"The Ideal Passagemaker"

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Insequent said:
Could it be that the ones that had issues had active fins that were too small for the job. Undersize and overload anything and failures will occur
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I think that's the lesson leaned from the 2004 NAR. Most Nordhavn's since then are equipped with ABTs which in general are a beefier design, and failures at sea are rare. Everyone needs to set the NAR experience aside and ask someone who has been operating with stabilizers in the past 5 years. I don't think it's a stretch to say that every day there is a Nordhavn crossing an ocean somewhere. It's just not an issue.
 
Insequent said:
Good posts above. Important points are that the Nordy 2004 rally issues were ten years ago. That's a really long time in regard to engineering. It may have been what triggered the big improvements.

Nordy's are tall, top-heavy boats. Could it be that the ones that had issues had active fins that were too small for the job. Undersize and overload anything and failures will occur.

Also, Richard had a issues with his paravanes - bent pole for starters. But the killer is that they just don't work anywhere near as well. Perhaps not a complete waste of money, but definitely a poor second choice.
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And, ever since my wife saw "The Perfect Storm", she has refused to climb out on the poles anymore when something goes wrong. This forced the issue for us. Keeping the martini in the glass is a mere side benefit.
 
Insequent said:
Good posts above. Important points are that the Nordy 2004 rally issues were ten years ago. That's a really long time in regard to engineering. It may have been what triggered the big improvements.

Nordy's are tall, top-heavy boats. Could it be that the ones that had issues had active fins that were too small for the job. Undersize and overload anything and failures will occur.

Also, Richard had a issues with his paravanes - bent pole for starters. But the killer is that they just don't work anywhere near as well. Perhaps not a complete waste of money, but definitely a poor second choice.
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You bring a good point that design is important. The Nordy rally showed that design was the problem. I think the issues that Richard had were design also. But paravanes a poor second choice?
 
Larry M said:
You bring a good point that design is important. The Nordy rally showed that design was the problem. I think the issues that Richard had were design also. But paravanes a poor second choice?
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The electronics could certainly be an issue, but then again, so can the electronics controlling the typical common rail diesel. I believe that cooling of the hydraulic oil is also a potential issue, especially when the fins are working hard for extended periods of time. These are all design questions that needn't be an issue. In looking at my ABTs, I have a hard time coming up with a failure point outside the control box.
 
Larry M said:
You bring a good point that design is important. The Nordy rally showed that design was the problem. I think the issues that Richard had were design also. But paravanes a poor second choice?
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Ok, I should have said "distant" second choice rather than "poor". :blush: Fact is, active fins installed in the last few years are just brilliant.
 
Insequent;287370 Also said:
Ouch...
Both systems have thier plusses and minuses.

I have been to sea with both and honestly like both for different reasons.

If it simplicity of use active stabilizer's are the ticket

Active don't do much at anchor but passive can.

A friend I am assisting with the purchase of a passagemaker actually wants a passive stabilized boat not a active one..he wants a boat with less intensive systems.

Hollywood
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Were I to do another major refit I might well go with a Seakeeper gyro. Assuming I was able to find the room for it. They are good at anchor, although you need to run a genny for them. I might rate active fins as a close second behind the Seakeeper units although would like to get some first hand experience of gyro's first. Cost is broadly similar. Granted, for smaller pleasure trawlers both are a pretty big ticket item alongside other costs of ownership.

But for a Passagemaker (and this thread is 'ideal passagemaker'), the comfort is priceless. IIRC Idlewild had a pretty rough leg from South Africa to Perth. To the extent that cooking was quite difficult and limited to one attempt per day. Subsequently they fitted paravanes. Fair enough, the crew has to eat! And paravanes suited the whole philosophy of that boat. But my impression is that they just made things tolerable, not comfortable. High levels of comfort and no spilt drinks is another philosophy entirely, and one that is mandatory for some partners and crew to be willing to actually join you. That puts the comparatively high cost of active fins or gyros into practical perspective. Not saying that they can magically counter-act really rough conditions either....
 
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Wxx3 said:
Well said, again.
Dauntless' First Mate would certainly agree.

Early in my learning curve, I thought steel was superior, mostly because of ease of repairs. That's still sort of true, but if I had a 25 year old steel boat, I'd have to be on it at this moment, chipping away, instead of sitting in Queens eating Korean chicken wings and drinking soju and beer :)
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:thumb:
 
Hi Guys/Gals,,,

Just catching up with a fix of 'Trawler-Forum' :). Regarding the Stabilizer topic here, we have just made a Pacific Crossing of 2330 miles (San Diego - Oahu, Hawaii with our 2001 ABT (TRAC) active stabilizers running 24/7 for 13 days,,, with no issues what-so-ever.

Before this transit, I worried they may be a failure point. Julie and I took the TRAC course in San Fran before heading out, and I must say we were thoroughly impressed with the company, and their equipment.

From BC to Mexico to Hawaii, our vessel has travelled 7600 miles in our ownership, and 40,000 miles in the previous ownerships - all with the active stabs working their arses off, and they just eat-it-up. Personally, I'm sold, and I'm impressed.

Paradoxically, I love the simplicity of bilge keels & even lofty anti-roll tanks, but the TRAC stabs have proved their merit, caliber, & excellence. Just writing this down now (glass of red in hand), I realize that my ideal 'passage-maker' would indeed employ ABT active stabs. [they also help keep the main engine loaded a bit :socool:]
 
The ideal passagemaker is many things to many people. If cost is not a concern, then there are plenty of options out there.

Being somewhat of a tightwad, and traditionalist, I came across this ad today, and thought - this is a lot of bang for the buck. Appears to be well engineered and beautifully finished.
Sails & paravanes for stabilization.

Used 50 Ft Ketch Rigged Long Range Trawler Yacht for Sale | Boats For Sale | Yachthub
 
Beautiful boat. The broker often advertises interesting high quality salty boats, not fashionable newer ones. Viewed broadly it has look of a converted trawler, but up close appears to be anything but, and to have been purpose built, perhaps using a tried and true trawler hull design. Tempting you Auscan?
 
BruceK said:
Beautiful boat. The broker often advertises interesting high quality salty boats, not fashionable newer ones. Viewed broadly it has look of a converted trawler, but up close appears to be anything but, and to have been purpose built, perhaps using a tried and true trawler hull design. Tempting you Auscan?
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Bruce,
It certainly does tempt me. The only fault I can see is that all berths are singles.

A couple could almost sleep in that engine room with the gorgeous Gardner - but I'm not sure my wife would feel the love in the threesome as much as me.

Other than that, she's hard to fault.
 
Yep a good boat. originally built for David Beer a truly well traveled mariner. He has a glass boat these days. He is also a very good friend of Jim Stewart. I recently posted a couple of photos of Jim's boat Storm Boy 11 and David's boat but can't remember where.
Auscan you would love that boat, I am sure there is a double there somewhere.
 
AusCan said:
...A couple could almost sleep in that engine room with the gorgeous Gardner - but I'm not sure my wife would feel the love in the threesome as much as me.
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Sleeping with the Gardener worked for for Lady Chatterley.:nonono:
 
Caution! That boat only has a single engine. :eek:
 
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She's got nice rocker and a real nice and efficient looking run aft but a bit slab sided. Neville can hardly do wrong by my way of thinking.
At 5.5 hp per ton she's almost the same as My Willard.

What's this about passagemakers? I thought this was a trawler forum.
 
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Dreams are free :D

Actually the best deal is a $1.00 lottery ticket.

A Dollar a Dream ,

(of course with any math its a looser) but cheap enough for a buck because it Could come true!
 
FF that's the worst deal when you consider the odds.

Only fools buy lottery tickets.
Let's see .. how many can I insult?
I have never bought a lottery ticket.
 
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