Security (other than weapons)

This was raised in another thread and I thought worthy of discussion. Some yachts go to a great deal of trouble to put in good security systems. The availability, choices and prices have dropped. Yet, in the 30' to 70' range which is where most here are, you see very little.

I'm not just talking cameras. What about intrusion detection? Sirens, even to the point of being unbearable and chasing away? Lights, even to the point of those that are strong enough to scare away and/or incapacitate? Smoke, too thick to go through? Or just something to alert you? Many houses have some form of "burglar alarm" but not many boats it seems in the 30-70' size range. And this isn't to say cameras aren't part of it. Even cameras and speakers so you can speak to the intruder.

I see people comment worried about theft, talking about needing weapons to fight potential intruders, but what is being done to prevent intruders.

And why is more not being done?

We usually leave the doors unlocked too. You have to pay people to steal the big boats. Repairs to the doors cost more than the TVs that crackheads will steal. Let em have em.
House are a total different story as those shithead thieves don't worry about drowning. Easy to drive in-easy to drive away. Boats take more effort than most scumbags will apply. Thats also why most never learned to swim. I like how they pay good money for tattoos on their necks so they're easier to identity.
You know its rare one who will enter a structure, car or boat that has open doors and windows, I guess they figure it's a trap?

pilothouse king said:

We usually leave the doors unlocked too...

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We never lock the doors. We hoist the dinghy every night and shut the transom door. Saloon doors are usually open for ventilation. I do have a baseball bat and wasp spray by the side of the bed.

We tried motion sensors tied to lights. Birds were an issue and even after trying to narrow the sensors beam width, so the water wouldn't set them off, we still had to many false positives.

A good option that friends had installed, was a panic button tied to lights and a very loud siren. They located the buttons in the master and pilot house.

For us the best deterrent has been Morgan. People who case out boats usually don't pick one with a dog. Morgan wouldn't hurt a flea but they don't know that.

BandB said:

And why is more not being done?

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pilothouse king said:

Repairs to the doors cost more than the TVs that crackheads will steal. Let em have em.

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I do absolutely nothing to prevent intruders while away from the boat. Doors and hatches are left unlocked intentionally for the reason stated by PK above. I can attest 1st hand the expense a crowbar or screw driver will do to any boat on this forum's hatches, doors or windows. My fathers 5 year old houseboat was securely locked with curtains drawn when burglarized 30 years ago, total value of the damage done to the boat gaining access was 10-15 times the new replacement value of items stolen. It also took nearly three months to have the damage repaired, the items where replaced in less than an hour of shopping.

Insurance will cover any loss incurred above the deductible. My keys are left aboard too, all I ask is if any forum members take my boat out in my absence they at least leave a note on the steering wheel reminding me to restock the fridge and fill the fuel tank before I leave the marina

Intruder prevention while aboard is outside the parameters BandB laid out for this thread.

Greetings,
Two words: Guard slugs!

Based on the thread title...everything is a weapon with enough of the proper training.

It is a defensive plan that incorporates human input and equipment to provide the best possible defense.

For those that have never had any of this kind of training....the several thousand it costs by real experts will provide a foundation and probably written guidelines for several different scenarios that may come your way while on your boat.

An NRA membership, basic military training, and a big male ego won't cut it in real life.

We cruise with our dog, Water.

We we rescued her as a pup, Lab Rescue told us she was pure lab and the runt of the litter, that neither of her parents were over 50 lbs. Well, now she is 85 lbs and ripped like a linebacker. She has a big, blocky, anvil shaped head and can crush branches the size of your calf in one or two bites.

Lots of people think she has pit bull in her, and though I hate to think that she scares people, I think they may be right. She is the most loyal and smartest dog I have ever owned. She would NEVER hurt anyone in her family, in that way she is exactly like a big goofy lab.

I'm sure she wouldn't hurt a stranger unless she felt threatened. In my experience most dogs won't attack unless they are really scared. But more and more I think she would defend her space. I'm sure she would defend her kids and I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of her wrath.

When we were in the Bahamas a few weeks ago I called a local bonefish guide to set up a charter. We were down at the beach when he came by the boat, so he stepped on board to leave a note. Water was closed up in the cabin. His quote "I didn't leave a note mon...I got myself off dot boat as fast as I could."

I've never admired or wanted any sort of aggressive breed, and I've always trained dogs to be sweet and friendly to everyone. But in some ways it is kind of nice that strangers respect her space.

psneeld said:

Based on the thread title...everything is a weapon with enough of the proper training.

It is a defensive plan that incorporates human input and equipment to provide the best possible defense.

For those that have never had any of this kind of training....the several thousand it costs by real experts will provide a foundation and probably written guidelines for several different scenarios that may come your way while on your boat.

An NRA membership, basic military training, and a big male ego won't cut it in real life.

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You're correct in that the things I'm talking about are defensive weapons. I'm rather amazed at the responses so far. Perhaps it's based on their cruising grounds and not trips to the Caribbean or Mexico or elsewhere.

It's not difficult today to set up so you're aware of anyone boarding the boat, whether you're there or not. Text message alerts are simple. Cams rather the same. In fact the same equipment can be used for monitoring the boat and it's systems and for security. We certainly value notification if water is in the bilge or if the electric has gone off

As defensive weapons, lights or sirens or smoke can be quite effective. There are top security companies using those and combinations to protect shipping vessels in areas of heavy piracy. There are actually military versions of searchlights. But, yes, it is a weapon to use these items to ward off trouble.

My title for the thread probably should have read "Other than gunsor knives" to be technically more accurate.

One item mentioned above was put the dinghy back up. I'm amazed at the number of dinghies and outboards stolen as they sit beside the boat while most of those boats have good davit or crane systems.

Dogs are early warning...like infra red...past that they are easily bypassed with a milkbone or something lethal.


While it's true that a criminal might bypass a house or boat with a dog on it...I would never bet life or limb on it.


The 2 biggest defenses against crime are avoid likely areas or opportunities...luck of the draw.


Once the crime starts...only extensive training and equipment can guarantee getting past that phase.


While in the "crime" phase...you are playing the world's highest stakes poker game.

BandB said:

..I'm rather amazed at the responses so far. Perhaps it's based on their cruising grounds and not trips to the Caribbean or Mexico or elsewhere....

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I think a lot of it is how you present and carry yourself, both on your boat and on land - not necessarily where you cruise. Most states and cities have areas that you wouldn't go into at certain times. I think it's the same when you cruise, so we try to be smart on where we anchor or dock as well as when we're on/off the boat. After 47 different countries/territories, on a boat less <43", with just the 2 of us, we've never been broken into or had boarders (not that we know of anyway)

I also leave doors unlocked and keys in when I'm not on the boat. Those beautiful teak doors would be no match for a pry bar and very hard to replace or have properly repaired. We have nothing on the boat that cant be easily replaced.

When we're on the boat it's a different story. At our mooring I'm not worried, but at a dock while traveling I always lock the doors at night. Sure they won't stop a pry bar any better than when we're not there, but being a light sleeper I should at least hear them.

Ken

To all those of you who leave the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition, how does your insurer feel about that?

BandB said:

To all those of you who leave the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition, how does your insurer feel about that?

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Funny that they ask about additional anti-theft stuff but don't address those specifically.

Though in my mind you are not "mitigating" possible theft therefore negligent and partially liable for the loss. Somewhat like taking no action during a storm to protect property from damage.

psneeld said:

Funny that they ask about additional anti-theft stuff but don't address those specifically.

Though in my mind you are not "mitigating" possible theft therefore negligent and partially liable for the loss. Somewhat like taking no action during a storm to protect property from damage.

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I think they assume, but I sure bet in the event of a claim they'd ask. Would probably pay anyway but perhaps give them a negotiating tool or cause for delay.

BandB said:

I think they assume, but I sure bet in the event of a claim they'd ask. Would probably pay anyway but perhaps give them a negotiating tool or cause for delay.

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Or the ultimate...drop you....then try to get reasonable insurance from anyone else....ouch!

We also do not lock the boat. What can be taken is not worth the damage. We have installed a Boatnanny cell phone security system that has motion, sound, bilge, temperatures, AC and Dc which sends a text messages to 3 phone/e mails. Pricy but worth peace of mind.

We keep our steel doors locked when absent or gone to bed.

BandB said:

To all those of you who leave the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition, how does your insurer feel about that?

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I can care less how they feel. It's a business transaction, leave the feelings at home.

How many cars are stolen daily that are unlocked with the keys in the ignition? Never heard of a claim denied yet, auto or yacht, though I'm sure there has been a few somewhere somebody can quote.

I hadn't considered this until today. Turns out we are already loaded....


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

The biggest hassle is places like NJ where the concept is

If you Cant Steal it DESTROY IT!

In NYC the solution is Show Sh**.

The thieves will be looking for the biggest fast EZ money target , so leaving a few items of crap, uncoiled messy lines , pug ugly fenders on deck , may not be fun for dock mates , but usually will convince a thief yours is a less desirable target.

A simple wired door may from any alarm supply can turn on exterior lights and a noise if desired.

Leave the door unlocked , and install a Mace Repellant setup , trip wire works,

but electric , with delay is better should you forget to disarm the system...

I looked into the several alarm systems available for boats when I bought my boat back in '10. I decided to skip all these systems as they were re-active, they notified you of an intrusion after it happened or the perp was standing on your boat about to enter. Either case it is to late. You may get a loud siren but will a dock mate investigate, and if they do you have just put them in danger. If the alarm system notifies you via cell phone do you really think the perp will stay around long enough for you to contact the police and wait around long enough for the police to arrive?

While on the boat the situation is very different. You don't want to get hurt, so protecting life and limb is more important than protecting stuff.
psneeld sumed it up nicely: "Once the crime starts...only extensive training and equipment can guarantee getting past that phase.
While in the "crime" phase...you are playing the world's highest stakes poker game.

So make it easier for the perp to go somewhere else. A dog can't hurt. A panic button can't either. Insurance for the rest. Don't know about RT Firefly's guard slugs though.

BandB said:

To all those of you who leave the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition, how does your insurer feel about that?

Click to expand...

I don't lock anything either. And I never read my policy close enough to know if locking doors is a requirement.
I normally don't lock my house, I only lock my truck when I go to Walmart or park in a big city, and at home my truck key is in the cupholder with the truck unlocked in the driveway.

Where can I get some of those attack slugs?

I too find this "I never lock my boat" theory rather odd. I get the convertible car analogy but I'm not sure it's apples to apples.

I can't imagine being the easiest boat on the pier to enter. Seems to me leaving some lights on, locking up and perhaps having an alarm light or warning sign on board, even if you don't actually have an alarm, would encourage a thief to move on to another, easier target. But to each his own.

BandB said:

...It's not difficult today to set up so you're aware of anyone boarding the boat, whether you're there or not. Text message alerts are simple. Cams rather the same. In fact the same equipment can be used for monitoring the boat and it's systems and for security. We certainly value notification if water is in the bilge or if the electric has gone off...

Click to expand...

I can tell we cruise differently but text alerts, cams maybe great in the US, foreign cities and marinas (from what I've been told) but parts of Mexico, Bahamas, Panama plus a lot of places in-between do not have cell coverage. So unless you carry a sat phone, when you're away from the boat....

What do you have for security when you're on your boat?

Security on my boat

Greetings,
Mr. jl. "...Where can I get some of those attack slugs?..." Well, slugs can be found under most any cabbage leaf BUT, and it's a BIG but...The secret is all in the diet and training.
There are several schools of thought regarding training regimes. Hunt and seek, lie in wait, active scanning and drop and drop to name a few. I am NOT going to tell you how "Arnold" (our personal attack slug-stealth (ASS)) has been conditioned as this is an open forum and I don't wish to compromise our security preparations but suffice to say, our ASS is quite able to protect our assets.
As with training regimes there is also some controversy regarding body armor...

Some claim an advantage in that the armor protects your ASS in the event of a direct frontal assault but Arnold seems to feel, and we agree, that such "protection" limits his speed and maneuverability.
I have the nagging feeling that I've already disclosed too much so Mr. jl., I'm afraid you'll have to research further on your own. As to diet, again, I do not wish to reveal too much. I'm sure you can appreciate my concerns...

I leave mine unlocked, with the keys hanging next to the helm. I figure the biggest risk is a fire on a nearby boat and it might be handy if someone could move my boat for me.

But maybe I'm pushing my luck and should get some ASS coverage.

Ah ha RT - I have deduced your ASS plan - put them on the decks and any perp will slip and slide and break his neck

RTF.....Too funny

BandB said:

To all those of you who leave the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition, how does your insurer feel about that?

Click to expand...

In my opinion, I AM mitigating possible loss by leaving the doors unlocked. My boat is normally moored in a fairly busy waterway. Once someone has gone to the trouble to board my boat with the intention to steal, the carved solid teak doors will not be an issue for them. The way I look at it there is very little of any value to "take away" and they would take what they would take anyway. Repairing/replacing the wooden doors would probably be more difficult and/or expensive than replacing anything "portable". As far as stealing the boat is concerned, I really really think that is extremely unlikely. Then again, if someone boards with the intention to steal the boat, the lack of keys will be very little impediment. Once inside, they could take all the time they needed out of sight to get the engines started. I know I could do it without the keys in less than 5 minutes.

I'm sure a lot of my reasoning is colored by the fact that there is very little boat theft in the areas I normally cruise. If I cruised in a different area I might have a totally different perspective.

Ken