Emergency bilge pump

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N4712

N4712

Guru
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
3,607
Location
U.S.A
Vessel Name
Oliver
Vessel Make
Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Has anyone ever installed one of these electric Pacer Pumps the Chief read the article on Hamiltons knock down and now wants to get one installed next haul out.
 
Are you planning on installing a foot valve to keep it preprimed? If you need that seconds count, think I would something that was a flip of the switch. If it's going to be AC power, think I would rather have a sealed submersible.

Ted
 
I would use that setup.....just enough gph.

If you want to rid a boat of water...use what the salvage guys use....which is that but usually with a gas engine.

A trash pump either driven by engine, genset, or separate diesel or gas engine.

even the combined Rule Evacuator 8000 (8000gph....well sort of) is one that is used by them and it is 12V.

If I was going offshore regularly...I would mount a gas trash pump permanently with a quick connect gas line from the tank like the USCG has on their drop pumps. I would store the gas tank topsides if the pump was below decks.

If I thought I would be running a large genset all the time...that pump would fit the bill too. Just keep a gallon of water next to it if it needs primo g and keep the pump body full of antifreeze with anticorrosion on additives in it.

The antifreeze may be enough to keep it self primed.
 
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I have a giant engine-driven pump with a clutch. Just throw the lever and away it goes. I have never had it apart and short of flooding the bilge where the pickup is, I've never tested it. Now I'm worried that it might have a Jabsco-like rubber impeller, which to me sound idiotic as it would either take a set or perish in there, never having worked at all, such that I will either have to change the impeller regularly or hope for the best. Guess when I go to the boat Monday, I'll take it apart. I also have a fire pump which is probably the same technology. It shoots salt water a long way, good for getting jet-skiers!

Get a trash pump, but don't mount it in the engine room, it might be useful for pumping out a neighbour or putting out a fire. Get fire hoses too.
 
While we have a 2 inch clutched Jabsco for bilge and fire use , its main use has been to squirt at jet skiers.

On the other hand out EMERGENCY bilge pump is a 1 1/2 inch Edson hand pump on a board with 2 - 20 ft hoses .

That has been useful in a number of dock emergencies when I lived aboard.
 
The trouble with that setup, FF, is how long can you pump?
 
Oliver, I'm in favor of big pumps. That pump will move a lot of water. It is self priming as long as there is water in the pump housing. I would keep a gallon or two of water in jugs near by to prime it if you have to.

I like Teds idea of a big submersible. You don't worry about priming and if it clogs, you just pull it up and clear it.

I also like the idea of a portable pump. I keep a gasoline driven pump at my store in case one of the boats on my dock takes on water.

The problem is, I bet it won't start without cleaning the carb. It just sits too long. I'm sure the gasoline is stale as well.

If I had the sense God gave an ant, I'd convert it to propane. Propane powered engines can sit for years and then start right up. You can also store propane forever without it going bad.

In an emergency I believe in using every pump available. To that end I've rigged my engine's raw water pump so I can draw from the bilge. Someone will jump in and say "You'll ruin your engine. It will get blocked by bilge debris." I'll risk it. The water goes through my regular sea strainer and I can clean that pretty quick. The engine would be ruined anyway if the boat sinks.

I'm not a fan of manual pumps. Even a little Rule will move more water in the long run. It takes a lot of energy to keep a manual pump working. While you're working the pump, you're not stopping the leak.

Who's going to say the best bilge pump is a scared man with a bucket? Not me.
 
"In an emergency I believe in using every pump available. To that end I've rigged my engine's raw water pump so I can draw from the bilge."

That is what I was going to suggest. I was told of this method years ago but never quite got around to doing it. My Detroits have a 3" intake, can't help but feel that would outpace any bilge pump. Also HopCar I'm with you on possible damage. If it sinks then what's the point of worrying about the engine.
 
Consider a sewage pump, a heavy duty trash pump (super bilge pump) that just needs the inlet to be covered with water to pump. Made to pump chunks so clogging is not usually a problem. We used these all over the power plant to pump out river silt. Drop it in with a rope, plug it in, and go do other stuff.
 
I like the idea of an electric high capacity bilge pump

It needs to be completely submersible though. It won't do any good if the thing shorts out if the motor gets wet. It won't do any good in an emergency of you have to do anything other than flip a a switch.

It also has to be non corrosive because it won't do any good if it won't work when you need it.

something like this

3YU74_AS01


$500 at grainger.com. All stainless construction. 45 GPM at 5' head. 120 volt 6.5 amps
 
HopCar said:
Oliver, I'm in favor of big pumps. That pump will move a lot of water. It is self priming as long as there is water in the pump housing. I would keep a gallon or two of water in jugs near by to prime it if you have to.

The problem is, I bet it won't start without cleaning the carb. It just sits too long. I'm sure the gasoline is stale as well.

If I had the sense God gave an ant, I'd convert it to propane. Propane powered engines can sit for years and then start right up. You can also store propane forever without it going bad.


Who's going to say the best bilge pump is a scared man with a bucket? Not me.
Click to expand...

Hopcar,

You can do what I do... just go to the local small airport and buy a few gallons of 100ll avgas, it is what I keep in the stand by genset at the ranch. No ethanol and higher octane so it seems to keep for much longer. Once a year I dump the stuff in the John Deere mower and it really runs great. Of course it is over 2X the cost per gallon but who cares when it's a few gallons.

HOLLYWOOD
 
The pacer pump, even with 20' of head, will move over 16,000 GPH. There is just no comparison to a Rule or other pump like that. The Rule's 8000 GPH is very optimistic with little to no head.
 
Hollywood, I'll try that. The problem is I really like the smell of av gas. I'll probably start sniffing it.
 
Thanks all for the ideas, going to contact ABT and see if my current hydro pump for the stabilizers can also run a pacer pump. That'd be best, but if I have to upgrade the pump on the engine I'm not going to do it. Like Peter said said I don't think any rule can match this pump. I mean come on guys, it'd have to be over 280GPM. I don't like the fully submersible units for the fact that they're so big and bulky to put down in the bilge not to mention the salt getting to it, and they pump nowhere near the capacity.
 
Greetings,
Mr. 4712. Check out the link in post#8 (Mr. 11). To me, that looked REALLY interesting. No electricity 12V/110V/220V/550V...needed. Evidently up to 900gpm. 1 moving part from what I could tell.
 
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RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. 4712. Check out the link in post#8 (Mr. 11). To me, that looked REALLY interesting. No electricity 12V/110V/220V/550V...needed. 1 moving part from what I could tell.
Click to expand...


Yes, but I don't really want to get into making a custom support (FG work), and I just don't really like the idea.
 
With the Fastflow pump you'd be roaring around in circles while the Coast Guard was trying to catch you to pump you out! Something out of Keystone Cops!
 
Xsbank said:
With the Fastflow pump you'd be roaring around in circles while the Coast Guard was trying to catch you to pump you out! Something out of Keystone Cops!
Click to expand...
Actually...the USCG would prefer you underway for boarding with their own gear or hoisting it down by helo. Much safer than dead in the water.

But I do see what you are saying that you probably have to stop or slow sometime.

It shouldn't be your only pump...but one of its predecessors yeas ago also touted it as a blower while waiting for your boat to flood.
 
In a salt water environment pumps which are not used tend to freeze up. Found this out after only five years. Have switched to a 110v fully submersible sump pump which I use a couple of times a year to bail out the dinghy. Of course if we were holed I would much rather have the Pacer pump.
 
Xsbank said:
With the Fastflow pump you'd be roaring around in circles while the Coast Guard was trying to catch you to pump you out! Something out of Keystone Cops!
Click to expand...

At least you'd be roaring towards help or shore while pumping water out automatically at a very high rate with no worries of the pump clogging. While you are still trying assemble and get your other emergency pump to start and/or prime.

But to each his own I guess.
 
Guess my next question would be how likely is the need for this kind of volume. My boat came with 2 rule 2000s. Replaced them and added 2 additional rule 3700s. Now I know that boats sink for a variety of reasons, some related to their pumps. I have heard of dead batteries, faulty wiring, float switch problems, dead pumps, no pumps, clogged pumps and pumps turned off. But at the speeds most of us travel, how likely is inadequate volume a problem? My point is if you have well more than average amount of pumps and capacity in good working condition, is the risk factor up there with getting sunk by a breaching whale?

Ted
 
Just take a look at the volume a 1 1/2 inch hole will pass 3 ft under water to get an idea of requirements.

A battery powered pump or pumps will fail in time , only engine driven can move real volumes.

The big boys do not lift the water , they simply push it out thru a seacock of huge size.

Test your DC electric pump on deck with a temp hose to see just hoe long it takes to fill a 5 gallon pail. Stand by to be Frightened!
 
How fast can you sink? Well: "For example, if there is a 4-in hole in a vessel 2-ft below the water line, it will flood in at a rate of approximately 15,960-gal/hr and sink the vessel in a matter of minutes."

And Rule pumps don't flow at anywhere near their rated volume in real world conditions.
 
Ok, I got all that. And what are the odds you going to but that kind of hole through a boat at 7 to 9 knots? Now if you've got a 30 year old boat with original seacocks, hoses and clamps on your raw water systems, maybe the risk of a significant hole is substantially higher. Any statistics for the risk factor of getting a hole punched through the hull in a fiberglass boat at 7 to 9 knots?

Ted
 
No hole required , just a old 1 1/2 hose fails , and you dont notice till the salon sole starts to float.
 
Emergency bilge punp

Forgot to mention we do have a big manual Edson bilge pump.
 
What is your risk of a major flooding event.

Lets look at what could cause that.

1. You could hit something. At 7 knots what is the realistic chance of putting a big hole in your boat? I do not know but I don't think this is a high risk. I assume you carry plugs, and other emergency repair stuff onboard and since you'd know you hit something you could attend to the problem quickly.

2. you could have a seacock, hose or other failure of an onboard system. Personally I think this is your bigger risk. Things like washdown and head lines, engine hoses etc... can fail.

Addressing this kind of failure is really dependant on your knowing about it. Do you have a high bilge water alarm? If not, you should. Something on a separate float switch a couple inches higher than your normal bilge pump.

If you don't find out about high bilge water you can easily and quickly get to a point where the water is too deep to figure out what happened and fix it. If you know you're taking on water you can generally solve the problem.

If you know your boat is being flooded I assume you have seacocks that actually work? I also assume you have a set of plugs, and or one of those foam emergency plugs you can use?

So...

My method is warning. I have two high bilge water alarms. One forward and one aft of my engine rooms watertight bulkhead. These alarms go to a loud buzzer. They also go to my boats alarm system and I get a text within seconds if I'm not on the boat. I test these alarms frequently.

To mitigate a flooding event i have a set of wooden plugs, and one of those foam emergency plugs under the settee where I can get to them quickly.

I do not have yet but am going to add this season a stainless steel sump pump like the one I posted a photo of above. This pump or one like it will move 45 gallons per minute at a 5 foot lift. It has an AC motor that I'll wire to a dedicated circuit. Then, in an emergency all someone has to do is turn on the switch. If I'm not on the boat I can make one call to the harbor and within a couple of minutes someone can be on my boat and my pump can be running. No that pump at 45 gallons per minute is not the end all do all. Its job is to buy me time. Time to solve the problem. If I cant solve the problem time to calmly deploy my liferaft and call for help.
 
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Emergency bilge punp

ksanders said:
What is your risk of a major flooding event.

Lets look at what could cause that.

1. You could hit something. At 7 knots what is the realistic chance of putting a big hole in your boat? I do not know but I don't think this is a high risk. I assume you carry plugs, and other emergency repair stuff onboard and since you'd know you hit something you could attend to the problem quickly.

2. you could have a seacock, hose or other failure of an onboard system. Personally I think this is your bigger risk. Things like washdown and head lines, engine hoses etc... can fail.

Addressing this kind of failure is really dependant on your knowing about it. Do you have a high bilge water alarm? If not, you should. Something on a separate float switch a couple inches higher than your normal bilge pump.

If you don't find out about high bilge water you can easily and quickly get to a point where the water is too deep to figure out what happened and fix it. If you know you're taking on water you can generally solve the problem.

If you know your boat is being flooded I assume you have seacocks that actually work? I also assume you have a set of plugs, and or one of those foam emergency plugs you can use?

So...

My method is warning. I have two high bilge water alarms. One forward and one aft of my engine rooms watertight bulkhead. These alarms go to a loud buzzer. They also go to my boats alarm system and I get a text within seconds if I'm not on the boat. I test these alarms frequently.

To mitigate a flooding event i have a set of wooden plugs, and one of those foam emergency plugs under the settee where I can get to them quickly.

I do not have yet but am going to add this season a stainless steel sump pump like the one I posted a photo of above. This pump or one like it will move 45 gallons per minute at a 5 foot lift. It has an AC motor that I'll wire to a dedicated circuit. Then, in an emergency all someone has to do is turn on the switch. If I'm not on the boat I can make one call to the harbor and within a couple of minutes someone can be on my boat and my pump can be running. No that pump at 45 gallons per minute is not the end all do all. Its job is to buy me time. Time to solve the problem. If I cant solve the problem time to calmly deploy my liferaft and call for help.
Click to expand...


Kevin, like you said I'm more worried about some water line failing or sea oct failing. I'm not so worried about hitting something.

We do have high water bilge alarms. We too also have the wooden plugs incase of an emergency where a seacock failed.

But also another way for water to enter the ER is example of James Hamilton's knockdown, the water did not enter from below the water line, but through the ER vents. He had massive amounts of water come in, 2" above the oil pan. That's a lot of H20! So that's another possibility.
 
99 percent of the time you have either too much capacity....or not enough.

Most damage control is about stemming the flow below your pumping capacity...no matter what it is.

Without material/tools to help stop major flooding or the knowledge on how to do it....that gets a little worrisome.

Early detection is vital...so is understanding free surface effect and progressive flooding.
 
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