All chain rode stopper

manyboats said:

Tonic,
Re your post # 23 ... How many and what size are the fasteners that hold that chain stopper to the deck? Is it strong enough?
I like the chain hook w the safety pin.

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Everything (windlass, stopper and bit) is thru-bolted, through the teak, the fiberglass, and then through a single large ½" aluminum backing plate I custom made and glued in place. The chain stopper has 4 hefty SS machine screws although I can't recall the actual size other than being long enough to get through everything and take washers and nuts.

There's an old thread somewhere where I described the fun of wriggling into the chain locker to install the plate only to get my hair embedded in a mess of 3M 5200.

I use that chain hook directly on the chain. Easy on by hand (watch the fingers) and easy off with a kick.

Summertime evenings around here are just about guaranteed to be calm winds so I usually do not bother with a stretchy, nylon snubber (several available, however).

Steve

O C Diver said:

I also use the slotted plate setup. Had the plate fall off twice and devised a simple solution. I fasten the plate to the chain with a small zip tie. Easy to put on; easy to take off, and the hook / plate never comes off the chain while deployed.

Ted

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OCD, I'd possibly re-think that arrangement. I have had on occasion to have to do a quick up-anchor in a nasty wind shift, and in the dark and rain, and the last thing I'd want to have to do is locate exactly where my tie was to snip it to bring in the anchor in those circumstances. Sure, it's not a common scenario, but I have had an occasion when two boats, a yacht and us, sharing a bay, had to to do this. He got his chain hook jammed in his bow roller in a bit of a panic, and he was dragging, and he went aground. Fortunately we got away and were able to summon marine rescue to pull him off when we got cellphone reception, as the VHF had closed down for the night.

Just a thought…

I prefer to use tension on the chain hook to let it down, where the hook is then just below the waterline, and I let a loop of chain down to about a foot below the water, (not as much as Marin), and I like the fact that tension means it never comes off, but when we pull in, it always drops off before the hook gets anywhere near the roller and just hangs, waiting to be retrieved when ready. I tie the snubber off to the massive Samson post, so I just loop the snubber line round that when on the move.

Kevin, apart from the above, I also have a shorter, lighter, snubber line with a simple hook on it I use for day/lunch anchoring by hooking it into the chain just inboard of the roller, and also do that as a back-up to the main snubber if the main one was to drop off or come adrift in some way, to save tension going onto the winch suddenly.

Peter-- The long loop of chain we were advised to let down between the bow roller and the chain grab serves as a kind of kellet. The weight of the long loop of chain hanging off the chain grab helps reduce the upwards angle of pull on the anchor.

We also let the chain grab on the snubber bridle down a good ten feet or more below the surface of the water for the same reason-- to help reduce the angle of pull on the anchor.

We started using this technique when we first heard about it from the very experienced cruisers (power and sail) in the boating club we joined a couple of years after we bought the boat. So we were using this technique with our Bruce anchor long before we got our current anchor, and we still use it today.

Tonic,
OK good. The chain stoppers just look small and wimpy in the pics.

Panope,
Now that is a stopper I can relate to. Really like your setup. Is that a manual winch? What are your hawshole "window frames" made of? If they're all steel the'd be really heavy .. it appears.

I use 5/8" nylon line and cleat it off to a large 4 bolt cleat centered and dedicated to the rode.

Eric,

The windlass is manual. Simpson Lawrence 555. Hawse holes are aluminum - along with the rest of the boat.

Steve

Panope

That's one interesting looking boat you have there.

cardude01 said:

Panope

That's one interesting looking boat you have there.

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I agree. It reminds me a lot of the Luxemotor barges (original and replica) you see plying the canals of Europe. Some of those also have a forward mast, albeit folding.

OK Steve that's perfect. I forgot she was aluminum.

I'm a fan of nylon for a rode and have an idea that a short (say about 15') of heavy chain attached to the anchor w both a capstan and a manual windlass I could bring aboard the 15' of heavy chain and a big anchor in a very short time. Probably 3/8" chain. Could probably use 9/16" but a 9/16" gypsy wheel would probably be hard to find. I see those manual windlasses for sale regularly. And if the electric capstan died I'd bring in the whole rode w the manual. I like a lot about what I see in your boat Steve.

Thanks Cardude, Tonic, Eric.

Here is a better shot from the (same anchorage) taken after final painting of the pilot house addition.



Love that canal barge, Tonic. Panope might just make a decent Euro canal or Great Looper as she only draws 4 feet and the mast is set on a tabernacle. Sometimes folks do not notice the tabernacle as it looks round like the rest of the mast. It is a segment of the same pipe as the mast, cut at the 6 to 1 "scarf" angle and a heavy plate welded in to close up the opening.

Steve

Looking at the photo the chain stopper is aligned with the rope drum,

so it never holds the vessel, is it just a quick way to secure the anchor when up?

FF said:

Looking at the photo the chain stopper is aligned with the rope drum,

so it never holds the vessel, is it just a quick way to secure the anchor when up?

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The chain stopper would be the chain hook towards the upper right of the photo I believe.

To the OP if you go all chain may I suggest if you have not already thought of it a three stand splice on the end with maybe 50+ foot of line which is tied firmly to a strong fitting in chain locker. This is so in an emergency or a none functioning windless situation you can slip the anchor with a knife and tie a float to the line to be retrieved at a later date. Also in severe weather you can let out your line for some elasticity and hall some in as chafe occurs. I use all chain but have a couple hundred feet of line for when I let out more than the usual 5 to one scope.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s42/snubber-17948.html?highlight=snubber
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s42/what-size-bridle-17706.html?highlight=snubber
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s42/chain-hooks-17200.html?highlight=snubber

So there are three lengthy threads to study on just the past three months. If the horse still isn't completely dead, I am sure search will turn up more!

I probably should read all of the response here to find out if someone else mentioned a rolling hitch but I'm running out the door...We have been sailing for over 35 years and all of our boats use all chain for anchoring. I use a 20 foot snubber line(rope) and tie a rolling hitch on the chain. Never has failed, never has come un-hooked. I sleep great with that set-up
Bill

bcarli said:

I probably should read all of the response here to find out if someone else mentioned a rolling hitch but I'm running out the door...We have been sailing for over 35 years and all of our boats use all chain for anchoring. I use a 20 foot snubber line(rope) and tie a rolling hitch on the chain. Never has failed, never has come un-hooked. I sleep great with that set-up
Bill

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I use a single snubber out the bow roller with a rolling hitch also...still experimenting with this boat though.

That's all we've ever used, but then we've never been caught in any really significant blows either.

bcarli said:

I probably should read all of the response here to find out if someone else mentioned a rolling hitch but I'm running out the door...We have been sailing for over 35 years and all of our boats use all chain for anchoring. I use a 20 foot snubber line(rope) and tie a rolling hitch on the chain. Never has failed, never has come un-hooked. I sleep great with that set-up
Bill

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The rolling hitch, I think, is superior in strength and utility to a chain hook, but I still prefer a soft shackle. When the shackle isn't securing the snub line to the chain, it is the fail safe for the chain letting go when underway.

bcarli said:

I use a 20 foot snubber line (rope) and tie a rolling hitch on the chain. Never has failed, never has come un-hooked. I sleep great with that set-up
Bill

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Hail Bill!

That's what we use on Infinity. We do have all the other methods, the chain hooks, the 'C'-plates, bridles, etc. I have used them all with success, but in my quest for simplicity, I always go back to the 25' piece of 3/4", 3-strand nylon. Rolling hitch goes on chain, other end made fast to the mooring cleat on deck. I find it simple, fast & efficient. The hitch binds tight, tight, the more weight and dynamic loads put on it, the better. The hitch has never come undone (and no real biggy if it ever did), and it's simple to undo once recovered to deck.

anchor rode

I also like the bridle. I place the hook over a link, cleat off the two ends and let out more chain until the load is transferred to the bridle. I also am OC type on the hook. I have dragged and it's not fun. Before turning in I check it out and take a reading with a hand held compass to a point on land. Then I check that reading at intervals during the day. Actually, I do the hand held right after I am set.

Two things. When you replace your windlass buy an above deck horizontal shaft windlass. They last at least three times as long as a vertical shaft windlass just due to the salt water intrusion.
Second I would recommend the following hook spliced to a nylon snubber line which is recommended for a few reasons.
First the snubber gives the vessel a "Softer" ride at anchor.
Second it takes the load off of the windlass which is recommended by each manufacturer.
Third, with a longer snubber you are less likely that the chain will come in contact with the hull when the current and wind oppose each other.

"Two things. When you replace your windlass buy an above deck horizontal shaft windlass. They last at least three times as long as a vertical shaft windlass just due to the salt water intrusion."

I call baloney!

Plus not all vessels can be fitted with a vertical windlass.

Pgitug said:

When you replace your windlass buy an above deck horizontal shaft windlass. They last at least three times as long as a vertical shaft windlass just due to the salt water intrusion.

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Not sure I buy into that notion. I see as many boats that are used regularly (as opposed to dock queens), possibly even more if I include the sailboats, with vertical capstan windlasses. Some of them are older than our boat (1973) and their windlasses appeaer fine to me. My guess is that the windlass manufacturers, assuming they are reputable outfits, take whatever design precautions are needed to ensure their products have a competitive service life in a salt water environment. Having your product crap out and earn a poor repuation is not a great way to stay in business.

Our boat, like a lot of Grand Banks, started life with a horizontal windlass. When we replaced the no-name windlass that was on the boat when we bought it after it lunched some gear teeth we did so with a similarly-sized Lofrans Tigres in large part because the big laminated mounting block was all set up for it (photo). But we've got boating friends whose boats were built with vertical captstan windlasses and they have not seemed to have had any problems with them in a whole lot of years of boating.

I believe that some newer vintage GBs are fitted with vertical windlasses. I would be surprised if a company like this would fit their boats with an important piece of gear that's known to have a short service life.

Horizontal vs Verticle Windlass

I don't mean to offend Mariners with verticle shaft windlass, but think about the physics. Consider the plumbers motto. S..t runs down hill. So does salt water. The guts of the verticle shaft windlass is protected by one surface mounted round seal. Salt water puddles on top of this seal every time you get spray on your deck and/or use your windlass. Once the rubber seal dries out the salt water drips down the stainless steel shaft to the bearing set and onto the motor/gear set assembly. My first verticle windlass had ball bearings. They froze up within five years. The new verticle shaft windlass (yes, I did not have deck space either) had press fit broze bearing sleeves that looked like they would last longer. If you want your verticle shaft windlass to provide you with years of service I would suggest you follow the manufactures directions and completely disassemble and grease your unit every year. My point is with a horizontal shaft windlass these issues are mitigated by the design. Case in point, the original post, KSANDERS, said he was replacing his chain AND his windlass. 5-1 odds says the windlass he is replacing,is a verticle shaft design. Any takers on that bet?

Pgitug said:

I don't mean to offend Mariners with verticle shaft windlass, but think about the physics. Consider the plumbers motto. S..t runs down hill. So does salt water. The guts of the verticle shaft windlass is protected by one surface mounted round seal. Salt water puddles on top of this seal every time you get spray on your deck and/or use your windlass. Once the rubber seal dries out the salt water drips down the stainless steel shaft to the bearing set and onto the motor/gear set assembly. My first verticle windlass had ball bearings. They froze up within five years. The new verticle shaft windlass (yes, I did not have deck space either) had press fit broze bearing sleeves that looked like they would last longer. If you want your verticle shaft windlass to provide you with years of service I would suggest you follow the manufactures directions and completely disassemble and grease your unit every year. My point is with a horizontal shaft windlass these issues are mitigated by the design. Case in point, the original post, KSANDERS, said he was replacing his chain AND his windlass. 5-1 odds says the windlass he is replacing,is a verticle shaft design. Any takers on that bet?

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I should take that bet.....he is replacing a Muir Cougar....which I think is horizontal...but can't be 100 percent sure.

subs can be made water tight...windlasses can't be impossible to keep going without super tedious maintenance. Even horizontal past a certain age need to be checked annually if you are going to trust it with your boat (back).

Aside from the discussion of where water goes the vertical windless has more grip on a chain or rode. If you do a combo you pretty much ought to use vertical or you will have grip problems with the splice and rode part. If one has to see to believe and my take on this site is that is often the case, go look at vertical and horizontal units and count chain links being engaged by wildcat teeth and how secure the first and last link on the wildcat are pressed onto the wildcat. Even one extra tooth which equates to a greater % of circumference of grip area can be a big deal with rode. That last sentence could also explain why some don't do well with the chain rode combo.

No chain stoppers or snubbers needed w the reel winch.

Mounting bolts cover a wide deck area and as strong as the deck itself.

Notice the multiple parts of the rode. Very heavy chain is next to the anchor and sometimes two more sizes of chain are employed. Any number of shackles can be used as well as any type of chain.

The winch itself is mostly aluminum so it's not as heavy as it looks. Some are powder coated to help w the very industrial look.

And about half are with combination rodes. Usually one dosn't see the nylon line in the harbor as it's under the chain unless the chain is short. Quite a few are.

They are mostly hydraulic (but can be bought new as electric) and require a hyd pump usually a PTO from a belt off the front of the engine. An electric engage/disengage clutch puts hydraulic pressure to the winch. Most are very powerful and larger ones are equipped w a chain reduction drive .. even more powerful.

This is the ultimate in ground tackle IMO. Membership in the local yacht club may be elusive though.

Here's our snubber and chain stopped. The snubber runs through a large eye a little above the water line the back up to the roller.

Note the chain hook connected to the bottom of the chain stop, that's the chain hook for the snubber.

Your "three times longer" statement is still baloney.

N4712 said:

Here's our snubber and chain stopped. The snubber runs through a large eye a little above the water line the back up to the roller.

Note the chain hook connected to the bottom of the chain stop, that's the chain hook for the snubber.

View attachment 37167
View attachment 37168

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So the snubber line runs through an eye mounted low on the hull even when in use? No chafe protection?