New Boat! - Hopefully

Hi all!,

We just wanted to introduce ourselves! We are new to the powerboat world (previously owned a Catalina Sailboat). We have been looking for a trawler for some time and feel that we may have found the right boat. She needs new decks (surprise!) and a little TLC, but we figure she will be worth it in the end.

We joined this forum so we can hopefully get some help with a few questions we have about the boat we are looking at, before we take the plunge, so to say!

J & K
Pacific NW

This may help you inspect it yourself before you hire the surveyor ....... Marine Survey 101

Welcome from across the "pond". What is the new boat you are looking at?

We have a PT38 Sedan(Europa) and love it!

Thanks boatpoker! We read Marine Survey 101 and found it interesting ( and maybe a little scary!)
We are fortunate to have in hand a survey and mech insp. that was completed not long ago. The boat needs work... decks mainly - unfortunately she has been neglected for a couple years.

We are both handy people, so we think we can handle most of the issues......there is one on the survey that we are a little concerned about and perhaps you have some insight into what is needed to fix/repair as, at this point we have found little literature on it.

The survey indicates "two of the transverse supporting beams beneath the aft deck have separated".... not sure how big a job this is to fix???

Thanks in advance for any help!

If it's a CHB 34, you will also find the side walls and maybe even the windows will be rotten too. If there is a mildew smell inside, or any discoloured panelling inside, if you can see mold when you lay on the berth and look up under the side-decks, you have a typical CHB issue that will cost you dozens and dozens of boat dollars. You will not be able to use your new boat for at least a year. The mold and mildew are serious health hazards. If the boat has an ozone generator on board, run away! Make darn sure you get some other opinions or you will regret your lovely (they are lovely) first trawler. Strip off the deck, strip off the fiberglas, take out the rotten core, rebuild the core, put new Fiberglas on the deck (thick, because there is no teak any more) and a nice finish coat of something. Same for the side walls, the flying bridge, the top of the rear cabin...

Sorry to be such a poop. I have seen at least 10 CHBs when I was trawler-shopping and they all had rot that started in the decks. The builders filled the deck spaces and sidewalks with old packing crates and any other junk they could find and many of the holes for screws were not filled, just bunged, as the underpaid workers swiped the bronze screws and sold them in the market.

I am in Vancouver and if you would like me to take a look I am willing to check it out for you. I've had a pretty good lol at them.

Hi Mike,

Nice to find someone relatively close! We are looking at a 34' CHB

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. Is this a survey YOU had done or one provided by the owner? In by the owner, get one yourself. A good surveyor should be able to give you a fairly good idea of just how far the "neglect has gone. Previous posts are on the money regarding a potential bottomless money pit.

Wow, glad we signed up for this forum! Thank you all for the input and wisdom! Gives us a few more things to look at for sure!

The survey (three months old) is from someone that was going to buy the boat and ran away because the decks needed to be done! We feel we can tackle this job, so are willing to look into this a little further.

Thanks XsBank for the offer!! We might just take you up on it.

J&K, Don't let some of these guys scare you too much. Most of them have to have their work on the boat done for them. If you're the same way , then ,yes, you can spend thousands on a deck job. It's a lot of work. I did my 44' MT in two weeks-full time, and I'm a professional marine carpenter/ fiberglass man. It will take some specialized tools to do it in a reasonable time and it needs to be under cover. If you don't have a place to work on it, and the time, find a boat thats been done already, or discount the heck out of the asking price on this one. Good luck Ben

Hi again all,

Maybe a little more info on us... we have full access to a machine shop and a wood shop. We are not afraid of getting dirty or hard work. We like to work on projects. We can have the boat at our home to work on, and if this all goes ok, we plan to have it here for a year to make sure she is good to go back in the water.

That being said, we are new to boat maintenance and generally working on boats. The issues on the Survey... decks, leak in the v-berth, water under the ss water tank, water leak in the system (source not determined) replacement of macerator pump imminent .. and a few others. We THINK all are doable and not too far out of our scope of ability.... If anyone has thoughts on how hard these are to complete, please chime in. Again... we will be doing the work ourselves, cost will be only materials.

tego said:

J&K, Don't let some of these guys scare you too much. Most of them have to have their work on the boat done for them. If you're the same way , then ,yes, you can spend thousands on a deck job. It's a lot of work. I did my 44' MT in two weeks-full time, and I'm a professional marine carpenter/ fiberglass man. It will take some specialized tools to do it in a reasonable time and it needs to be under cover. If you don't have a place to work on it, and the time, find a boat thats been done already, or discount the heck out of the asking price on this one. Good luck Ben

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Tego

Your two weeks as a "professional marine carpenter/ fiberglass man" would be four weeks full time because I have a different career specialty.

Or put another way, if I worked EVERY WEEKEND for a season and that's all I did I might get the job done.

Or if I took my entire vacation for the year, I might get the job done.

We need to remember that even if we have the skills for a big project, we may not have the time.

Like said earlier, get it VERY discounted. It will also have iron fuel tanks, does it have 2 Lehmans? The engines are probably one good thing. The interior joinery is wonderful but you will have to rip lots of it out. Sorry to be such a poop but wouldn't you rather go boating?

34 Europa, I wonder if you can describe in more detail exactly what the state of the decks is..? Why I ask is the damp deck core tends to be something folk tend to make a huge issue of, but in reality the core is just in there as a stiffener, right..? It is not structural, and it does not have to be watertight, or even completely dry for that matter. Yes, the way they used to lay down teak decks before the era of epoxy gluing them down, the screws always damaged the integrity of the top sandwich of fibreglass, (GRP), but as long as the under layer is not leaking, damp core is to some extent just a fact of life and of curiosity value. After all, as I said, the core is sandwiched between an under layer and a top layer of GRP. Apart from acting as a stiffener it has no other function.

It is possible to do an acceptable repair by removing the old teak, sealing all the screw holes with a suitable sealant, then laying a new stiffening layer over that, (? preferably a synthetic these days, and not ply, but new ply would do), and then covering it all with GRP cloth mat and resin, and creating a new non-skin GRP deck finish, like many of the new models are finished anyway.

By what authority do I say this..? Simply having owned a CHB 34 (1975 era) for some 13 yrs, where the previous owner had repaired it that way, money being an issue for him, and I have to say it was fine. The decks are slightly, (I prefer the term springy, rather than soft), and they have never leaked, look fine, and would appear set to last another 30 odd years. To do a major strip-out of the top layer of GRP after lifting the old teak, then stripping out the old core, replacing that, then new GRP deck layer would have cost thousands more, taken way longer, and resulted in a slightly stiffer, but cosmetically and functionally identical result. And as most will also confirm I think, although you might 'bask in the knowledge' it was done, that extra high cost will not likely be reflected as added value in a subsequent sale.

Just a thought to put things in perspective.

Peter - When you step on the deck, they are beyond squishy! With the amount of rain we get here (Pacific Northwest) we feel it is likely a better option to remove the core, install new synthetic core and put down fiberglass decks. We believe the core is VERY wet and feel that the water coming into the V-berth is from this. I am by no means a boat expert... just taking lots of info from various sources on the net.

XSbank - the fuel tanks have been replaced and are aluminum...other than the V-berth the inside is pristine. Windows are all good, as are the frames. Engine is a Perkins (single screw) 2200 hrs. Mechanical insp was good, oil samples were good.
We want to boat too, but don't want to break the bank to do it

Price is under 25,000 usd - asking price

Thanks all for your input!

We are taking another look tomorrow! Will keep you posted.

Kevin - You are right regarding the time, but luckily we have that on our side too!

tego said:

J&K, Don't let some of these guys scare you too much. Most of them have to have their work on the boat done for them. If you're the same way , then ,yes, you can spend thousands on a deck job. It's a lot of work. I did my 44' MT in two weeks-full time, and I'm a professional marine carpenter/ fiberglass man. It will take some specialized tools to do it in a reasonable time and it needs to be under cover. If you don't have a place to work on it, and the time, find a boat thats been done already, or discount the heck out of the asking price on this one. Good luck Ben

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Thanks Ben,

We know it is a big job and expecting it to take us a couple months. Thanks for the benchmark and advice. We are planning to have a shelter to work in and have many of the tools already. Honestly, we are more worried about what we will find, other than the decks!

34 Europa said:

Peter - When you step on the deck, they are beyond squishy! With the amount of rain we get here (Pacific Northwest) we feel it is likely a better option to remove the core, install new synthetic core and put down fiberglass decks. We believe the core is VERY wet and feel that the water coming into the V-berth is from this. I am by no means a boat expert... just taking lots of info from various sources on the net.

Click to expand...

Ok, well, that's different. Obviously the under-deck layer is also compromised and that makes my suggestion less applicable. It will be a mammoth job, but the other plus, if the rest of the boat checks out, is the virtual giveaway price.

Good luck with all that.

34, I wish you the best of luck with your project. I'm sorry I'm such a downer about your new toy. I encourage you to take lots of photos and put them on here so we can be awed and entertained by your work. All the best...

34 Europa said:

Thanks boatpoker! We read Marine Survey 101 and found it interesting ( and maybe a little scary!)
We are fortunate to have in hand a survey and mech insp. that was completed not long ago. The boat needs work... decks mainly - unfortunately she has been neglected for a couple years.

We are both handy people, so we think we can handle most of the issues......there is one on the survey that we are a little concerned about and perhaps you have some insight into what is needed to fix/repair as, at this point we have found little literature on it.

The survey indicates "two of the transverse supporting beams beneath the aft deck have separated".... not sure how big a job this is to fix???

Thanks in advance for any help!

Click to expand...

"Transverse beams" suggest athwartship deck support frames. "Separated" suggests they are not fastened to the deck or have pulled away leaving a gap. Unfortunately the terminology is a little flexible, it could also mean that the FRP skin has separated from the plywood core, thats a much bigger job than dealing with supporting beams. If it's serious you should be able to feel it when you walk on it but get underneath and have a look.

I've owned a MT34 aft cabin for 22 years. There is nothing you can't fix with a bucket of epoxy and a few pieces of wood. Sure it can be a mess but that's what the off-season is for...

I have never owned a boat such as the one you are considering. However I've done almost all the work on my boat so I know a little about boat maintenance. If you truly have the time and inclination to spend the next year or so fixing up this prospective boat then you may have a good deal. But so many times buyers either don't realize the extent of the job or get tired of spending all their free time and money fixing a boat that in the end will still be an old boat that will yield a very poor investment potential.

Another option is to figure out what this boat will really cost to fix up and perhaps find a boat in better condition for that amount of money. Your time is worth something and using the boat is a whole lot more fun than constantly working on it. This may be a boat that you are constantly working on and probably why you're getting such a good deal.

J & K,


I have an older 34', and I tend to agree with Al. If you really like the boat and have the ability and inclination to work together to make it "yours", then by all means have at it, but don't pay too much as most folks will Run Away.


I also have some old soggy decks, but for the most part they are firm enough and I keep her under cover in a dryer area.


New tanks, good engine and mechanicals, and a Pristine interior is worth $25K - but don't pay that much!


I have been working on this boat for 4 years now and have enjoyed the work and upgrading. She runs well and really enjoy her.
I have not really touched the decks other than fill a few cracks and seams; 90% of the upgrade work has been inside, other than new canvas and exterior teak finishing.
Enjoy the trip and don't focus too much on the time it takes to the destination.


Take your time to find out just how bad they want to sell the boat. It is off-season, getting soggier, with few buyers.


The saying "a bird in the hand" was never better applied than in boat transactions.


Best of luck!

Welcome 34 Europa- The 34 CHB is a very popular boat and for reason however there are the downsides that XsBank relates. Perhaps this very current ad on Craigslist in Seattle might entice you given the close proximity you are to it. It would appear much of the issues have been addressed and the price reflects a modest market amount. Yes, the fly bridge has been eliminated but so have the potential leaks.

1979 34 ft chb tri cabin trawler

Al (the other Al Johnson)-Ketchikan (Bridge to Nowhere) Alaska

Sorry- Vancouver Washington, not Seattle
Al

34 - Although I reviewed first page in thread fairly well... and briefed the second... I did not notice any mention of stringers.

Not knowing the boat model well I do not know if stringers have wood core and if that wood core was meant for structural purposes or just as a filler-form for a thick, structurally integrated hand laid FRP stringer into hull's FRP webs. But... if stringers are wood core, and if that wood is meant for structural purposes... and if that wood is wet/rotten - RUN BUDDY - RUN!!

Hi All!

Thanks everyone for all the input, it gave us lots to talk about!

We weighed all the pros and cons and did a rough estimate of what we figured repairs would be - and doubled that and figured we would still go ahead

We took another look at her yesterday, and made an offer today.....time will tell now!

Will keep you posted!

J & K

A lot of good advice, it is your boat and your project. I chose newer in order to enjoy now, but you may enjoy the project. It is your choice good luck, keep us posted.

Well, we did it!! After much deliberation, research, calculations, and a few other complications...we made an offer (we think a good deal too!)!! It was accepted and we will do a sea trial in the next week! We are excited (and a little nervous) but more so...excited! Will post pics as soon as she is ours.

Thank you all for your input, and we hope that we can turn to you in the future when we have issues or questions!

J & K

34 Europa said:

Well, we did it!! After much deliberation, research, calculations, and a few other complications...we made an offer (we think a good deal too!)!! It was accepted and we will do a sea trial in the next week! We are excited (and a little nervous) but more so...excited! Will post pics as soon as she is ours.

Thank you all for your input, and we hope that we can turn to you in the future when we have issues or questions!

J & K

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Of Course!

34 Europa said:

Well, we did it!! After much deliberation, research, calculations, and a few other complications...we made an offer (we think a good deal too!)!! It was accepted and we will do a sea trial in the next week! We are excited (and a little nervous) but more so...excited! Will post pics as soon as she is ours.

Thank you all for your input, and we hope that we can turn to you in the future when we have issues or questions!

J & K

Click to expand...

Great and please keep us informed!!!!!!!!