Whats wrong with Bayliners?

So here we go, those who can afford to buy a new expensive boat are fair game for ridicule and silly remarks. Larger boats always have been and always will be EXPENSIVE. Thus rich guys are needed, and badly.

Without those who have the financial ability to purchase new vessels there would be no boating industry, no fancy electronics, no Tesla, no Cobras, no Kim Kardashian (humm on that one), no good beer, no twins, no KK rendezvous and no old Mainships for wannabes to work on and dream about newer and bigger. In fact the entity known as TF would not exist thus no forum from which to yak about our mutual shared water borne interests.

God bless those who sooner or later sell their nice but now less expensive vessels to those of us who are not as affluent. Why we are less affluent gets complicated but very deep down most of us know why. I sure do.

Well said Sunchaser. Maybe it's not so important the why~only important that they did. As you said, this opened the door for many of us?️


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

WOW! Fun read! You would think this was a Club Sea Ray...Bayliner Owner Club Thread!!!

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

WOW! Fun read! You would think this was a Club Sea Ray...Bayliner Owner Club Thread!!!

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Well, at least the Bayliner portion of that. I do think that one important point was made and that is there are a lot of happy Bayliner owners. I'm sure Sea Ray would also get the same. It's common for people to put these and other brands down. I guess I've heard every brand put down at one time or another and 95% of the time it's by someone who not only has never owned one but never even been on one. It's not just online that one must consider the source. In fact, online in many ways is safer information as at least someone can refute it.

The reality is most boats are good. The key is finding the right one for you.

Amen!

BandB said:

The reality is most boats are good. The key is finding the right one for you.

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Rhetoric is just that and as you said at least online someone is there to refute it. Many of us on the forum purchase used boats and most of those are perhaps 20+ years old, mine is 48 years old Fact is though if it checks out as otherwise sound and is the right boat for you who gives a darn what the brand is. Wherever you cruise the folks in the 17' center console are enjoying the same view and water as the folks in the 60 meter yacht.

If it where not for folks purchasing brand new boats and selling them off my family would never enjoy the water in the reasonable comfort level we enjoy. Now where is my lottery ticket

I never met a Bayliner trasher who has actually owned one. Maybe they exist. I've not met one in 35+ years on large boats.

OK, enough of this love fest. A question - are BL owners overly sensitive? Is there another brand out there that has the ready defenders jump to the fore like the leapers from the trenches at Verdun. If only certain politicians were so lucky with their posse. Geez this thread even has a group of FL retirees in muscle shirts looking to repel BL boarders.

I suppose we can start on CHBs and other Taiwan boats. I like mine

sunchaser said:

OK, enough of this love fest. A question - are BL owners overly sensitive? Is there another brand out there that has the ready defenders jump to the fore like the leapers from the trenches at Verdun. If only certain politicians were so lucky with their posse. Geez this thread even has a group of FL retirees in muscle shirts looking to repel BL boarders.

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In a word- nope.


Most Bayliner owners I know, (and I know a lot of them- I'm a moderator on the Bayliner Owners Club site) have thick skin, and shrug off the banter tossed against the brand. As mentioned earlier, most Bayliner horror stories are (at best) second or 3rd hand and not based in reality/fact.

Further, as one that deals with the marine side of insurance, I can attest that there are proportionally more claims against Bayliners than any other brand- because there are proportionally more Bayiners by far that have been sold than any other brand. There has been no rash of Bayliner transoms falling off, not Bayliner decks suddenly caving in, no Bayliner bottoms with rampant blistering.

I love it when a Sea Ray owner talks about "that crappy Bayliner __________ (engine, cleats, outdrive, etc). Tells me that person is clueless about who the parent company of Sea Ray is......

Quick story- I owned a 2359 Trophy sportfisher, and did frequent trips around Puget Sound and along the Pacific Coast. I had a burr in my side- a guy that owned a 22' Grady White, and felt it was his duty to constantly remind me that my Trophy was just a "Bayliner in drag", "lipstick on a pig" etc.

We were fishing tuna out of Westport, and my fish boxes were jammed- I was done for the day. Mr GW had a few fish onboard, and was constantly whining on the radio about how sucky the day was.

I got on the VHF, called out to a friend that I was headed for the barn, and he acknowledged. I then called out "Grady, this is Pau Hana. My boat cost half of yours, and raises fish. Must be the Bayliner curse. OUT!"

Felt good

Tom,
Those DeFevers have OSB keels don't they?

manyboats said:

Tom,
Those DeFevers have OSB keels don't they?

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Eric

What the heck is an OFB keel. If its good I have one, if its bad it is on a AHEM SeaRay

Poach said:

I never met a Bayliner trasher who has actually owned one. Maybe they exist. I've not met one in 35+ years on large boats.

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We have never met but I owned a Bayliner Trophy at one time. My last big boat was a 54 Defever.

Apophyge said:

I suppose we can start on CHBs and other Taiwan boats. I like mine

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+1

sunchaser said:

OK, enough of this love fest. A question - are BL owners overly sensitive? Is there another brand out there that has the ready defenders jump to the fore like the leapers from the trenches at Verdun. If only certain politicians were so lucky with their posse. Geez this thread even has a group of FL retirees in muscle shirts looking to repel BL boarders.

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Tom, I don't think overly sensitive, but yes in general Bayliner owners, myself included can be defensive.

Think about it like this...

Everybody here on TF probably really likes boats. Everybody here probably really likes their boat, with all the good and bad included. Everybody here has thought allot about their boat, and probably has a significant amount of money in their boat. Large boats are a lifestyle choice for many of us.

So what if someone, and not just someone, but some people that knew very little or nothing about your boat sat behind their keyboard and told you that you made a stupid choice in a boat. That what you cared about, what you allocated allot of your time and money into was junk? What if they implied that their wealth of knowledge on the subject was common knowledge, and thus implied that you were the stupid one for not knowing?

That happens to Bayliner owners. Thank goodness it doesn't happen here. Honestly it used to happen allot more, but Bayliner owners are pretty good at pointing out the facts. I guarantee it doesn't happen on a dock, in person... But it happens on the internet.

So yes, a little sensitive, but not overly so.

Bayliner supporter

Well said......

Tom,
Oriented Stranded Board. Joke. My bad.

ksanders said:

Honestly it used to happen allot more, but Bayliner owners are pretty good at pointing out the facts. I guarantee it doesn't happen on a dock, in person... But it happens on the internet.

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Honestly the boats have done more than any owners to lessen the talk. They're stubborn, they stick around, they're survivors. It seems to me the older they get, the more impressive they become. They tend to catch that boat that was considered by many to be better when new or even when five years old. And they're everywhere. It's hard to get on the water and not see them.

I don't care what boat you have. -- Hope you're in love with it. -- I'm only concerned you handle the boat in a seaman-like manner, following protocol. Which my fellow TF SFBay/Delta boaters qualify.

FF said:

>all other components are "standard" marine stuff.<

That covers a lot of ground , a maceriator could be a Galley Maid or Obendorfer ay a grand a pop, or Jabsco for $100.

Big difference in living with and servicing the different tho >standard < mechanicals.

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Context my friend context ...

In the same class of boats the equipment is of the same/similar quality and quantity as LOA changes from 30 something to 40, and then to 40 something.

Okay, one might get an extra ice maker or TV, and extra length of wires and pex tubes, some extra planks and paneling for longer/bigger interior, etc.

The hull/deck on the other hand gains volume of material and corresponding labor with every feet of LOA.

This is what I have tried to convey ... the component costs within same boat class/brand, and not between broad range of boats.

I think the answer to which boats are well built can be found in the market place, the wheat will be separated from the chafe.
As far as judging another boat owners boat I go by the "Boater's Golden Rule" that if you can't say any thing nice about someone's boat then don't say anything.

sunchaser; God bless those who sooner or later sell their nice but now less expensive vessels to those of us who are not as affluent. [U said:

Why we are less affluent gets complicated but very deep down most of us know why. I sure do[/U].

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Man, the truth sometimes hurts doesn't it? Those damn millionaires should be banned from the boat world and we'd all be better off.

I'm on my 8th boat since 1995. I bought all of them from guys who have a hell of a lot more wealth than I do and at big discounted prices. I just wish there were more of them that buy on impulse and then put a great boat on the market at super reduced prices.

I'm with Codger2. God bless those with mega-bucks who buy big boats and sell them at a big discount so many of us with moderate bucks can afford to be boating. My iwfe and I are still stunned every now and agin when we realize we're the proud owners of a 50-foot yacht.

To stay on topic on this thread, here's to Bayliner for making boating more affordable for more people.

There's a lot of cars on the road. The rich drive a Mercedes the less well off might drive a Toyota. I see plenty of Toyotas on the freeway. The Toyota owners arrive safely in a reliable, comfortable vehicle, albeit without some of the Mercedes frills, for a LOT less money! The Mercedes owner might disparage Toyotas but there's a lot of Toyotas on the road and for good reason!

Jim Gandee said:

There's a lot of cars on the road. The rich drive a Mercedes the less well off might drive a Toyota. I see plenty of Toyotas on the freeway. The Toyota owners arrive safely in a reliable, comfortable vehicle, albeit without some of the Mercedes frills, for a LOT less money! The Mercedes owner might disparage Toyotas but there's a lot of Toyotas on the road and for good reason!

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And on the average the Mercedes will absolutely give more trouble and require more maintenance than the Toyota.

I knew an architect years ago. Met him while boating. He had one typical Sea Ray runabout and was one of the few I'd see out over the winter. However, car wise he had a Mercedes love even though he was the first to admit they required frequent repairs. Including his kids there were five drivers in his family. He owned six Mercedes, said it required having a spare. Oh, and he owned a restored VW thing. Normally he just drove it occasionally to the lake but one day I saw him driving it in town. Why? Two Mercedes in the shop.

So seems a bit silly on the surface, except the Mercedes were all diesel and he got hundreds of thousands of miles, was able to pass his to his kids. And then when he did decide to see one occasionally, it was amazing how well the held value. He never professed to drive them for financial reasons but he actually had evidence that they cost him over their lifetime no more to drive than any other car would have. Now I have no idea if those numbers would still work. And he did average about 60,000 miles a year.

I can also say he would never have disparaged a Toyota. Far more likely to disparage his Mercedes. Once I heard him teasing his wife and he said, "a lot like you. A pain in the a.. sometimes and high maintenance, but I love them anyway." She smiled and said, "and that remark will cost you the new sofa I've been wanting".

Jim Gandee said:

There's a lot of cars on the road. The rich drive a Mercedes the less well off might drive a Toyota. I see plenty of Toyotas on the freeway. The Toyota owners arrive safely in a reliable, comfortable vehicle, albeit without some of the Mercedes frills, for a LOT less money! The Mercedes owner might disparage Toyotas but there's a lot of Toyotas on the road and for good reason!

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Very much related: When's the last time you heard anybody disparage a Hyundai or Kia? They hold their values way better than the Mercedes. BUT if your a single guy on the hunt, only one of the above is a certified panty dropper. I know many the guy that after they were caught by a trophy wife bought a Hyundai and gave the fancy car to the wife to drive.
Also similar drives the new yacht market. Why do you think all those big Sunseekers, Azimuths, Pershings, and all those $700k center console triple and quadruple ouboard powered boats are totally dominating the market? Nothing logical about it, but logic takes a backseat to desire and hormones to those who still have enough of the latter to have the former.
And btw, none of the mentioned "retired bayliner owners in Florida in muscle shirts" (1) are retired. The oldest in the photo at 68 has a 1 year old and 2 yro babies with his twenty something new wife. So he's not retiring anytime soon. Nor is he buying a newer bigger boat
anymore. The rest of us are between 43 and 62. We have a simple philosophy-"don't start no _ _ _ _, and there won't be no _ _ _ _".

pilothouse king said:

Nothing logical about it

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There are many who would say there is nothing logical about boating at all. We each define our own logic.

There may be great logic in buying a center console powered with quad 7's, if the purpose is to pick up a bevy of girls. I can't say if it would work or not.

There is also a certain amount of logic to any purchase that brings one pleasure. You start restricting "logic" to only necessities and life changes tremendously.

What may be illogical for one may be quite logical for another even if the rest of us can't grasp the logic at all.

pilothouse king said:

I know I'm from the south but pretty sure I'm typing in English. Lol
I'm now going to go out in the woods and commune with the hogs.

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Would that be southern english?

Jim Gandee said:

There's a lot of cars on the road. The rich drive a Mercedes the less well off might drive a Toyota. I see plenty of Toyotas on the freeway. The Toyota owners arrive safely in a reliable, comfortable vehicle, albeit without some of the Mercedes frills, for a LOT less money! The Mercedes owner might disparage Toyotas but there's a lot of Toyotas on the road and for good reason!

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Yes for good reason. Now, altruism aside, the driving experience behind the wheel of a Panamera, Tesla or AMG 550 SEL is pretty nice in comparison to a Toyota. Even Toyota agrees, building cars that are fun to drive under a different badge.

BTW, the latest C&D really rakes the 2015 Tundra over the coals in a comparo to the big three.

BandB said:

And on the average the Mercedes will absolutely give more trouble and require more maintenance than the Toyota.
.

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I have had 5 Mercedes sedans in my life and have found the above to be true. Since I don't give a damn about status anymore, I drive a Toyota and my wife drives a Grand Cherokee. I get kidded quite often by my friends but then they know I really don't give a s--t about trying to impress anyone.