Buying our first trawler

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FF has long promoted his viewpoint on overpowered vessels and under utilised diesel engines.

I don't agree with him on this, but he is entitled to put his view, and provide supporting evidence, without coming under personal attack.

My experience, and that of many others, is that as long as the engine maintains its working temperature, and if turboed, one or two pounds of boost is nice, there is unlikely to be any problem. This is precisely how I run the boat and how it has been run for most of the last 30 years.
 
Gents,

I'm not taking sides here but I think Ricks frustration with FF is that almost everything FF posts has a hint of shade tree attached.* Everyone isn't interested in doing it "on the cheap" or the "just get by" method.* FF has a tendency to go for the cheapest way.*When someone talks of buying a boat he recommends to come to FL and get a steal.* Well first off all of the steals are not in FL and secondly some folks don't want a project boat that most steals turn into. *When buying a boat or fixing an engine he works on the assumption that everyone wants to carry a large tool box around and make fixing the stuff that breaks their life's work.* And I'm sure some folks do.

Where as I think Rick is more of a perfectionist and "damn the cost" gives advice on how to fix it correctly from an engineering point of view.

I do believe that some folks that own a boat should not be allowed to own tools, period. Least not*be allowed to work on the boat.
 
No matter if some one is right or wrong, there is a CIVIL way to discuss your differences.* Let the members decide for them self's who's right, and who's advice to follow.* It's well known that there are several very experienced members on this forum, and we all learn from the opinions of others.* Those members have provided me with a lot of valuable information, some of which I have put to practical use. Trouble is, when it gets to name calling (or worse), a lot of folks simply quit reading.* I truly believe this happened over at PM.* So, if you could, (and I think I speak for a lot of folks here), "tone it down".* Please, by all means, give us your opinions to consider. We love to have lots of facts to rattle around our heads, it's one of the things that makes life fun.......................Arctic Traveller
 
Arctic Traveller wrote:So, if you could, (and I think I speak for a lot of folks here), "tone it down".
Consider it toned down.

*
 
RickB wrote:
Consider it toned down.*
Thanks, and PLEASE continue giving us the benifit of your experience.* Every one has something to offer, and something to learn, and I love learning..................Arctic Traveller

*
 
I find his misconceptions and lack of knowledge without the wisdom to refrain from misinforming those who come for information to be irresponsible. I find that truly unacceptable so I guess it's a draw.


Ricks "understanding " of diesels results from sitting in a room with an operating unit , watching the clock and practicing to pass a "test" .

This gives great practice at emoting canned answers , but as noticed NO ability to actually understand the principals of efficient diesel operation.

And as a Lefty , when simple reality intrudes , attack the messenger is the only recourse.

Internet postings are mere opinion (as when 134 divided by 40 causees a hissyfit, )

Rick and I have disagreed for years , I expect he is beyond the point of actual learning and understanding , but I would hope for minor civility.
 
JD wrote:Where as I think Rick is more of a perfectionist and "damn the cost" gives advice on how to fix it correctly from an engineering point of view.

Thanks for the support.

I have a small but very important correction to make though. Even billionaire boat owners rarely if ever take a "damn the cost" approach and look at every boat buck the same way the rest of us do. They want value and that is what I am employed to provide.

Only once have I heard an owner say damn the cost and that was an exceptional case where not only was a great deal of money at risk but also a promise the owner felt he had to keep regardless of the financial burden.

Fixing something correctly, or choosing the right equipment based on its suitability, reliability, and life cycle cost is what our clients demand and what we ensure happens. Doing that means knowing how equipment works, what causes it to fail, how it can be repaired and if it is worth repairing at all or if it can hold together long enough to make it to the next yard period. This is not Gucci engineering, it is value added and value conscious marine engineering intended to protect the owner's investment, limit his liability, and make sure he stays in boating. I look at a boat and a problem as if it were my boat and my own money.

To keep our clients in boating they have to know they are getting what they pay for and enjoy a painless as possible ownership experience. This involves making sure the crew knows what they are doing, the yard work, and engine overhauls are performed correctly, only required work is done, and the costs are carefully controlled. We don't just throw the owner's money at a problem and we don't spend money on voodoo engineering either.

Much of the machinery used on even the largest yachts is a version of the same machinery I have on my own boat and most of you have. The tenders on a large yacht (often carried on a "shadow boat") are the same size as the boats owned by many readers here and use the same main engines and generators. The ground tackle is the same, and the radio and nav equipment is the same. A lot of what I say is based on the use of that equipment by many people in many places in many different conditions. Many of these yachts cross the Atlantic twice a year on their own bottoms, or routinely circumnavigate the Earth.* Those boats get used, they work for a living and the real world shows what works, how well it works, and for how long it works.

When you spend a few million $ each year keeping a boat working, you get advice from the manufacturer and the technical staff who know the engines and other machinery. We work closely with class society engineers and surveyors (these are not knock knock surveyors, these are inspectors who have the authority to effectively chain a boat to the dock) and negotiate how repairs can be made economically and safely. We can't afford to "wing it." If I or my opposite in our European office told the owners some of the stuff that contributed to this long winded post we would be out of business and in court before the boat was even tied up.

So, bottom line, it's about doing what's right, not wasting anyone's money, and finally, taking responsibility for decisions and recommendations that might cost a lot more than any amount of money can undo.

*


-- Edited by RickB on Wednesday 3rd of November 2010 05:09:10 AM

-- Edited by RickB on Wednesday 3rd of November 2010 05:11:39 AM
 
RickB wrote:

*
JD wrote:Where as I think Rick is more of a perfectionist and "damn the cost" gives advice on how to fix it correctly from an engineering point of view.

Thanks for the support.

I have a small but very important correction to make though. Even billionaire boat owners rarely if ever take a "damn the cost" approach and look at every boat buck the same way the rest of us do. They want value and that is what I am employed to provide.

Only once have I heard an owner say damn the cost and that was an exceptional case where not only was a great deal of money at risk but also a promise the owner felt he had to keep regardless of the financial burden.

Fixing something correctly, or choosing the right equipment based on its suitability, reliability, and life cycle cost is what our clients demand and what we ensure happens. Doing that means knowing how equipment works, what causes it to fail, how it can be repaired and if it is worth repairing at all or if it can hold together long enough to make it to the next yard period. This is not Gucci engineering, it is value added and value conscious marine engineering intended to protect the owner's investment, limit his liability, and make sure he stays in boating. I look at a boat and a problem as if it were my boat and my own money.

To keep our clients in boating they have to know they are getting what they pay for and enjoy a painless as possible ownership experience. This involves making sure the crew knows what they are doing, the yard work, and engine overhauls are performed correctly, only required work is done, and the costs are carefully controlled. We don't just throw the owner's money at a problem and we don't spend money on voodoo engineering either.

Much of the machinery used on even the largest yachts is a version of the same machinery I have on my own boat and most of you have. The tenders on a large yacht (often carried on a "shadow boat") are the same size as the boats owned by many readers here and use the same main engines and generators. The ground tackle is the same, and the radio and nav equipment is the same. A lot of what I say is based on the use of that equipment by many people in many places in many different conditions. Many of these yachts cross the Atlantic twice a year on their own bottoms, or routinely circumnavigate the Earth.* Those boats get used, they work for a living and the real world shows what works, how well it works, and for how long it works.

When you spend a few million $ each year keeping a boat working, you get advice from the manufacturer and the technical staff who know the engines and other machinery. We work closely with class society engineers and surveyors (these are not knock knock surveyors, these are inspectors who have the authority to effectively chain a boat to the dock) and negotiate how repairs can be made economically and safely. We can't afford to "wing it." If I or my opposite in our European office told the owners some of the stuff that contributed to this long winded post we would be out of business and in court before the boat was even tied up.

So, bottom line, it's about doing what's right, not wasting anyone's money, and finally, taking responsibility for decisions and recommendations that might cost a lot more than any amount of money can undo.

*


-- Edited by RickB on Wednesday 3rd of November 2010 05:09:10 AM

-- Edited by RickB on Wednesday 3rd of November 2010 05:11:39 AM
*

Damn Rick.... well said!
I always try to keep costs to a minimum on my boat expenses... right to up to the point that safety, the ability to be able to enjoy the boat ( what we are all here for ) or that being too cheap will cost more in the long term... value added engineering.
Post away!
HOLLYWOOD

*


-- Edited by hollywood8118 on Wednesday 3rd of November 2010 07:35:03 AM
 
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