Guess they don't make diesel fuel like they used to! Only kidding... but that is one heck of a time span for fuel to sit.
SHELL ROTELLA vs DELO 400
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Guess they don't make diesel fuel like they used to! Only kidding... but that is one heck of a time span for fuel to sit.
Nomad Willy
Guru
FF wrote;
"The less time cranking dry , the less time spent below normal operating temperature"
No such thing as dry IMO. All our engines would by TU in no time if they were cranking dry. I don't think metal touches metal.
I let my 73 buick sit for about two months and yesterday when I started it after reading this thread I cranked it for 10 seconds twice before starting. Only noises I heard were lifters. Quite a bit of lifter noise so all that cranking didn't fill the lifters but nobody here has hydraulic lifters .. that I know of.
When I was a truck driver I'd start the big Cummins up and hold my foot just a touch on the throttle to raise the rpm about 200 where the engine ran much smoother. One of the senior guys there told me to "just take my foot off the throttle and let her chug" sounded awful to me and I was reluctant to do so. But I think he had a point and still do however I still won't let an engine run rough and cold. I do think minimizing the rpm initially is good and may be even important. So I adhere to several minutes of slow idle at startup (900-100rpm for my boat). It will run smooth at 600 though (when cold)and perhaps I should do that. I wait at least 10 min befor going to normal cruise rpm.
"The less time cranking dry , the less time spent below normal operating temperature"
No such thing as dry IMO. All our engines would by TU in no time if they were cranking dry. I don't think metal touches metal.
I let my 73 buick sit for about two months and yesterday when I started it after reading this thread I cranked it for 10 seconds twice before starting. Only noises I heard were lifters. Quite a bit of lifter noise so all that cranking didn't fill the lifters but nobody here has hydraulic lifters .. that I know of.
When I was a truck driver I'd start the big Cummins up and hold my foot just a touch on the throttle to raise the rpm about 200 where the engine ran much smoother. One of the senior guys there told me to "just take my foot off the throttle and let her chug" sounded awful to me and I was reluctant to do so. But I think he had a point and still do however I still won't let an engine run rough and cold. I do think minimizing the rpm initially is good and may be even important. So I adhere to several minutes of slow idle at startup (900-100rpm for my boat). It will run smooth at 600 though (when cold)and perhaps I should do that. I wait at least 10 min befor going to normal cruise rpm.
Driftless
Veteran Member
Cat diesels
Sunchaser:
Those are D-399 Cats, sixteen cylinder, turbocharged, aftercooled built in the mid '80s. Those are the "six and a quarter bore" engines, which we deal with a lot. Most of the ones we work on run on natural gas, but the two I referred to are diesel.
That same facility has a D3512 Cat which is the model that superseded the 6.25" bore, and it has over a hundred grand on it.
...but a trifle on the big side for an Albin-25. Driftless has a 3-cylinder Isuzu/Yanmar engine, 30 horsepower on a good day.
Cheers!
JS
Sunchaser:
Those are D-399 Cats, sixteen cylinder, turbocharged, aftercooled built in the mid '80s. Those are the "six and a quarter bore" engines, which we deal with a lot. Most of the ones we work on run on natural gas, but the two I referred to are diesel.
That same facility has a D3512 Cat which is the model that superseded the 6.25" bore, and it has over a hundred grand on it.
...but a trifle on the big side for an Albin-25. Driftless has a 3-cylinder Isuzu/Yanmar engine, 30 horsepower on a good day.
Cheers!
JS
Me, Me!! in 4 engines, not long ago 6...
Capthead
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Art, you should have heard everybody talking about that. I went up to him and asked if he was going to polish it and he shrugged his shoulders and said there's no water, why?
The dock gurus went crazy!!! It was discussed you can say with utmost certainty!!!
Art, you should have heard everybody talking about that. I went up to him and asked if he was going to polish it and he shrugged his shoulders and said there's no water, why?
The dock gurus went crazy!!! It was discussed you can say with utmost certainty!!!
Ya know... in relative similarity... I emptied about 12 gallons gas out of plastic tank from 1991 ski boat that had been sitting for eight + years; no water present in it. Looked and smelled OK to me. I poured a couple gals into my Chevy 4WD 1T truck that has high performance carbureted 350 with 4 spd trany; one of its tanks nearly empty. Ran good. Then I poured the other 10 gals into same tank... no problem. That pretty much surprised me that eight yr old gasoline would still be perfectly OK!
On another note: When I got our Tolly with twin 350's and two 100 gal tanks... the gasoline filters were filthy; fuel had dark brown color and bad smell, particles inside, and much water. I have no way of knowing how long that fuel sat nor from where it had been pumped. Although I do know that the 91 year old original owner had not been out in it for years. I immediately began adding Soltron by the heavy dose into each tank. In matter of a few filter changes (minimal hour intervals) the gas had become clear and dirt particles as well as water stopped accumulating. I still use Soltron in its minimal recommended amount. Never had dirty looking/smelling gas, particles or water again. Soltron expense is minimal… and, good feeling that gas is protected/clean – Priceless! LOL
So… this all makes me wonder about stories regarding fuels getting into bad condition by just aging??? Seems to me that “bad” fuels are assisted by their containment conditions as well as items that may simply get pumped in at refills Always good to have personal experiences and to try an separate wheat from chaff by listening to others’ experiences.
Happy Fuel-Condition Daze! - Art
SCOTTEDAVIS
Guru
Oil was checked daily at shift change and if needed was topped off, I don't recall ever adding any unless trucked was worked hard the prior shift.
We did not maintain them but were the folks that wrote up dings for maintenance to fix. I recall the motors being mostly bulletproof, hydro/water systems not so much.
Today's small car engines are wound tight and light, EPA and cost savings along with light weight has made them toss away engines.
Many have weak low friction valve systems and only 2 rings per high revving pistons and barely able cooling systems, not the stuff of long life.
If not for the improvements in oil these engines would be dead at 50-75 thousand miles. Would love to see one run on 1950's motor oil.
The above reasons along with morons not understanding how and why to maintain them and not wanting to spend the money on a car that they are going to trade in 3 years anyway is why so many are burning oil and trashed so young in their pitiful life.
We live in a disposable era, heck we replace cell phones every year or two, the TV may last 4 years and no thought is given to repair any more.
Sorry , putting this away now.....
Last edited:
FF
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So… this all makes me wonder about stories regarding fuels getting into bad condition by just aging?
Years ago you purchased gas and got gas.
It evaporated and died as it aged it turned brown.
That took years and a good filtering solved most problems.
Todays fuel is POLITICAL, poisoned with 10%+ alcohol that sucks water out of the air wrecking the fuel in much shorter times.
The claim, decades ago was ethanol was good for reducing air pollution , but that claim is long gone , today its simply a price support for farmers , where early primaries are.
The best way to keep fuel clean is by not purchasing it till you need to use it.
Empty tanks are now the storage concept , as the alcohol in the fill up will capture the condensed water and burn it with the first long run.
Modern cars can handle the liquid garbage by sensing knocking and changing the ignition timing and fuel flow to keep operating.
IF gas ever looses the alcohol , gas engines will make a big comeback in cruisers .
Years ago you purchased gas and got gas.
It evaporated and died as it aged it turned brown.
That took years and a good filtering solved most problems.
Todays fuel is POLITICAL, poisoned with 10%+ alcohol that sucks water out of the air wrecking the fuel in much shorter times.
The claim, decades ago was ethanol was good for reducing air pollution , but that claim is long gone , today its simply a price support for farmers , where early primaries are.
The best way to keep fuel clean is by not purchasing it till you need to use it.
Empty tanks are now the storage concept , as the alcohol in the fill up will capture the condensed water and burn it with the first long run.
Modern cars can handle the liquid garbage by sensing knocking and changing the ignition timing and fuel flow to keep operating.
IF gas ever looses the alcohol , gas engines will make a big comeback in cruisers .
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Yes and no. Not an automatic one. Most of the boats I have had suggested no more than 30 seconds of cranking without starting. If you must crank more than that, there is a drain on the waterlift muffler. You should drain it...and it is a manual job.
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Or that....
Yo, Baker - What happened? Where are all the pretty fems you usually have showen in your posts???
As I wake early to have a day of ridding life hard, and spend some time sucken coffee as get-go. I anticipate a spiritual "lift" to also be develop form a post o' yours.
Oh, Oh... I may have opened the flood gates!
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I had been to the boat and got all of the linens off to clean them. I was left with just one towel when we went out....and this is what happened. Two girls and only one towel!!!!
Perf! Thanks! I'm on my second jug o' strong coffee and it's only 5:25 AM here. TF always keeps me amused! BTW: I'll not ask bout linens needing cleaning - LOL
Or that....
Your impellers won't last long that way.
River Cruiser
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This is a starter and pump combination that I 1st saw advertised 30 years ago. At that time I thought it would be of especially good use on the diesel engines on air compressors and generators, but thru the years I do not remember any failure of a bottom end on any of those type units. I've seen several crank and bearing failures on scrapers, dozers and such, 2 of them could definitely be blamed on oil pump starvation from working on a slope maybe more.
http://www.prelub.com/web/Engine-Pre-Lube/pre-lube.html
http://www.prelub.com/web/Engine-Pre-Lube/pre-lube.html
sunchaser
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The worst smokers I have noted for over half a century seem to be Detroit made.
Which better made boat engines are you referring too? Since most boat engines are from auto or truck or farm or heavy equipment venues it seems the better made boat engines are all based on the quality (yes, that word again) of the marinization process - not to forget OWNER related maintenance.
mikecambrai
Veteran Member
Starting oil pressure
Large engines usually have an electric oil pump which is run up before starting the engine to lubricate the bearings and to lift the crankshaft up off the bearings.
My air start Deutz, 150hp @500 rpm with a large flywheel had a hand operated oil pump. So at the start up you decompress the cylinder valves on the open rockers, open the valve from the oil pump, crank the oil pump until you got pressure and could hear the oil squishing into the engine, close the oil pump valve and then operate the air start valve closing the rockers as the cylinders fired up.
This is a very cheap solution if you want peace of mind.
Large engines usually have an electric oil pump which is run up before starting the engine to lubricate the bearings and to lift the crankshaft up off the bearings.
My air start Deutz, 150hp @500 rpm with a large flywheel had a hand operated oil pump. So at the start up you decompress the cylinder valves on the open rockers, open the valve from the oil pump, crank the oil pump until you got pressure and could hear the oil squishing into the engine, close the oil pump valve and then operate the air start valve closing the rockers as the cylinders fired up.
This is a very cheap solution if you want peace of mind.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Mike,
How old is that Deutz?
How old is that Deutz?
psneeld
Guru
Just got confirmation from my oil analysis lab that if I keep using Rotella 15W40 instead of anything else... I can expect another 15,000 hours.
If I switch to ANY straight weight oil....they won't even bother analyzing my oil...the engine may not make it another 100 hours till sample.
If I switch to ANY straight weight oil....they won't even bother analyzing my oil...the engine may not make it another 100 hours till sample.
mikecambrai
Veteran Member
Oil pump at engine startup
She was built in 1956 and the engine is still going strong. Probably ten's of thousands of hours over a 40 year period in trade on the European canals.
Such a lovely sound too. My friends used to come just to listen to it running. of boating.
Probably the best engine that I have ever had on a boat over my 50 years of boating and 20 boats.
She was built in 1956 and the engine is still going strong. Probably ten's of thousands of hours over a 40 year period in trade on the European canals.
Such a lovely sound too. My friends used to come just to listen to it running. of boating.
Probably the best engine that I have ever had on a boat over my 50 years of boating and 20 boats.
FF
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The Deutz is great , but todays marine motorist wants joy stick steering so he does not have to learn how to dock.
Probably would not get the joy you do by pre oiling the engine .
Probably would not get the joy you do by pre oiling the engine .
siestakey
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Our Buddy Davis ( I own 1/6th of ) had Deutz in it sold them and replaced with Cats
was amazed at how much we got for the old Deutzs
the rest of the owners could not afford the fuel but I would just take it out at night slow and be on the fishing grounds in the morning the other guys used it as a go fast boat
Capthead
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I agree for diesel boat engines. Detroits smoke and are loud.
I was talking about the automobiles in my neighborhood that the owners get in, start them up and are driving away in three seconds. I've never seen any of them warm an engine.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Mikecambrai,
About the Duetz .. they made said cooled engines. Yours wasn't air cooled was it? Some more details and pics may be very interesting. As I recall the Duetz was very basic but having a preluber dosn't seem very basic.
About the Duetz .. they made said cooled engines. Yours wasn't air cooled was it? Some more details and pics may be very interesting. As I recall the Duetz was very basic but having a preluber dosn't seem very basic.
mikecambrai
Veteran Member
Deutz diesel engine
My Deutz was in a 39m canal barge running for 12 hours per day for 40 years. It was very heavy with a large flywheel, air start with 2 water pumps driven mechanically from the front of the engine. No belts on these machines.
It was a month after I bought her that I found out where the dry exhaust was emitted from, as it had a pretend funnel which I assumed was where the exhaust came out but it actually came out of the stern. At a tickover of around 100 rpm, friends would some on board just to listen to it. In the ten years that I had the the barge it never missed a beat and apart from changing the oil annually and turning the oil filter meshes daily that is all that was needed. They don't make them like that nowadays, but then it must have weighed in at a few ton!
My Deutz was in a 39m canal barge running for 12 hours per day for 40 years. It was very heavy with a large flywheel, air start with 2 water pumps driven mechanically from the front of the engine. No belts on these machines.
It was a month after I bought her that I found out where the dry exhaust was emitted from, as it had a pretend funnel which I assumed was where the exhaust came out but it actually came out of the stern. At a tickover of around 100 rpm, friends would some on board just to listen to it. In the ten years that I had the the barge it never missed a beat and apart from changing the oil annually and turning the oil filter meshes daily that is all that was needed. They don't make them like that nowadays, but then it must have weighed in at a few ton!
Ski in NC
Technical Guru
Deutz made air cooled engines, but also made purpose built true marine water cooled engines like the poster's canal boat has. Fantastic machines, only seen a couple.
