1973 all over again?

markpierce said:

Meanwhile, we can enjoy the sound and exhaust of our diesel engines.

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Yep and Amen.....

Here's another thought...

What if the price drop is being orchestrated to starve rebel groups and rogue states from funding their ambitions by selling oil on the black market? If I was Saudi Arabia, I'd be getting n-n-n-nervous by the goings on in my neighbourhood.

I think the political and economic aims go far beyond Putin and Russia. This plus the glut of oil on the market and the (at least for now) lower demand in Europe and the US are driving the price down. North America is not the primary buyer for Middle East oil and it's my understanding that this was the case even before fracking became the flavor of the day.

I don't think the Saudis give a hoot in hell about our fracking activities, frankly. I think a more important concern to them is stability in the region. One way to help achieve this is to influence the economies in the region and a major tool for doing that is oil.

Mark,
Raise you one ... underway w 20hp.

Thanks Marin,
We so often don't see the worldly picture. We've got our foot in so many worldly pies it's hard to tell where we are and what it all means. I agree w your post above.

manyboats said:

Mark,
Raise you one ... underway w 20hp.

Thanks Marin,
We so often don't see the worldly picture. We've got our foot in so many worldly pies it's hard to tell where we are and what it all means. I agree w your post above.

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Eric-- Your wake reminds me of the wake of the narrowboats we run on the English canals: not much more than a slight disturbance on the water behind the boat.

Working for Boeing has provided me and the crew I am part of with a unique opportunity to be exposed to viewpoints of people (and governments) all over the world. And the nature of the people we are working with as well as the nature of our industry allow us to learn a lot about what makes these different countries tick.

The greatest value, I think, has been to see that the world does not revolve around the US, that other countries have as much to offer the planet as we do. We've also come to see that aspects of other cultures that we tend to make fun of---"The Japanese are all like this and always do such-and-such"--- have good reasons behind them in the context of that culture.

We find it fascinating and very thought-provoking to hear the viewpoint of a Taiwanese business executive on the current oil situation or the CEO of an airline in Europe about the challenges Muslim immigration is causing his and his neighboring countries.

Doesn't mean their viewpoints and predictions are automatically correct, but they give one a different perspective and more information to use in drawing up one's own ideas and beliefs.

An Update storing 40 Million barrels at sea

Traders Book Oil Tankers to Store 40 Million Barrels at Sea - gCaptain Maritime & Offshore News

That'll run the traffic in São Paulo, Brazil for a day.

At our hardwood mill we make 40 tons of hardwood fuel pellets with the off fall from making hardwood flooring everyday . For the last year at least we have not been able to keep up with our demand . We are a small mill compared to most . We use 400 hp and two men to produce 40 tons in 8 hrs . It's slowed down some lately with the lower propane prices .

There is no conspiracy here. The invisible hand of the market sets prices. There is now more supply than demand. 40 million gallons is two days usage in the U.S. When the world economy picks up, not just the U.S., demand will rise and so will prices. Enjoy the price break while you can.

Pack Mule said:

At our hardwood mill we make 40 tons of hardwood fuel pellets with the off fall from making hardwood flooring everyday . For the last year at least we have not been able to keep up with our demand . We are a small mill compared to most . We use 400 hp and two men to produce 40 tons in 8 hrs . It's slowed down some lately with the lower propane prices .

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That's a lot of energy to make pellets, and a lot of wages!

News discussions: Fuel source, price – etc… post Saudi leader’s death…

It's downhill for US after Saudi king dies: Kilduff.

Apophyge said:

There is no conspiracy here. The invisible hand of the market sets prices. There is now more supply than demand. 40 million gallons is two days usage in the U.S. When the world economy picks up, not just the U.S., demand will rise and so will prices. Enjoy the price break while you can.

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Exactly!

We all know that oil prices have been artificially high for decades due to OPEC limiting production.

If you think about it, its the fact that OPEC has limited production that actually made shale oil profitable in the first place.

Thats really gotta have OPEC members thinking. They caused the shale oil boom through their actions. Now, we have developed the technology, and this is the big thing, we will continue to improve it, allowing more production at lower costs.

So OPEC is in a quandry. Do they remove production quotas, and let the price settle out naturally? Or do they limit production, keeping prices higher than they naturally would be, knowing full well that US producers will be innovative and find a way to make shale oil profitable?

OPEC members are in an unenviable position, one that will in the end benefit everyone due to lower energy prices, no matter how it shakes out.

ksanders said:

Exactly!

We all know that oil prices have been artificially high for decades due to OPEC limiting production.

If you think about it, its the fact that OPEC has limited production that actually made shale oil profitable in the first place.

Thats really gotta have OPEC members thinking. They caused the shale oil boom through their actions. Now, we have developed the technology, and this is the big thing, we will continue to improve it, allowing more production at lower costs.

So OPEC is in a quandry. Do they remove production quotas, and let the price settle out naturally? Or do they limit production, keeping prices higher than they naturally would be, knowing full well that US producers will be innovative and find a way to make shale oil profitable?

OPEC members are in an unenviable position, one that will in the end benefit everyone due to lower energy prices, no matter how it shakes out.

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If they had listened to economists 20 years ago when they were told artificially high oil prices will lead to increased competition and alternative energy sources, they would not be in this predicament.

IMO - Saudi Arabia is/will-continue to try and break the backs of shale and fracked oil by making those two oil production techniques un profitable. To various extents this endeavor will cause ripples in some economic conditions that will not be too good for those invested.


It will likely take a year or more before SA can actually get enough of the shale and fracking companies to stop producing for prices to again rise a substantial extent.


Basically, because of SA's and other producing nation's greedy price rises for last decade plus they shot themselves in the foot. Because... soon as prices rise high enough again the shale and fracking portions of the global oil industry will re ignite.


In other words... there will now always be oil-price leveling factors available... this will limit the price oil can raise to for foreseeable future.


Thank you Saudi Arabia!!!

Donsan said:

If they had listened to economists 20 years ago when they were told artificially high oil prices will lead to increased competition and alternative energy sources, they would not be in this predicament.

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Agreed!

Innovation is driven by profit potential.

If OPEC had never controlled production, prices would have been lower. Our innovations in for example automotive fuel economy are a direct result of higher energy costs.

But then again, from OPEC members prospective, they have gained additional profit, for a period of decades, from higher oil prices. I hope they invested those profits wisely... Because their days of both political and economic power are numbered.

Rustybarge said:

That's a lot of energy to make pellets, and a lot of wages!

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You're right . We are looking at robot to replace one guy . But we have decided that nobody wants to work alone all day . We have more capacity with the 400 hp mill but we need to speed up flooring mill for more waste . Flooring sales are a little slow . It's a catch 22 . You can't let the sawdust back up either .

Pack Mule said:

You're right . We are looking at robot to replace one guy . But we have decided that nobody wants to work alone all day . We have more capacity with the 400 hp mill but we need to speed up flooring mill for more waste . Flooring sales are a little slow . It's a catch 22 . You can't let the sawdust back up either .

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Just guessing a 400hp diesel at 10 gals/hr econ cruise to pellet 5 tons, plus 2 wages at $20/hr ???

Ain't exactly ecologically sound!

400 hp electric

Oil prices go up, people whine and complain. Oil prices go down, now the world is coming to an end!

Art said:

News discussions: Fuel source, price – etc… post Saudi leader’s death…

It's downhill for US after Saudi king dies: Kilduff.

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conspiracy buffs see post #47, has it started???

Forbes just named TN. Governor Haslem the richest politician in the country!! He owns Pilot Truck stops. Lower oil prices have increased profits at the pump even with lower prices. go figure!! His estimated wealth has go from 9 Million to over 2 BILLION

I am glad prices are down. I now have more $$ in my pocket to spend at the boat show....

Just think of the extra cash you and the nation would have if the left did not nix

DRILL HERE,,, DRILL NOW!

For the past 3 decades !!

FF said:

Just think of the extra cash you and the nation would have if the left did not nix

DRILL HERE,,, DRILL NOW!

For the past 3 decades !!

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Exactly, instead of enriching those who hate us we could have been creating American jobs and helping our own economy.

Don’t forget about smart plans to conserve “personal” calories burned in a very long term turtle and hare race… actually, centuries long race(s)... that is.

Slow never ending progress/proceedures that reduces “personal” calories burned does not only win in distance traveled or race(s) finished for the winner in the long run; but also for calories to continue running after passing the first, second or third “finish” lines with health always remaining to win each “next” race – while still standing TALL.

For many, many decades the U.S. has sucked up Middle East’s reserve oil to keep us moving along in the procedural race of national and international development, with only some of our own energy reserves being used and new sources of energy being developed - by us.

For last several decades white shawled leader-type folks in the Eastern Nations have had a good financial run while several increments in this long-term race have happened… don’t forget it is our companies that began sucking oil out of the ground in mid-east and not until a period of time had passed did mid-east nations rationalize enough (late 50’s early 60’s) to cooperatively nationalize their own oil consortium (can we spell OPEC). Then, and not until then, did they become mighty in the doings of international energy allowances, prices, and production (e.g. 1973 oil embargo). See: Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries(OPEC / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC

Soooo… as U.S. kept pace at its tempered turtle speed of slowly using its own energy reserves, and heavily utilizing OPEC’s reserves, the fun race of national and international development continued at various rates of speed in various global races for last half of 20th Century and beginning of 21st Century.

By that time, as happenstance had it, low and behold the U.S. was forced (God bless those that want down due to WTC debacle) to enter into wars inside some and in proximity to all the “oil rich” Middle East Nations. Now Just Imagine how/why That All Occurred!

Meantime, for many years, OPEC was thrashing us (and other nations) with increased [unstable] oil prices, which made it even more advantageous for U.S. and others to develop efficient ways to exploit our (their) own oil reserves while engineering more efficient processes of burning oil in many hundreds of millions (billions) hydrocarbon engines and other power producing units/processes/procedures. We also invented and are still rapidly inventing completely new-source energies that circumvent many previous needs for crude oil.

Now, as “our U.S. turtle” heads toward another finish line in Q1/Q2 of 21st Century OPEC is forced to lower oil prices for fear that U.S. and other nations with reserves will suddenly take over international oil production and leave OPEC nations with mostly sand to fill their bank accounts. Therefore, in attempt to shore up their one (drilled crude oil volume) truly valuable commodity’s position as a world leader energy-material OPEC is forced to drop prices low enough to at least temporally horse-corral (in effect slow down) the currently developing new-source oil productions by U.S. and other nations. That said - those techniques of ours are still readily available, and, OPEC knows that. Be careful with your prices from now on OPEC... we can step on you anytime we want by increasing production depending on your price levels. Be aware, although you can currently cut crude-oil prices below what is profitable for us to match - our methods in production technology are improving... so you will probably need to stay real low in price, maybe even progressively lower - or we will step on you!

This all is occurring while we, the crude-oil energy production turtle, still drain OPEC’s oil reserves at prices that now can enable better economic times for U.S. and other nations. Pretty much no matter how the next several decades play out regarding crude-oil production and use… eventually OPEC will be left holding sand, not oil, and rest of world (especially our USA) will continue to reach the finish line making ready to enter and win the next race(s).

Caveat I feel need to place here: Crude Oil, i.e. hydrocarbon burning uses (therefore oil production and sales), will experience an untold rate of internationally mandated reductions in not too distant future (during next couple decades) due to needs apparent for cleaning up Earth’s atmosphere and oceans. The effect of “this race” will create surges in new, clean energy developments as well as for many new ways to “profitably” provide ecosphere betterment and climate stabilization. In the long run of civilization’s race(s) toward centuries from now future conditions… OPEC will become a foot note regarding human creations of required energy sources. Our U.S., “our very own intelligent/unstoppable turtle”, will also lead in these race(s) for salvaging and then ongoing improving Earth’s overall environmental conditions. I know, a very quiet turtle-like Corp of mine has for over a decade been proceeding forward in a consortium of organizations regarding several improvement methods and products that are being planned to provide global implications with international utility scale cash flows.

If you are going to bet on any country – bet on our own – The USA!

Happy Life Daze! - Art

We didn't frack 3 decades ago because fracking wasn't invented, not because of any democratic conspiracy. All this fracking oil came on the market in a DEMOCRATIC administration. You can have your own opinion but you can't invent your own facts.

They were fracking in the 50's. First tried as an experiment in 1947. Since advent of horizontal drilling, it certainly helps increase production in a well.

http://www.powerincooperation.com/EN/Pages/drilling-and-completion.html#sthash.lnvP51to.dpbs

Rebel112r said:

They were fracking in the 50's. First tried as an experiment in 1947. Since advent of horizontal drilling, it certainly helps increase production in a well.

Drilling & Completion - There's Power in Cooperation

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Rebel, thanks for link.

I thoroughly read the link and closely reviewed its diagram. Also watched ConocoPhillips video on right-hand window. Very sanitary. Your thoughts?

No matter whatever we may think and whatever may be happening regarding hoz-drilling/fracking... it seems that, ever increasing use of those and other hydrocarbon-fuel retrieval methods, which glutted the fuel markets in general, has forced OPEC to drop prices!

Interesting... to say the least!

Hope our govt's several levels do not begin to each pile-on their own taxes now that liquid and gas hydrocarbon fuel prices have substantially dropped... but, we all know how govt is. CA is already musing such.

Big problem would be if the base price of crude oil regained too-tall price levels after taxes have been instated. Cause... it's not too often any govt division rescinds or even reduces an operating tax on anything. Think what a gallon of gas could cost then! OUCH...

I have just been hoping for the US to combined increased US oil production, development and implantation of energy efficient homes, new autos, trucks and boats with an end result that we no longer imported oil from outside the US.

Pura Vida said:

I have just been hoping for the US to combined increased US oil production, development and implantation of energy efficient homes, new autos, trucks and boats with an end result that we no longer imported oil from outside the US.

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Then we (Canada) can mothball the tar sands, right?