Torn between N40 or N47

We are a retired couple planning to become full time liveaboards this year. We have been focusing on the N47. But since many people have written that you should buy the smallest boat you could be comfortable on - I am wondering if a preowned N40 would be a better choice for us (we have eliminated the 43 and 46)? We plan on being east coast cruisers (Maine to the Keys), with an occasional trip to the Bahamas. We would expect occasional short visits from the grandkids, not all at once.
Please let me know whether you think the N40 would be a comfortable liveaboard boat. I have a few conflicting posts on this issue and would love to have more input. I want to consider the ability to age in place on either boat - the stand up engine room on the N47 appeals to these aging boaters.
I am eager for your input. Thanks.

Why did you eliminate the N43..? As it is just that bit bigger than the 40, and almost as roomy as the 47, and has the advantage of room for a proper helm seat. Just interested. I'm sure you have reasons, so just intrigued..?

If not crossing oceans...only "N"s will do?

Many think other vessels offer more interior space for a given length.

The money is yours to spend....but picking real blue water vessels for near shore cruising seems overkill....

Thanks to both of you. After a great deal of research and finally getting on boats, a Nordhavn is the choice for us. Its probably going to be the 47 but we have seen some really nice very well equipped 40's that appealed to us as well. Budget does figure in. We never got on a 43 as the one we wanted to look at sold. One may come on the market that we could take a look at. What I am looking for here now is advice whether a couple could be comfortable living aboard a 40 full time. I need to figure out whether to rule that model out. My husband is 6' 4" and I am pretty tall too. We will bring our English bulldog onboard. I am a complete newbie as no doubt is evident. (My husband is an experienced boater)

OK, thanks for clarifying. I don't blame you falling for a Nordy, but I think the 40 would be a bit tight to live aboard, the 43 could well be a better option there, and not that much more expensive. The 47 is also nice, kinda like a stretched 43 actually. Hopefully Oliver, who has a 47, might come in soon and would know a lot more than I do about them all. If he doesn't, search him and send him a PM. I'm sure he would love to help.

Thanks Peter B. This is helpful.

Loved the N47 we toured at Trawlerfest. Our boat isn't a Nordhavn but at 38' it should be close to an N40 in available space. I just can't see being a live aboard on a boat that size. I am 6'5" and was impressed with the ER on the N47. If we were selling the farm to go to sea, the N47 or the Defever 50 would be near the top of our shopping list. To me, the main negative is the draft on these boats and the need for stabilizers if you are doing blue water cruising. There have been posts on this forum of very experienced people who have done the Loop and ICW on boats with 5'+ drafts but I do not care to try it and going from Maine to Florida offshore doesn't seem that practical to me. Anyways, here is a vote for the N47.

Thanks. I suspected the answer would be that it would be too cramped but I wanted to be sure before ruling it out. I wish it were otherwise - the costs are sure much lower, not only acquisition but slip fees etc. I expect it would be easier to dock too but don't know if this is the case. I like the lesser draft, especially for the Keys.

The N40 is way too cramped for a liveaboard IMO.

For late mode N47 money (or less) you can also get:

http://m.yachtworld.com/mobile/boats/2003/Expedition-Steel-Trawler-1815738/Puerto-Vallarta/Mexico

http://m.yachtworld.com/mobile/boats/2008/Bering-Trawler-2135910/Falmouth/ME/United-States

http://m.yachtworld.com/mobile/boats/2007/Defever-Euro-Pilothouse-2573186/Seabrook/TX/United-States

http://m.yachtworld.com/mobile/boats/2009/Defever-48-Euro-2779578/Jacksonville/FL/United-States

http://m.yachtworld.com/mobile/boats/2009/Great-Harbour-N-47-2754629/FL/United-States

http://m.yachtworld.com/mobile/boats/2006/Kadey-Krogen-48-North-Sea-2683073/Seattle/WA/United-States

http://m.yachtworld.com/mobile/boats/2005/Kadey-Krogen-North-Sea-2640332/Mystic/CT/United-
States

Nothing against the Nordy-- great boats-- but other options out there with more room to live aboard.

Edit: Wonder which "brand" would have better resale at the end of ones cruising career (assuming it had to end)? Nordhavn, Krogen, Defever, Bearing, Great Harbour? I assume any custom boat would be hardest to resell...

Thanks for your advice cardude01.

47' for the average couple needing average space....hands down! If it were for the grandkids only, the 40 would do.

Good to know. In that case, hope we can swing the 47 - we will know for sure in a few months.

cardude 01 - thanks for your list; that was nice of you to compile for me.
I can't help it: we are enamored of Nordhavn

Just remember how many boats are bought then go little used or resold quickly at a major loss because they aren't the right boat for the application.

Sorry can't help myself and am sure Cardude feels the same as many others that are biting their tongue.....if that's what you love...it may be the right choice as that is a big part too.

I started looking at Nordhavn initially because they would be the safest boat, take me anywhere, yadayadayada.

Finally realized I wasn't really going anywhere far flung soon (ever?) and started looking for the newest boat I could get for the least money that fit most of my needs. Not sure I got all that yet since I just got the boat, but I'm just trying to say keep an open mind on the big blue water boat.

Maintrawler


As far as the "buy the smallest boat you can be comfortable on" saying I, having had five ocean going power boats think that is a completely false statement.

I would, within practical reason buy the most comfortable boat that will safely take you to the places you want to go.

Mainetrawler, I know you are new at this. I know you are focusing on the Nordhavn's right now. Allot of us here were in the exact place you are right now, just a few years ago.

To get to the spot you are in life, clearly you and your husband are smart people. So, like you must do in your careers, approach this boat thing with goals. Define your goals and the right boat will become much more apparent.

So far you have defined to us your cruising range. From your posts you want to do the ICW, and the Bahamas. With that cruising range in mind almost any boat will be seaworthy enough to accomplish the mission. You might be shocked to hear this but my Bayliner is perfectly suited for that mission, as are allot of other boats.

All I'm asking you to do is to analyze your goals first. The right boat will naturally flow from those goals.

You're talking about selling out and making a liveaboard life. If you'd defined your goals as "we want to cruise the entire planet" then I'd (and may others here) would be advising you to buy the Nordhavn and set sail. The problem is you did not define that as your goal.

I will suggest to you that for cruising the ICW and the Bahamas you don't even need to sell the farm. You could almost certainly keep your land based home as a place to return occasionally to, or as an investment, and buy a lesser priced boat that will take you in safety and comfort to the places you dream of.

Then after you get into the cruising lifestyle, and see what its really like... if your cruising plans change and you want to see the world, you could then sell out and buy a passagemaker like a Nordhavn that will fulfill those dreams. Then, you'll be in a much better position to know what you want, and what you don't want in a boat.

While I may be a little biased , one of the local N40's was used as a live aboard for a couple of years. They are comfortable and capable boats. The only issue I have observed with the 40's is that launching and getting onto/off the dinghy seems a little dodgy if it's rough out.

The N47 obviously has a lot more room for living and comfort. You'd love all of the stand up space in the engine room and I find the location of master stateroom in the middle of the boat to be far more comfortable both at sea and at anchor. Far less motion at sea and no chain or wave slap noise at anchor.

Of course, YMMV,

Good Luck and feel free to contact me with questions about N47's.

Since you are both tall and desiring to live aboard and obviously have the means to afford a late model Nordhavn. Why not look into the late model DeFever?

Same salty look, generous engine rooms and more interior space(living area) than a comparably sized N. You will notice interior headroom is generous on the DeFever line of boats.

If you are sold on Nordhaven don't let me or anyone else stop you as they are fantastic boats. I'm just saying if you have a few months before things get serious you owe it to yourself to look around at other brands.

Thanks so much everyone for the very thoughtful replies. You have given us a lot to think about. Trust me, I will mull all of your thoughts over. We want to get this right.

Go wit the N47, we were initially looking at 40's and came close to buying a nice one up in Texas, but we realized after a year we'd be wanting to upgrade to the bigger 47'. We have no regrets with our choice.

Boydski said:

I find the location of master stateroom in the middle of the boat to be far more comfortable both at sea and at anchor. Far less motion at sea and no chain or wave slap noise at anchor.

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I think useful to list all the "features" I want on a boat, similar to this example, and then go looking at boats with those features. No matter about size, brand, style... at first. Our must-have features were things like a flying bridge, stairs (not a ladder) to the flying bridge, a cockpit with transom door and swim platform (for the First Mutt), etc. Surprising how quickly some of that homes us in on the few candidate boats that were available at the time.

CPseudonym said:

Since you are both tall and desiring to live aboard and obviously have the means to afford a late model Nordhavn. Why not look into the late model DeFever?

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And maybe a Fleming?


Of course I certainly wouldn't turn down a Nordhavn, assuming it has the right features

-Chris

Thanks Oliver; we sure loved the one we saw.

Ksanders is providing you some real good insight and advice. You can get a very good 47' Bayliner for under $200K. They are roomy and comfortable and will easily take you to the Bahamas and the Keys. You will need to pay closer attention to weather windows when going outside due to lack of stabilization. The draft of the Bayliner is under 4'. You could do the ICW and the Loop also. And you will have two engines for peace of mind.

In the sailboat world, there is a boat called an Island Packet which is a well known blue water sailboat. (Note - Cardude has a moterized or trawlerized version of the Island Packet sailboat). I like to think of the Island Packet as the Nordhavn of the sailboat world. A lot of first time owners hear of Island Packet, decide they have to have one and buy it only to later find out they really don't have the experience to handle the IP. They subsequently end up on the resale market where real sailors pick them up.

The Nordhavn is a wonderful boat and is in high demand. You end up paying a big time premium for the name and the perceived quality and desirability of the boat. I like them as much as you do but when I look around the market place, I know I can get a Baylinner 47' or an Endeavour 44' Trawlercat for a fraction of what the Nordhavn would cost.

My thought is to do what Ksanders has suggested. Keep the home and start out much more modestly to be certain living on the water is what you really want to do. At the end of 4-5 years, you could revisit the Nordhavn dream or you would still have your house if you find sea life isn't what you thought it would be.

I like your list ranger42c. I was actually thinking of compiling one and now I will.
Donsan I agree with you and ksanders and others. I will keep the search open. Have starting looking at the boats mentioned.

I strongly believe you should buy the BIGGEST boat you can manage, not the smallest. Boats get smaller over time, not bigger. What seems huge when you first step aboard will almost immediately seem normal, and over time you will be looking for more space. For every person who down-sizes their boat, at least 10 people up-size.

Your first encounter with a bigger boat is typically one of awe and intimidation by it's size. I think this leads to people buying too small to begin with, and quickly leads to the desire to upgrade. And I think people upgrading tend to do so in too small increments. I don't think anything less than 5' is meaningful, and 10-15' is a healthy upgrade. So unless you like shopping for and buying boats every few years, don't be intimidated by size. It will pass VERY quickly. Let cost, upkeep, and maintenance be stronger guides.

As to the specific question, I don't even think it's a questions. I think the 40 is the cutest thing and packs a lot into that size, but I would never even consider living on one, let alone trying to work on it myself. I'm 6'3" and 225lbs so still smaller than your hubby, and it was hard enough fitting into spaces on my Grand Banks '47, and still pretty challenging getting into spaces on my Nordy 60. And even in the living space, it's just nice to have some elbow room.

So I'd go 47' - no brainer.

And since I'm spending your money, have you looked much at the 55? It's obviously more $$, but many I think are a really good value. And you get some really nice features over the 47. The separate ultility room and access to the ER I think is key. That way one can do ER checks or otherwise be in and out of the ER with out disterbing someone trying to sleep in the master stateroom. For an overnight passage, that's key. The other huge plus is the extra cabin and day head in the "tree house" behind the pilot house. For overnights, it is again hugely beneficial to be able to hop into the little cabin to sleep, be isolated from the PH so you can actually sleep, yet be right at hand should you be needed by whoever is on watch. I think it is way preferable to the jump bed behind the PH settee. And you pick up a 3rd cabin at the same time. But how much you are willing to spend always draws a hard line....

Both cardude and ksaunders reply's are spot on, as a hard core Nordy lover myself I will concur there are a bunch of alternatives available IF you don't wish to turn either East or West and go 2000 miles non stop.

As CD posted there are a number of boats out there that will give better accommodations for the same or less money.. and a couple he posted can go anywhere a Nordy can. Don't be stuck on just the Nordhavn brand thinking they are the end all.. they have their issues as do ALL boats.

An no matter what anyone else may try to convince you .. 40' is just too small to be a full time, no dirt home anymore liveaboard.

As a side note, it one is only looking to full time for a couple years you need to look at the resale value of your choice. As a example the N46 I have been assisted in the purchase of recently originally sold for $295k, it has passed through a number of owners and the last sale price was $375k

HOLLYWOOD

twistedtree said:

The separate ultility room and access to the ER I think is key. That way one can do ER checks or otherwise be in and out of the ER with out disterbing someone trying to sleep in the master stateroom. For an overnight passage, that's key. The other huge plus is the extra cabin and day head in the "tree house" behind the pilot house. For overnights, it is again hugely beneficial to be able to hop into the little cabin to sleep, be isolated from the PH so you can actually sleep, yet be right at hand should you be needed by whoever is on watch.

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Overnighters probably not all that necessary for the stated mission: "We plan on being east coast cruisers (Maine to the Keys), with an occasional trip to the Bahamas."

Good points, though, and maybe that also provides some additional insight into how to develop a list of desirable features.

-Chris

ranger42c said:

Overnighters probably not all that necessary for the stated mission: "We plan on being east coast cruisers (Maine to the Keys), with an occasional trip to the Bahamas."

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Yes and no. I know a number of east coast cruisers who travel in bigger jumps. NYC or RI straight to Charleston, as an example. At one point I was looking at a couple of weeks to make that trip in day hops, then heard a friend who had just done it in 3 days straight. That's a really nice option to have. Also, with a deeper draft boat, outside routes will be more likely, so more chance of overnighters.

But you are right that it's a smaller part of the whole bungle given the cruising plans. I always do day hops when possible.

Thanks for spending my money Twistedtree. My husband is looking forward to overnight cruising; misses it from his Navy days I think. He has a lot of long trips already planned where this will be necessary! The 55 is awesome I am very sure (I won't permit us to look anything over budget) but definitely not in our budget!
After reading all the comments it is clear to me we would be too cramped on the 40.
As far as resale, we were hoping to dock the trawler in front of our someday Va Beach condo and keep it for the kids (hey they could take us out in it!), but that may not be realistic.
I was discussing the thread with my husband. He says he suspects that the advice of buying the smallest boat you would be comfortable on was not aimed at liveaboards
I have to admit the roomier boats were very appealing.

Mainetrawler said:

As far as resale, we were hoping to dock the trawler in front of our someday Va Beach condo and keep it for the kids (hey they could take us out in it!), but that may not be realistic.

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It's very realistic, just start'em young. Trust me, I know.