length

Many boat charges are based upon length (e.g. haul out, bottom painting, dockage, etc.). Is this typically the LWL or the LOA (including swim platform and pulpit) or the nominal length based upon the manufacturer's model

Docking is LOA usually.

For bottom paint I would only include the length of what needs to be painted. If someone wanted to charge me for bottom paint based on length including my bow pulpit I think I'd have an issue with it.

No Mast said:

Docking is LOA usually.

For bottom paint I would only include the length of what needs to be painted. If someone wanted to charge me for bottom paint based on length including my bow pulpit I think I'd have an issue with it.

Click to expand...

Yet the Mo _ _ _ _ _ _ s try don't they?!!!! I've had many a fight with boatyards over this issue. Why the hell you trying to charge for overhangs that you're not painting? Particularly bothered me was when I took in my 15' tender to paint and they would charge me for 15' but the boat is only 4' wide. If the normal boats they paint ARE 15' wide- then why aren't they charging me for 4' instead of 15'? The amount of actual paint used was tiny, but they charged for huge. For sailboats where there's a pretty small footprint forward with narrow beams- it was rather galling to be charged the same as powerboats which were wide their whole length.
You know what I learned? That some boatyard managers (mostly in Ft. Lauderdale and that Greek yard in St. Augustine!!!) just don't respect you unless you put up a fight complete with yelling and screaming- THEN they like you and give you a good deal. They remind me of my Italian ex-wife!!!
Do we always have to fight first, is that what turns you on? Apparently so.

That's why I paint the bottom of my boat myself.
I don't have to pay anyone and I know how many coats of paint go on.

I'd have to go and find my invoice - but if I recall correctly, the last time I had my sailboat bottom painted my invoice was itemized - including things like haulout, gallons of paint used, rags, disposal, labor, etc. I don't believe it was a fixed cost by length.

Richard

One of the nice things about the work boat yard I use, bottom paintings price is paint, plus roller cover, a pan liner, roll of masking tape, maybe a brush, and actual labor time.

Ted

The real con comes with beach ball fat boats.

Sorry sir your 40 ft boat is to fat so will require a 50 ft slip to fit.

And you pay for the 50 ft!

LOA, according to the USCG and other reputable sources (Chapman's, Dictionary of Nautical Knowledge, etc.) is the length measured from the forward most part of the stem to the aftermost part of the transom, NOT including swim platforms, bow pulpits, or anything else protruding from the hull. The single exception is when the swim platform is part of the molded hull structure, in which case it is included. LOA is among quite a few nautical terms which, colloquially, are often used incorrectly. This official definition will be lost on our dull friends who operate boat yards and marinas, so you may well consider not even butting your head against that brick wall.

The better places usually specify in writing what the intent is...but there is no standardization from docking to painting....always best to ask and negotiate if necessary.

However, many places will stiff you as respect you if you question their pricing. Try to find out what works best for each place before you walk in.....

Captain K said:

LOA, according to the USCG and other reputable sources (Chapman's, Dictionary of Nautical Knowledge, etc.) is the length measured from the forward most part of the stem to the aftermost part of the transom, NOT including swim platforms, bow pulpits, or anything else protruding from the hull. The single exception is when the swim platform is part of the molded hull structure, in which case it is included. LOA is among quite a few nautical terms which, colloquially, are often used incorrectly. This official definition will be lost on our dull friends who operate boat yards and marinas, so you may well consider not even butting your head against that brick wall.

Click to expand...

Well, first you misquoted as forward most part of the stern to the aftermost part of the transom would be 0" as the transom is the surface that forms the stern. Stern is the aft most part of the boat.

Now, second, the Chapman definition of what is included and excluded no longer holds in all situations. The USCG and other organizations have formed their own rules of what counts and doesn't in LOA. And marinas very clearly spell it out for their purposes. And all that makes sense. If you're talking about the actual structure of the boat then excluding platforms and pulpits and other extensions makes sense. If there is an integral platform that is part of the structure then it's different. But when you're looking at the dock space required, then everything must be counted. You have boats out there with 5' swim platforms. As a result just for clarity, most builders now show both numbers. LOA without and LOA with. Some refer to LOA with as maximum length. But marinas are very specific in defining it for their purposes and to argue would be foolhearty because you'd be wrong.

Of course then we complicate it more with waterline length tossed in and model numbers. It is important to know each measurement. As an example of where it can be an issue, a 54' Grand Banks has an LOA without extensions of 54'4" but a maximum length of 61'5". A few canals behind me have maximum lengths of 55' for the slips. A man recently bought a GB 54' only to find out he couldn't keep it at his house. And, yes, when you have narrow canals an extra 7' sticking out makes a huge difference.

I had no problem getting the yard to agree to measure the bottom and charge for that.

BandB said:

Well, first you misquoted as forward most part of the stern to the aftermost part of the transom would be 0" as the transom is the surface that forms the stern. Stern is the aft most part of the boat.

Click to expand...

If you read Captain K's post again you will see it was you that misread his post. He used the word "stem" not "stern" to describe the forward most part of the boat.

Greetings,
Mr. CP is correct Mr. BB. Have another coffee...

CPseudonym said:

If you read Captain K's post again you will see it was you that misread his post. He used the word "stem" not "stern" to describe the forward most part of the boat.

Click to expand...

You are correct and my apologies to him. Sure looked like stern with the font I'm using. Even now, only notice the difference side by side. Maybe I'm older than I thought...losing my vision....

A boat has many lengths:
Builders length: 46
Calling ahead for a slip: 44
Telling your friends: 50
Washing it yourself: 60
Waxing it yourself: WTF!!

Captain K said:

LOA, according to the USCG and other reputable sources (Chapman's, Dictionary of Nautical Knowledge, etc.) is the length measured from the forward most part of the stem to the aftermost part of the transom, NOT including swim platforms, bow pulpits, or anything else protruding from the hull. The single exception is when the swim platform is part of the molded hull structure, in which case it is included.

Click to expand...

Well, yes, but...

Our boat is nominally 42' (model name) and the manufacturer's stated LOA is 44' 6" "length overall w/o swim platform"). The bow pulpit is sorta-kinda part of the hull, not an additional bolt-on, so probably all well and good up to that point even though it differs somewhat from the above.

But our CG document says 46.2' -- nearly equating to the manufacturer's spec of 46' 1" WITH swim platform, which is not molded in an integral part of the hull structure.

Doesn't make much difference to me one way or the other, just demonstrating that "official " definitions and reality sometimes vary, anyway.

-Chris

hmason said:

A boat has many lengths:
Builders length: 46
Calling ahead for a slip: 44
Telling your friends: 50
Washing it yourself: 60
Waxing it yourself: WTF!!

Click to expand...

hmason said:

A boat has many lengths:
Builders length: 46
Calling ahead for a slip: 44
Telling your friends: 50
Washing it yourself: 60
Waxing it yourself: WTF!!

Click to expand...

From time to time we contemplate a larger boat. Then we spend a day or two washing, waxing, polishing and detailing and are convinced it is more than adequate for our mission.

B&B, if it is any consolation I read it properly the first time but after your post had to read it 3 more times. Had to be absolutely sure my bifocals where not deceiving me before stepping out on that limb

hmason said:

A boat has many lengths:
Builders length: 46
Calling ahead for a slip: 44
Telling your friends: 50
Washing it yourself: 60
Waxing it yourself: WTF!!

Click to expand...

I have to laugh as boat tales sometimes go like fish tales. What was paid for it. Every aspect. I knew a dealer on the lake well and one day I was there, he'd just encountered the strangest situation. Customer comes in and says I want to buy a boat just like the one Jason bought. Same deal, everything. So, dealer excited as he'd about to make the easiest sale of his life. He immediately writes up a sales contract identical to Jason's. The customer is outraged when he sees $34,000. Yells that Jason only paid $30,000 and he can't believe the dealer would try to take advantage of him like that. Finally with his integrity on the line, he gets a copy of Jason's contract and shows it to the customer. Now the customer is irate but at Jason, calling him every name he can think of. He calms down a bit and apologizes to the dealer. They says, can you give me $1 off so I can tell that $%##$ I got a better deal than he did. I won't tell him the amount. The dealer says, "Ok. Now you know he'll come to complain so when he does I'll refund him a dollar."

CPseudonym said:

From time to time we contemplate a larger boat. Then we spend a day or two washing, waxing, polishing and detailing and are convinced it is more than adequate for our mission.

B&B, if it is any consolation I read it properly the first time but after your post had to read it 3 more times. Had to be absolutely sure my bifocals where not deceiving me before stepping out on that limb

Click to expand...

I read it three times too because I knew something was wrong. But it's like proofreading your own work. Once I read it as "STERN" it was fixed in my brain as such.

Too small when lots of guests
Too big when paying slip fees
Too small when conditions turn rough
Too big when maneuvering in tight areas
Too small when preparing a fancy meal
Too big when cooking for two

That's the thing. All are compromises. People come searching for the "perfect" boat and you just have to tell them to start over as there is no such thing.

But, I have to ask those living on land. Do any of you have a "perfect" home? We love ours and consider it perfect for us. But there are days it's too big and days it's too small.

My boat is 38' LOA not counting the swim platform or pulpit. It's 42' counting the swim platform and pulpit. It's called a 37 (Sabre makes a 38' and wouldn't let Back Cove call theirs a 38' also) and has a nice little 37 emblem on the side. This comes in handy when renting a slip for the night. I tell my pals that have SeaRays that if my boat was a SeaRay, it would be called a 42'.

Traditionally LOD was boat length. Bolt on stuff was not included. Then FG boat makers got smart and included pulpits and platforms into the mold. Now it was all one piece and what was a 39' boat became 45'. Everybody was happy. The maker sold a bigger boat, the buyer got bragging rights. Later the buyer would meet up with a friend on a classically measured 42' boat and wonder WTF why is my boat so much smaller??

bayview said:

Traditionally LOD was boat length. Bolt on stuff was not included. Then FG boat makers got smart and included pulpits and platforms into the mold. Now it was all one piece and what was a 39' boat became 45'. Everybody was happy. The maker sold a bigger boat, the buyer got bragging rights. Later the buyer would meet up with a friend on a classically measured 42' boat and wonder WTF why is my boat so much smaller??

Click to expand...

Years ago I had a 1996 Maxum express. First model year of the boat
They called it a SCR 3900. The next year they came out with a new model
SCR 4100. By now you know where this is going. Yep the exact same boat with a very nice price increase.

Before I sold the boat it became a 4100.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Trawler

Wifey B: I've heard...of course innocent lil' me wouldn't know.....but men, excluding my hubby, tend to exaggerate length.

You see some very interesting labeling. For instance, Fleming added a 58' between the 55 and 65. So you'd logically think it's a little closer to the 55 than the 65. But it's Hull LOA is 62'9" and total LOA is 65'9". Why they chose to label it a 58, I have no earthly idea. But the first comment of reviewers has been it felt much larger. Well, duh, it is.

We not only have the perfect boat... we also have perfect times aboard! Our slip is perfect too!!

We enjoy haven the perfect life.

Happy Perfect Daze! - Art

Captain K said:

LOA, according to the USCG and other reputable sources (Chapman's, Dictionary of Nautical Knowledge, etc.) is the length measured from the forward most part of the stem to the aftermost part of the transom, NOT including swim platforms, bow pulpits, or anything else protruding from the hull. The single exception is when the swim platform is part of the molded hull structure, in which case it is included. LOA is among quite a few nautical terms which, colloquially, are often used incorrectly. This official definition will be lost on our dull friends who operate boat yards and marinas, so you may well consider not even butting your head against that brick wall.

Click to expand...

The Coast Guard is concerned about interior volume while marinas are concerned with the size needed to fit berth/dock. There is a reason marinas are "dull."


My boat's builder variously describes the boat's length as 35, 35'8", and 36 feet. The hull is 35'8" long but the overall length including folded swim step and bow pulpit is about 38 feet.

Art said:

We not only have the perfect boat... we also have perfect times aboard! Our slip is perfect too!!

We enjoy haven the perfect life.

Happy Perfect Daze! - Art

Click to expand...

We feel we do as well. Or way too close to perfect for us to ever complain. Now that perspective sure helps. It helps me personally in so many ways. I don't find myself disturbed by the imperfect aspects of life. So, the drive through messed up my order...again. That only destroys my perfect life if I let it do so. My wife reads my mind and knows what I'm thinking, but I resist saying those thoughts and I get a kiss and compliment for it.

BandB said:

We feel we do as well. Or way too close to perfect for us to ever complain. Now that perspective sure helps. It helps me personally in so many ways. I don't find myself disturbed by the imperfect aspects of life. So, the drive through messed up my order...again. That only destroys my perfect life if I let it do so. My wife reads my mind and knows what I'm thinking, but I resist saying those thoughts and I get a kiss and compliment for it.

Click to expand...

On much of the AICW , you can stick whatever you like on the side of the boat , and they will still come with a tape measure.

From anchor tip to a dink in a davit , LOA is just that ,LENGTH OVERALL!