that came along. If it stopped along the road he'd get it restarted. I could not have ever owned those cars. I would have never made it where I was going as I had no mechanical ability.

I drive a 1998 chevy suburban that has 310,000 miles on it. Although almost nothing mechanical on it has nearly that many miles. It has quit on me several times but never left me stranded. I have a LARGE tool box and every spare imaginable. I carry a suitcase welder and a small cutting torch. A 20 lb CO2 bottle with a regulator, mostly to air up a low tire, but also to run a few air tools. Etc. I am a little paranoid when it comes to mechanical devices.

kulas44 said:

I drive a 1998 chevy suburban that has 310,000 miles on it. Although almost nothing mechanical on it has nearly that many miles. It has quit on me several times but never left me stranded. I have a LARGE tool box and every spare imaginable. I carry a suitcase welder and a small cutting torch. A 20 lb CO2 bottle with a regulator, mostly to air up a low tire, but also to run a few air tools. Etc. I am a little paranoid when it comes to mechanical devices.

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Well if you had a Ford you wouldn't have to carry all those tools or worry. :lol:

katsailing said:

Pricing Boats from $25,000 to $40,000 and 40 is pushing it for us with limited funds.

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1994 Marine Trader 38 Double Cabin Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

If this is the MT you're considering, based upon your initial statement regarding your budget, IMHO it's not the boat for you. I say this because I can see you having to put a lot of money into repairs and refurbishing, maybe as much, or more, than you end up buying the boat for (In the YW ad it says "The boat has been in storage and needs some TLC". Note: This is salesman's lingo for, it needs a whole lotta work and money to get it into shape) and even if you do all the work yourselves me thinks this project boat will be a massive drain on your already admitted low budget with limited funds... "$25,000 to $40,000 and 40 is pushing it for us with limited funds."

I wish you the best and can only hope, for your sake, you take stock in all of the good sound advice being given to you here on TF. One last thing... Rather than ask peoples opinion about some damage to the rudder shoe I'd spend some of that limited funds on a competent surveyor and get his/her professional opinion. He'll also know what to do with the awl and plastic hammer.

My Ford F550 Powersmoke diesel has a busted piston, at 134,000 miles. DD492 has words of wisdom,,,heed !!!

Diesel Duck 492 said:

The boat has been in storage and needs some TLC"[/B][/I]. Note: This is salesman's lingo for, it needs a whole lotta work and money to get it into shape) and even if you do all the work yourselves me thinks this project boat will be a massive drain on your already admitted low budget with limited funds... ".

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Yes, those words of needing some TLC are generally scary. On a house it generally means it needs a total rehab.

Capt.Bill11 said:

A number of things. But it's very rare to see metal shavings on a dip stick unless something catastrophic happened to the engine. And even then you'd have to pull the dip stick right after the engine had stopped before the metal had a chance to drop out of suspension to see much of it I would think.

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I had opportunity to pull a dip stick with much very fine metal particles visible months after the engine had eaten itself alive. The metal flakes were finer than salt and suspended in the oil. Guess it takes some time for all of it to settle to bottom.

Pack Mule said:

Just today I installed some hawse pipes . I was using about a 15$ tube of caulk . I new it wasn't going to take all the caulk so I decided to work on my lazarette hatch framing so that I could use the whole tube of caulk . I almost took on too much work today just to keep from wasteing the rest of the caulk . My projects are usually organized to stop when I finish a tube or start something else that will finish a tube . I know that sounds crazy but I hate wasteing this expensive caulking .

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Stich 16d nail in nozzle and with nail against wall pull calk gun trigger so calk surrounds nail shank completely. Wipe nail head and exterior of nozzle clean. Take 3" piece of electric tape and center it on nail head with tape brought down firmly against nozzle sides. Repeat with tape at 90 degrees over first piece of tape. Then take electric tape and wrap around the first two pieces starting from nail head area down a couple inches on nozzle. Be sure that there is no way for air to enter at nail head area.

Store calking tube in dark cool location. Most calks last for up to a year. Have had 3M 5200 slow cure adhesive last for longer than three months for reuse.

kulas44 said:

I drive a 1998 chevy suburban that has 310,000 miles on it. Although almost nothing mechanical on it has nearly that many miles. It has quit on me several times but never left me stranded. I have a LARGE tool box and every spare imaginable. I carry a suitcase welder and a small cutting torch. A 20 lb CO2 bottle with a regulator, mostly to air up a low tire, but also to run a few air tools. Etc. I am a little paranoid when it comes to mechanical devices.

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Kulas44 so you must be a great mechanic, but you choose to drive a pretty crummy truck. Well I owned three since the late 1980s and still have one. It rattles it shakes it rusts and one needed a replacement motor paid for by GM. The only reason why we own one is my wife halls heavy horse trailers and the GMs have the heft, but not the quality definitely not a Toyota. Our 2004 HD 250 diesel has 24,000 miles and has complained all the way. Different folks different take on things just like boats.

healhustler said:

Great tip, Mule, but I'll need that caulk quickly thawed to seal the wounds I'll get when my Admiral finds it next to her truffles in the freezer.

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A better technique, I think, is to cut a finger tip off a thin poly glove (surgical glove) tape the open end of the finger around the nozzle of the tube while it's still in the gun with a bit of space in the tip of the finger, and then squeeze the gun's trigger to fill the tip of the finger with caulk. Absolutely no air can get through the glove and the ball of caulk in the finger tip and the caulk will stay good in the tube for (in our experience) up to six months, no freezer needed. Particularly if you tape over the open end of the tube with electrical tape (not blue tape or duct tape because air can get through them over time).

We learned this tip from the shipwright who regrooved and reseamed our main deck many years ago and it has saved us a fortune in caulk costs over the ensuing years.

We bought our boat 3 years ago for around 30k . It needed a lot of work and still needs a whole lot more . We budgeted 5 k a year for repairs because that's about all we can afford . We always go over at least $1000.00 or so . We do all our own work and it's a lot of it . it's something almost everyday . If it's not at the boat it's at the shop getting something ready to install or on the phone ordering materials . If you have the tools , funds , a good place to work and a damn good work ethic you can do it . Boat repair is not easy . We still have a long ways to go without any real end insight ,but we like doing this sort of thing . We always try to get big heavy stuff done before the season. We could not afford a cheap trawler if we had to pay for labor .
I've seen some buy a real piece of crap and not do anything to it . It depends on what you want out of it ,but it still has to float .

kulas44 said:

Ok. Like I said, LEARN.

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Geez.

With great respect: Your point is valid, but the lady is indeed here trying to learn, it's not obvious how much her husband already knows, and it's not obvious how much her husband's captain-friend knows.

Doesn't seem useful to assume they all just fell off the turnip truck yesterday and then rag on 'em about it. Doesn't seem useful to assume she (and they) aren't gladly taking in all the advice, learning from it, and fitting it to their situation...

And now... back to my nap time...

-Chris

contact BillyIII his plans have changes since he bought and began updating a GS 36. He is in NJ so not too far from you and an honest guy.
Trawler Forum - View Profile: Billylll


I have never seen metal shavings on dipstick but if I did I would walk away immediately.


Obvious rot you describe is just the tip of the iceberg. You can find a better boat maintained by some one who paid attention. Restoring a boat is incredibly expensive. If you do your own work less so but a lot of work just read some of psneed's posts...
I don't think you have to buy junk just keep looking. Talk to Billy and ask how he found his boat.

bayview said:

contact BillyIII his plans have changes since he bought and began updating a GS 36. He is in NJ so not too far from you and an honest guy.
Trawler Forum - View Profile: Billylll

I have never seen metal shavings on dipstick but if I did I would walk away immediately.

Obvious rot you describe is just the tip of the iceberg. You can find a better boat maintained by some one who paid attention. Restoring a boat is incredibly expensive. If you do your own work less so but a lot of work just read some of psneed's posts...
I don't think you have to buy junk just keep looking. Talk to Billy and ask how he found his boat.

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A well stated summary: if it's obvious to you, walk away. Because a major project still take all of your time, money and maybe your marriage too, as all as the cats.

Find a good broker in Florida.

Your boat is out there, but it will take time to find.

Diesel oil turns black shortly after changing so is meaningless.

JDCAVE said:

I should add, that I would be concerned with the mechanical state of a boat that has sat on the hard for 8 years. The current owner would have to get the boat in condition for a sea trial. Don't even consider that sea trial without a good mechanic on board while you do it.

Then you could always put in a real low ball offer to take the boat "as is".


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

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JDCAVE, I think I may have misquoted on the time it was on the hard. It may have been 3 years, but not more than 5.

Pack Mule said:

Just today I installed some hawse pipes . I was using about a 15$ tube of caulk . I new it wasn't going to take all the caulk so I decided to work on my lazarette hatch framing so that I could use the whole tube of caulk . I almost took on too much work today just to keep from wasteing the rest of the caulk . My projects are usually organized to stop when I finish a tube or start something else that will finish a tube . I know that sounds crazy but I hate wasteing this expensive caulking .

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Pack Mule, thats understandable I wouldn't want to waste it either. My husband usually has lots of caulk around, but that is for his work which is carpentry and renovations.

kulas44 said:

Ok. Like I said, LEARN. A fool and his money are soon parted. Brutal, but a fact. I've seen this same thing lots of times. It almost always ends up with major dissapointments and usually financial ruin. What happens if your newly purchased 20k boat sinks in her slip. $20,000 out of your pocket, minimum. Probably WAY more. If your gonna buy a cheap boat you really need to be a boatwright, or something close to it.

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kulas44, I know, I know! We and including my husbands friend are not assuming anything nor do we think we know everything about these boats. When we look at boats especially my husband, he always thinks of the worse that can happen. He doesn't assume anything, believe me! It is possible because this boat has been sitting on the hard the engine might seize when going to sea trial, right? Also the batteries and generator might be shot that is another expense!

katsailing if you are willing to pay more for the boating lifestyle then keep looking. If you think that living aboard will be less expensive than onshore living, then do more research. If you think that you might finance part of the purchase price than get pre -approved, not many lenders will finance a live aboard. Then find out if you can get insurance on a boat of that age and size without much boating experience.
Many marinas do not allow live aboards and if they do, they want proof of insurance, so find a place to keep the boat and how much it will cost.
If you do find a boat that you like and come to an agreement, find a surveyor who will look at the boat before you plan a sea trial, haulout and more if it is in the water. If it is out of the water ask the surveyor to do a quick walk through and inspection to see if it worth a full survey and the expense of a full survey.

Looks like a nice boat. 38 MT is a nice boat. I may go see it myself if it stops snowing.

Yo, Katsailing

I want the best for you and hubby and feel need to say… there are:

1. Bad old boats... don't ever bother with these, they will eat you alive

2. OK old boats... I'd recommend passing by these too, they also can hurt you

3. Good old boats... some are good enough to get into at the right price, but be very careful

4. Great Used boats... they are available but usually take time (patience) to locate at really reasonable prices. This type old boat is what you want. They make love to you while you make love to them.

I will address only #4.

Great Used Boat (GUB):

- PO very well maintained it. There are NO major bad sectors that can be located by shipwrights, marine surveyors, and marine mechanics... or "your" broker.
- Boat layout, style, size and features are what you seek to own.
- Owner is in need to sell (for one reason or another) so the price can either be as you need it from onset or can become so from dickering with what you can afford.

It is not too easy to locate the “GUB” I outline. Unusual for a GUB to quickly fall into your hands. Normally a wide net needs to be cast wherein the purchaser (you – seeking to find a GUB) has feelers out in all directions and you constantly continue to see/visit-aboard boats for sale. This process may last for months up years. Consistently shopping boat-yards and mariners’ looking at for sale posters, daily going through CL boat ads and visiting YW for listings near you, listening to “your” broker for boats he/she recommends, repeatedly calling/visiting other brokers looking at what they have, walking docks to chat with boat owners about selling theirs or of others they have heard of. These are some of the ways to have large enough net cast to come across a GUB that could become yours… before it is purchased by others.

GUBs – usually do not last but a day to a couple weeks, maybe a month on the market before some person(s) snap then up. So… you need to be ready and be first on site with knowledge of how to at least legally tie up the deal in DP, contingencies, and prelims before anyone else can buy it before you’ve had chance for full surveys.

It may not be easy to find a low priced GUB… but... via persistence it can be done. Especially in today's glutted yet lackluster mid-sized used boat market. And, a reasonably priced GUB can be 15 to 20 X less expensive that buying new!

Get a smart, marine-knowledgeable broker on your side. From what I’ve read on this thread – you REALLY need to do that while seeking to locate yourselves a Great Used Boat!

Best Luck!

Happy Boat-Shopping Daze!! - Art