Counteracting prop walk

SeaHorse II wrote:

"I've never been in a situation where I
considered adding a stern thruster. I've really never needed one!"


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And until you guys are in that situation, you won't appreciate the difference.* Our slip would be near impossible to get into (and out of)*without a stern thruster.* But having said that, we wouldn't know how awesome they are either, if our boat didn't happen to have one when we bought it.

Point being...don't criticize what you don't know.

*Yes, Skinny Dippin' really does have a First Mate.*

I've thought about it a lot and realized there are things a stern thruster will do better and things a bow thruster will do better and the obvious road to maximum maneuvering ability is to have both AND an articulated rudder AND twin engines*** .....
I would prefer the stern thruster for anchoring in winds but a bow thruster probably would work too. AND the skill at the helm is also a tool and obviously the most important tool there is and also the the tool w the widest range of usefulness. The helmsman is the only tool that can overcome almost any maneuvering challenge. So the greatest amount of increase in maneuverability will be achieved by increasing the helmsman's skills. And as long as some amount of good judgement is exercised**** ...the cheapest too. I practice what I preach but not to the degree that I should. I got a new slip yesterday and practiced backing in 8 or 9 times. Someone said recently that the boat always does the same thing when the helmsman does the same thing obviously with the exception of wind and current but relative to that I feel that with enough practice I should be able to back in as well as otherwise and all I'll need to do is adjust my drill enough to compensate for the variables. But I've got plenty of ideas about how to adjust my drill.

"Point being...don't criticize what you don't know."
Bess,
Welcome to Trawler Forum but I don't see how anyone criticized you. Please put some pictures up on the photo album along w some comments and history if you like.

We certainly wouldn't have installed a stern thruster on our boat. But it came with one, which we initially pooh poohed. Having used it for two seasons, we now like it. We can go sideways or spin the boat using both thrusters. Almost like having twin engines again (which I miss).

nomadwilly wrote:

...I feel that with enough practice I should be able to back in as well as otherwise and all I'll need to do is adjust my drill enough to compensate for the variables.

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I heard this line in a radio commercial the other day, and while the principle is nothing new I'd not heard it expressed quite this way before.* "An expert is not someone who can do four thousand things, but a person who does one thing four thousand times."


David wrote "Having used it [stern thruster] for two seasons, we now like it."

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If our boat had a bow thruster we'd use it (as we did on the single we chartered).* If it had a stern thruster, I'd use it.* If for no other reason than I'm lazy and will always choose pushing a button over making an effort.* But with a twin engine boat, I don't believe I would pay money to install either one of these things since we have so far managed to deal with every maneuvering situation we've encountered.* For example, we have perfected the technique of powering the stern of the boat out from a dock against a wind using a big fender and a line looped around the bullrail at the bow.* Pushing a button would be a lot easier, but the line and the fender are a lot cheaper.



-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 6th of November 2010 12:05:26 PM

@ Eric ,* I didn't mean to say anyone criticized "me" at all, nope, not one bit.* Just the criticism of a stern thruster being useless.* It's anything but.* (and thanks for the welcome!!)

I'd really like to have a bow and a stern thruster so we could show off!*

Oh yes showing off is fun**** ...unless or untill you stub your toe.
I'm a bit of a pureist and don't like that big hole in the bow.
I've heard it's no extra drag but I don't believe it.
Welcom again and please do the photo album.

I've owned Lotus 8 yrs now, and in the last 6 of those I can't remember a time I would have used a thruster at either end, but I am totally familiar with where and how I need to dock at my berth, and I have no need to go into strange berths. However, I can well imagine the time having thrusters would be reassuring is when traveling strange waters, and more importantly, frequenting strange marinas, when you are unable to anticipate exactly what is ahead when advised by the marina admin staff via VHF to "please make your way to berth 'X' on the courtesy dock", and you have no idea what you're going to find when you get there. That's a time when they would really come in handy I would think.

-- Edited by Peter B on Saturday 6th of November 2010 10:41:26 PM

Oh indeed Peter man,
You go up the inside passage to Alaska and every time you don't anchor out you'll come into a small harbor crowded w fish boats, sport fish boats and a few yachts*** ...of all sizes. Since it's late in the day you can't say "I'm outa here". You make do w whatever they give you. You've got to find the spot ther'e talking about after you figure out exactly what they said over the radio and the guy didn't key the mike until after he started talking*** ...seemingly in a foreign language. And you don't want to sound like a geek on the radio for all to hear so you don't ask for a repeat. But the reward is great. Bumping around in a small SE Alaska town is usually much more fun than a walk on a deserted beach. And you'll get both anyway. One thing is for sure*** ...you'll leave Alaska w more boat handling skills than you arrived with.

nomadwilly wrote:

Welcom again and please do the photo album.

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It really seems like you are stalking my wife. There are already photos of our boat posted. Let it go.

Thanks-

Well*** ....if there's any evidence of THAT please submit it. That should make an interesting discussion but if I was to stalk your wife I'd need to see her and I have not so
...I rest my case as they say.
I love to look at the boat pics and am still promoting the album (thanks for your pics by the way) and there are still many boats out there to be presented not to mention wives to be stalked.

* All of the above is correct, practice, practice. It took most of my first summer to master backing my MT 40 sedan into my slip, That's her in the middle, no choice actually as the only way on and off was the dock at the stern no side docks. I had about 200 feet of clear runway, so I would stop the boat get it cockeyed just right then give er hell *in reverse then throttle back and steer with the rudder. If she drifted off course I'd through the rudder in the correct direction and give er a shot of forward to achieve proper alinement *and in she would go. That trick did not work every time due to winds and currents. I'd have to warp er in with lines. Guess what, she's on the hard and a new bow thruster is at the ready for installation. Happy trawlering.

Well, with a 58 ft boat I do not enter the marina unless I am sure I know the exact slip and figured out the attack with the proper bumper/lines set.* I have no problem asking for repeat/direction and even begging for dock assistance.* I have learned the hard way entering and going down the wrong water way or docking in the wrong slip gets little more attention than some radio communication which few are probable listening to.* There has been many many times its become a dock/marina even getting the
Eagle docked.* The first Trawler Fest we when to we showed them how NOT to dock, but we made it will a few heart stopping moments.* OK a whole bunch of heart stopping moments. The few marinas we did frequent some learn that docking assistance was given without even being asked.* Oh gaud! Here comes the Eagle!*


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Everybody on out dock and most of the marina staff/security know how much I hate docking.* So all I have to do is announce we are entering the marina and there is usually more dock assistance then required.* Heck there have been so many, we had dock parties after!* **So I dont understand then big deal about asking/repeating and asking for docking assistance.* If there is ever a marina that offers Valet Docking, you can bet I will be there.

However, when I see someone aspproching to dock I always give assistance.* Some times is just standing there just in case.* Since we don't leave the dock much most of our neighbors will call me.* *

@ Eric,* I'm thinking most wives aren't as involved in the trawlering as I am.* So, I'm thinking I'm one of the few lucky enough to get stalked.*

@ AW, That's Joyner Marina right there....We'll see you in three weeks if plans and weather are with us.

@ Phil...Tim at Joyner offers Valet docking...* * We didn't use it while we were there, but thought it an*interesting service!* And we also always lend a hand to anyone coming in or leaving their slips.* Being the closest to the fuel dock, I have sometimes had fuel customers tied up before the dockmasters arrived.* *

awpptdt wrote:

All of the above is correct, practice, practice.

It took most of my first summer to master backing my MT 40 sedan into my slip, That's her in the middle, no choice actually as the only way on and off was the dock at the stern no side docks.

I had about 200 feet of clear runway, so I would stop the boat get it cockeyed just right then give er hell

in reverse then throttle back and steer with the rudder. If she drifted off course I'd through the rudder in the correct direction and give er a shot of forward to achieve proper alinement

and in she would go. That trick did not work every time due to winds and currents. I'd have to warp er in with lines. Guess what, she's on the hard and a new bow thruster is at the ready for installation.

Happy trawlering.

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Hi there new guy!... Just a few things to be aware of... THAT is the marina we are headed to in three weeks where Skiiny Dippin' will reside full-time. So we will see you there! Tell Tim, Molly, and courtney we said HI. Second... Tim DOES offer vallet service if you want it, but that is so, so very WRONG. Third, Bess and I will ALWAYS be there to help you with your lines if we are there. Bess is famous for it at Northwest Creek. Finally, aren't there nearly full length finger piers there? I am 99% sure there are. Looking forward to meeting you at Joyner Marina!

nomadwilly wrote:

That should make an interesting discussion but if I was to stalk your wife I'd need to see her and I have not so
...I rest my case as they say.

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Now you have seen her... The defense rests! (Don't worry... We aren't upset with you. Afterall, this is supposed to be FUN!)

**EDIT** Clothing delete option has a operational expiration date.



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-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Sunday 7th of November 2010 07:49:47 PM

-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Sunday 7th of November 2010 07:51:26 PM

-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Monday 8th of November 2010 06:33:59 PM

The best thing about the valet service is it is free! The only catch is you cannot get mad at me for showing you how to dock your boat ** Phil, you figure out how to move it to the east coast and I will be happy to provide the service.

"awpptdt" welcome aboard and HOW OLD IS THAT PICTURE?!!!! That has got to be*AT LEAST *5-6 years old before the old Oceana docks where ripped out and it became Joyner Marina. We now have full length floating docks in every slip....where is your boat on the hard at? Where are you going after you splash it? I had to do a double take when I saw that picture. I recognized the background, the day marker (which has now been moved in front of the fuel dock) and the rock jetties, but I did not recognize the boats, because none of them have been there in at least 5 or more years I am guessing....long before we took it over....stop by and see us sometime.

Tom and Bess, I promise I won't post that picture on the news board, at least until the first cook-out

My only contribution to the rest of the thread is that I believe in knowing how to run your boat without thrusters for WHEN they fail, but I took the time and $$ to install a bow thruster on mine and I am not afraid to use it.....

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Consider the following... A single with a bow thruster is like having a rudder on both ends of the boat.

That being said, I do practice w/out using thruster and found, with no wind, if I put the helm to port and idle reverse, the drag on the rudder (port) will counter the walk to starboard and I can back straight. No wind only.

It took me 7 years before I figured how to walk our boat to the dock with wind abeam and blowing us off the dock. Helm to port - forward idle and stern moves to the right. Reverse idle - back up and thruster moves to the right. Repeat as necessary. More wind takes a little more power and more time. I have had people dockside watch and wonder what is going on but eventually we get there.

She's way too young for me Tom.

I see the deleted clothes and assume she it without them

I keep stareing at the black spot but no matter how hard I stare

I just can't see through it

She should tighen her chin strap

A gust of wind and she'd be necked

AS it was built as a launch , lots of close work, Out Navy Utility has an item I never saw before.

A "backing rudder" which is a bronze cone (like a megaphone) mounted on its own shaft that helps in backing control. It is mounted in front of the normal rudder and turns as it does.

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FF you have mentioned the backing rudder several time, but I still can not get a mental picture of it.* Especially if in front of the rudder and not in back of the rudder? **It would seem the come would get in the way of the prop water flow if in front?* Maybe try it again.*


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I have thought about adding a short piece to the rudder piston arm so the rudder would be turn further, and/or making the rudder a fish tail which would make turning shorter and more direct to the side, but I dont see where it would help backing straight up.*


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The best method I have found to move the boat directly side ways is call for dock assistance, throw bow and on the stern line and let them pull you in. Works for me! (-;* We have grappling hoods to catch the bull rail, but my wife gets tired running back and forth between the bow and stern pulling us in.* (-;* We do have long poles 12 ft that could also be used.* *Hey, what ever works!*******

I have an older carbon unit like shown in the picture, so I been trying to take is easy*on her as*I can not afford another.newer carbon unit!* (0;

Phil Fill wrote:


I have an older carbon unit like shown in the picture, so I been trying to take is easy*on her as*I can not afford another.newer carbon unit!* (0;

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Do I look older when freezing?*

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Gee, I did not mean to imply you are old!* Not at all.* You look great freezing!* Ok, I will shut up now!* (0;