Stupid Question - How to make fast an all chain rode?

Ok, seems like this is a silly question - but I've never had a boat with an all chain rode (this is my 8th boat).
The Marine Trader 43 I just bought has an all chain rode on its Bruce anchor - how would I make this fast when anchoring? Do I just leave it on the gypsy on the windlass? Do I take a few turns around the samson post?
I checked Chapman's - no answer there.

Use a nylon rope, small enough dia to stretch a bit, snubber. If you Google "anchor snubber" you'll find LOTS of information on them, there are many variations. Sorry there isn't one shown on my avatar pic*which was taken on a quick lunch stop.
Steve W.

-- Edited by Steve on Saturday 26th of February 2011 08:33:57 AM

Use two rope snubbers, one from each side to connect ( via grab hooks or other metal piece) *to the same point on the chain. Allow the chain to droop so the snubbers take the load. Proper snubbers will have eyes on the end so they don't wear out as the boat pulls against them. As Steve says, lots of snubber info lurks on the internet.

For a 43' boat, a 1/2" 3 strand snubber 40' long is about right.* Delfin weighs 65 tons and I use 5/8" by way of comparison.* As said by Steve, you want it to stretch.* Attach it with a shackle to the chain, or using a hook as shown below.* The advantage of the shackle is that it never falls off when lowering, which happens less than you would think with a hook, but does happen.* You can use a double bridle as Tom suggests, although if you have an anchor roller (looks like you do) with a free roller, you can certainly use a single line run over that roller and cleated off, and that is less of a chafing problem.

Snubbers do a couple of things.* First, they provide a shock load for the chain and windlass since nylon 3 strand will stretch 40% before breaking.* Second, they quiet things down at anchor since you hear the clunking of the chain less.

If you're planning on anchoring in hurricanes, then you'll also want a snubber that is as strong as the chain that can be cleated off to a strong point.* The issue is always protecting the windlass, since it generally is not designed to take the breaking strength of the chain as a shock load, which is what you get when the chain catenary is zero in a hard blow.

By the way, I don't think you can ask a stupid question about boats.....







-- Edited by Delfin on Saturday 26th of February 2011 10:04:01 AM

"Use two rope snubbers, one from each side to connect "

Or just one over the anchor roller.

I used to use 2 but changed to one which seems just as effective. If the wind*started *honking I might add a second, but haven't been there yet.

7tiger7 wrote:


The Marine Trader 43 I just bought has an all chain rode on its Bruce anchor - how would I make this fast when anchoring?

Click to expand...

You will want to use a snubber as other posters have described.* Some people use a single snubber line with some sort of chain grabber on the end.* You can use a basic chain hook but there are purpose-built devices that people have come up with that they claim do a better job that a chain hook.* Sort of a better mousetrap if you will

Other people, like us, use a pair of snubbers in a V-arrangement.* Instead of a hook we use a grabber plate, for want of a better term, which is a heavy stainless square plate with* holes in two corners and a slot in the side between the corners with the holes.* The snubber lines are fastened to shackles in the two holes and a link of the chain goes down into the slot.

The snubber is important for several reasons.* If it's long enough it puts a degree of shock absorbing into the anchor setup that the chain, of course, can't provide should the pull on the anchor become enough to remove most of the catenary in the rode.* A snubber takes the load of the boat against the anchor off the pulpit and the windlass mounting hardware and internal gears.* And by slacking off on the rode between the windlass and the chain hook or grabber, the chain will not move around in the bow roller as the boat shifts, which makes a noise that can heard all through the boat and will wake everyone up at 3:00 am.

I suggest to learn just about everything you need to know about anchoring that you get hold of a book called "The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring," by Earl Hinz.* It's outstanding and in our opinion should be part of every boat's library.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 26th of February 2011 01:42:33 PM

Hurricanes and *Super Storms.
During Hurricanes ,over the many years i have kept all of my boats *on free swinging moorings. meaning boat free to swing in a blow. but that is me.


Many boat owners *prefer to find a hurricane hole or go on the hard, that is *a good choice.


If *you have a very secure samson post *then you can/ may ride it out .


BUT !


i can almost guarantee *that your chain will go bar taught like a metal rod ,by all means use *several snubbers. Taught chain on deck may rip deck fitting out.


Where is this all going.


There are many boats out there having undersized deck hardware which works well for mooring in a slip ,However your boat is at risk having such cleats which may be undersized for hurricane conditions.


Here is what we do , we run very heavy lines *down and around outboard the transom and back to the bow, we attach all separate lines to bow *and spring cleats*also *, we use lots of chafe gear also and we use every line we have, because it does not do any body any good to keep *docking line in *the locker.


Ok *! I do over kill. *Because if i don't make every possible attempt *to secure my boat, and this takes time, the insurance man will *write this word on his report " Negligence"


Last word
We never stay on a boat in a hurricane.
We are the best at what we do. hi ! y'all.


Donald & Mavis

SOMERS wrote:Here is what we do , we run very heavy lines *down and around outboard the transom and back to the bow, we attach all separate lines to bow *and spring cleats*also *, we use lots of chafe gear also and we use every line we have...

Click to expand...

OR...... you could do what we do which is much easier and far more foolproof and that is to live somewhere where there aren't any hurricanes

*

I know you asked Delfin, but as another data point for you, we always use a snubber even if we are going to be anchored somewhere for a short time in calm conditions. It's one of those things we don't want to start making exceptions to. If we always do it that way, we will always be set up that way and so will have no surprises if conditions change. That's our philosophy, other people view it differently.

Hello *Marin.Its your best friend from Bermuda.

We have no choice but but to ride out the weather here to day.
which *is *:-


Calm or may be *5 kts from the SE.
mixture *of sun and clouds
A few ripples on the water.
68 *degrees
Humidity, yesterday 46 % *lowest in history.


Mavis , where did you put my " T " *shirt. *sun screen and shades?


I helped my nephew rig his boat moorings *Bridal and marker Buoy this morning.


We went on our *Small Meager yacht to put on a steering wheel cover that Mavis made.


To all you guys out there get you own Mavis.


" From Bermuda with love ".


Regards
Donald & Mavis
Mystic knights of the sea






















-- Edited by SOMERS on Saturday 26th of February 2011 03:21:35 PM

-- Edited by SOMERS on Saturday 26th of February 2011 03:30:23 PM

SOMERS wrote:
We have no choice but but to ride out the weather here to day.
which *is *:-


Calm or may be *5 kts from the SE.
mixture *of sun and clouds
A few ripples on the water.
68 *degrees
Humidity, yesterday 46 % *lowest in history.

Click to expand...

Sounds rough but I'm sure you'll survive.* Here the Northern Waters forecast is

Today
S wind 15 to 25 kt...rising to 20 to 30 kt late. Wind waves 2 to 4 ft building to 3 to 5 ft. Chance of rain and snow.

Tonight
S wind 20 to 30 kt...becoming SW 15 to 25 kt after midnight. Wind waves 3 to 5 ft. Rain and snow.

Temperature right now at home is 31.6 degrees.* Tomorrow we're supposed to get a heat wave with daytime temperatures in the low 40s.* Two nights ago the temperature in Bellingham was 2 degrees.* We don't live in Bellingham but the boat does.* Hope it snuggled up with the boat in the next slip.

*

Old Stone wrote:

Delfin - Have to ask - Do you use a snubbber set up every time you anchor? All these answers make perfect sense, just wondering (about that) though.

Click to expand...

Hi Carl, yes we do use it each time.* The main reason is that it quiets the chain down, which telegraphs noise as you drift around on the hook.* By the way, nice looking interior on the 'guest cottage.'* What wood?* Check out Jatoba.

*

Personally I usa a single snubber (nylon 3 strand) over the bow roller.
When you are using a snubber always ensure you have enough chain out for any conditions.
The last thing you want to bev doing if the wind really gets up is trying to retrive the chain hook and let out more chain and then reattach the snubber.
You would most likely lose all the chain and come to the bitter end...disaster.

One other thing if you have a sampson post attach the snubber to that, using deck cleats (unless you are completely sure they are very well fastened) is a recipe
for failure.
Benn

Tidahapah wrote:

You would most likely lose all the chain and come to the bitter end...disaster.

Click to expand...

This statement brings up a very important point. The bitter end of your rode MUST be secured to the boat inside the chain locker, or you will likely come to a "bitter end". It should never be left loose.

Carey wrote:

The bitter end of your rode MUST be secured to the boat inside the chain locker, or you will likely come to a "bitter end". It should never be left loose.

Click to expand...

With one caveat.* The bitter end should not be loose, but always be capable of casting off in a heartbeat with a sharp knife.* Better to lose the rode than the boat.

*

Delfin wrote:


Carey wrote:

The bitter end of your rode MUST be secured to the boat inside the chain locker, or you will likely come to a "bitter end". It should never be left loose.

Click to expand...

With one caveat.* The bitter end should not be loose, but always be capable of casting off in a heartbeat with a sharp knife.* Better to lose the rode than the boat.

*

If you have all chain, attach a length of line to the chain bitter end, then to a hard point somewhere in the anchor locker.* Make it long enough so that the line will be exposed on the foredeck, and can be cut in an emergency.*

Jay N wrote:Delfin wrote:Carey wrote:

The bitter end of your rode MUST be secured to the boat inside the chain locker, or you will likely come to a "bitter end". It should never be left loose.

Click to expand...

With one caveat.* The bitter end should not be loose, but always be capable of casting off in a heartbeat with a sharp knife.* Better to lose the rode than the boat.

*
If you have all chain, attach a length of line to the chain bitter end, then to a hard point somewhere in the anchor locker.* Make it long enough so that the line will be exposed on the foredeck, and can be cut in an emergency.*
*
If you have all chain, attach a length of line to the chain bitter end, then to a hard point somewhere in the anchor locker.* Make it long enough so that the line will be exposed on the foredeck, and can be cut in an emergency.*



**********************


Absolutely!

**********************


-- Edited by Carey on Saturday 26th of February 2011 06:54:52 PM

Yes Sir,
My bitter end is attached to the eye in the bottom of the chain locker with approx 12 ft of 1/2 nylon rode.
Strong enough to let it run out and not break straight away and small enough to cut with a sharp knife quickly.

Benn

The diagram shown is incomplete , as the windlass is taking the load after the line stretches .

1/2" Chain, 5 9/16"l 3 7/16"w 1/4"h, Chain Stoppers Deluxe Heavy Duty ...
www.westmarine.com/1/3/lewmar-chain-stoppers



A chain stopper is used to take the load , never the windlass , that's for lifting the ground gear .

Usually the best are cast bronze and bolted in very securely , enough to hang the boat by with a 2G loading is about right.

The cheapo stamped , bent SS are pretty , but,,,,,

All good info here. One thing I have been debating on our trawler for a snubber....Our windlass has a cleat built into the top of the body (pic attached). It's designed to be the cleat for the snubber. I'be been debating whether to snub to that one or over to one of the cleats @ the foredeck.

Woodsong, I guess it depends on the backing of the cleat vs. the windlass.* Usually the windlass is bolted and backed to provide a margin of strength when lifting to the limit of the windlass.* That can be a great deal weaker than a cleat, which should be backed to withstand shock loading, so my instinct would be not to use the cleat on the windlass.

Use a single SS shackle fastened to the rode where it will ride at about the water line when deployed. The shackle is attached to the loop of a 25' dock line and the other end cleated at the sampson post. When de[ployed I like to leave a little slack in the chain rode to allow the nylon bridle to act as a shock absorber.

Mike:

Thanks for the link.

Here's what I use. The plate is a chain grabber from West Marine.

"Could someone attach a picture?"

Here is a design I built which acccomplishes both chain and mooring buoys.* The chain hook is in place when anchoring, and removed and the extension line added when mooring.* You could use the chain hook or chain grabber as you prefer.*

Mike,
Thanks for the link. It does beg the question- why on earth did they put that giant cleat atop the body of the windlass if you couldn't attach a snubber to it?

Woodsong wrote:

Mike,
Thanks for the link. It does beg the question- why on earth did they put that giant cleat atop the body of the windlass if you couldn't attach a snubber to it?

Click to expand...

Marketing maybe because it looks good?*

*

Keith wrote:

Here's what I use. The plate is a chain grabber from West Marine.

Click to expand...

Keith-* That is exactly the same setup I have been using the past twenty years.* Unfortunately West marine no longer sells the Chain Gripper Plate in your photo.* Sea-Dog makes one.* You can get it here:* http://www.sailboatstuff.com/dk_misc.html

Few questions...
1 - does my samson post seem to have larger bolts through the deck? Not sure how they are backed below deck, but the 4 bolts seem a little undersized to hold the samson post in a strong blow.

2- Why is my bowsprit weeping rust? Do I have an iron bowsprit?

3 - What should I use those eyebolts for, which are on either side of my windlass?

Sorry for the weird questions, I just bought the boat, and it's 4 hours away in Maine, so I haven't spent much time poking around in detail.

Tiger, you need to answer the question of backing on the samson's post to know whether it is adequate or not.* If properly backed, it might be fine.

It kind of looks like the bowsprit on which the windlass is mounted is bolted onto the deck.* It's rusting because it's mild steel, so I wonder how much work it would be to unbolt it, along with the windlass and have it powder coated to eliminate that problem, at least for a few years.*

I'm clueless on the eyebolts.* It could be the attachment point for snubbers via snap shackles for the dual rodes you are apparently set up for.* Or possibly a kick ass launching point for a water balloon slingshot array.* Forensic marine maintenance - you got to love it...