Whats wrong with Bayliners?

I know I will get a lot of ____ for even posting this question..but are Bayliners that bad...For a boat to go cruising in the San Juans, Gulf Islands of British Columbia, or maybe even Alaska I don't see why they are held in such low regard. There are some things that I like about them, no teak outside, nice lines ( looking at the 38 foot), Hino diesels which don't seem to be a bad motor... PRICE....I could spend half the cost of a more popular trawler, buy a Bayliner and have the extra money to spend cruising for a few years......
It seems to me that many first time boat buyers buy Bayliners and that maybe Bayliners reputations suffers more from their owner's then from the quality (or lack of quality) in the boats themselves

p.s. lets be nice when answering this question.....
thanks

Actually real boaters will say some pretty good things about Bayliner Motor Yachts...t's the uneducated dockhangers that proliferate the myth.


If you ask for near absolutes...sure really experienced guys don't have a lot of good to say about any production boat...too many compromises...but that discussion can get to the point of silly too.

Small bayliners of yesteryear were pretty bad..but so were most other boats....just because you are th low price point doesn't mean a thing...all the time.

Search the word and you will find numerous supporters of Bayliners and those that aren't either are trying to compare them to boats hardly any compare to, especially cost not really performance or durability.

Some people I know have bought them...coulda afforded Flemmings but know they would never used them enough to justify the cost. And they are sharp, knowledgeable, experienced boaters....with the last one having an engineering background as if that really matters but to some it may.

I think that the big Bayliners are great for your part of the world...and you do live in the Bayliner patch so there should be several to pick from.

Several of my friends have them and they say good things.

One of our Dock neighbors has a Bayliner pilot house 57 footer he has had it about 6 months I think paid a little over 300 k for it and it seems like a lot of boat for the price .

We took a few hour cruise on it a couple months ago and it seemed like a good performing boat

This is discussed frequently, if not without bias, on the Bayliner Owner's Club forum.

I can only add my own experience. My previous boat was a Bayliner. As a working stiff, I only had about 3 weeks out of the year, and frequent long weekends, available for cruising. But that's what we did every year for 10 years.

The boat performed well above my expectations the whole time. We'd bought it at a boat show; the floor model so to speak. It was a 29' express cruiser. It had the Clorox-bottle "Euro" design, and was mass-produced. Not my style at all.

But once we stepped aboard, we knew it was the boat we'd been looking for. It had everything we'd seen in much larger and more expensive boats, and the interior layout was better. Mechanically and structurally it was solid. The engine was easy to access. I could go on, but suffice it to say I'm still singing its praises.

And, for the record, that little boat has been from Nova Scotia to New Jersey, to half-way through the Erie Canal, and just about everywhere in between. We've been through squalls and storms, and more than our share of fog. We've anchored, moored and slipped it in some fantastic locations, some of which my present boat would never be able to get into.

As another post stated, back 20 plus years when Bayliner came out with the extremely low price point line of boat-motor-trailer package many were snapped up, good number of "new" owners never knew anything about boats or maintenance, not to say it was a great boat, it was cheap after-all. Fast forward, dock neighbor bought Bayliner built out in West Coast and I was very impressed at the quality and design.
Like anything you need to know what you are buying and match what you are doing, no sense having a Nordhavn if you only plan on cruising inter-coastal, although you will look good at the dock!

Read Dave Pascoe reviews.

Prior to this boat, I owned a 1989 3288 Bayliner "Motoryacht" It was an absolutely reliable boat, all systems were Mercruiser, cruise air, perko sea strainers, Kohler genny, ETC. The only draw back was she was a little stern heavy and tended to throw a larger wake but at displacement speeds it was fine and when up on plane trimmed out she was fine. I owned it for 7 years and never had any major issues just routine upkeep. A lot of space for a 32 foot boat and everything was fairly easy to access when working on things. Had I not wanted a larger boat to live-aboard I would have still owned her as she was paid for.

One other thing, go to Bayliner Owners Club. It is the most extensive website of any boat brand. The people are all nice and more than willing to answer any questions you have.

AS said earlier people that had no experience with them talked crap but as a kick in the pants, I had towed more than one other brand name boats but I myself was never left stranded.

Yes, I hold my Bayliner in low regard, just like I've held the other four ocean going Bayliners we've owned in low regard.

MV Lisas Way - Fulfilling our cruising dreams!

Oh yes and forgot to say my neighbors sure is quite while cruising at trawler speed

I posted this in another thread but in case the original poster didn't see it, FWIW....

We have met several couples over the years who have Bayliners and have done the Inside Passage up and back, some several times. I would venture to say there are a lot more Bayliner owners who have done the Passage than Nordhavn owners.

Bayliners suffer from a reputation that stems partly from their cheap, entry-level trailer boats. The other source of Bayliner myths has to do with owners, not the boats.

Bayliner very successfully figured out how to make boats that were priced less than many other production cruising boats of the same size and purpose. And when you price something lower than the competition, you tend to get more people buying it. People who couldn't afford a Grand Banks, for example, could afford a similar-size Bayliner.

So you had people getting into a relatively large cruising boat who perhaps didn't really have the interest in all the details of cruising that someone willing to plunk down the price of a Grand Banks had. They just wanted to get out on the water with their friends and families and have a rousing good time.

So the uninteresting (to them) things like the Colregs and the details of proper navigation and radio use and the effect of their wakes on other boats were not things they paid much attention to. To them, the boat was all about having a good time.

When you encounter boaters who are inconsiderate, uneducated in boat operations, unskilled, careless or all four you also notice the boat they are using. And when it seems there are a lot of these less-than-ideal boaters driving Bayliners, the annoyance one feels upon encountering them gets transferred to the boat make. So..... Bayliners must be crappy boats because they are always driven by crappy boaters, right?

Sure, Bayliner was able to price their boats very competitively by using not the most expensive hardware and using production techniques more tailored to assembly-line production than those used by Grand Banks or Fleming or Krogen.

But the fact remains that in the hands of a competent, courteous boater, a Bayliner cruiser is no less effective at providing great value and experiences to its owner than a Grand Banks, Fleming, or Nordhavn.

Forced into a choice, I would take a well-looked after Bayliner cruiser over a similar size, older Taiwan trawler like a CHB with uncertain care and even more uncertain construction quality, knowing what I know about the manufacturing processes used in Taiwan in the 70s and 80s.

I remember when I started shopping for a boat in the mid 30 foot range the Bayliner popped up. I didn't have many in my area and was flooded with Marine Traders, Albins, and Mainships so I naturally shifted towards what was easily available. I wish I would have taken a trip to look at the Bayliner 38' because I've read a lot of good inforamation about their larger boats being good quality. I know nothing about parts availability on Hino engines but anything by Toyota rocks. Just would want to know if I have to bribe someone in Japan to make a manifold for it. The layout looks pretty open (which is what I like about my Mainship), considered a necessity on smaller footprint liveaboards. I wouldn't think twice about giving it a good look. My only concern would be the bad voodoo the name comes with. They appear to be slightly below the resale curve price wise but I don't think that is a problem if you score it low to begin with...it's all relative. The Mainship doesn't exactly get big bucks but I know it retains value well so I could care less.

For what it's worth, I would prefer to buy a "lightly" used GB over a brand new Bayliner. Price should be similar if you take your time looking around.

West said:

For what it's worth, I would prefer to buy a "lightly" used GB over a brand new Bayliner. Price should be similar if you take your time looking around.

Click to expand...

Please post some links so I can learn something new....

....but generally in all my years of boating and living aboard after shopping for boats...I would say that statement isn't even close.


What has everyone else encountered????

psneeld said:

Please post some links so I can learn something new....

Click to expand...

Some folks like 100% shiny plastic, but I'm in the wood camp ... sorry.

Haven't read the whole thread but this issue is about opinion ... not fact unless it's exposed as such.

There are a number of boats that most talk about with great respect. Most here know exactly what boats they are. And there are boats held in low reguard. Both are over stated IMO. These boats that everybody talks about w great respect robably aren't as great as they are perceived.

As to the bottom of the barrel most think it's common knowledge that Bayliners are bad so they feel it's ok to say so. However one needs to be a bit careful about verbally trashing the boats that are so very common but not totally on the bottom. You might stick your foot in your mouth in more ways than one. First you run the risk of being wrong and making a fool of yourself and secondly you may likely be insulting sombody you know or about to get to know real fast. Whereas it just rolls off the Bayliner owner.

Interesting though from my perspective is that nobody ever says what it is that's so bad about Bayliners. No specifics. Of course that would lead any intelligent and objective person to think Bayliners were probably or at least may be good boats. When someone needs to know and diggs up the specifics I wonder what they find? I have never needed to know. But until I do know I'm going to consider Bayliner boats good every day boats.

However one needs to consider that mass produced products have built in advantages and disadvantages just because they are mass produced. A one-off lobsterboat yacht built by a small yard in Maine will pay considerably more for much of the materials used and thus have a higher price. Buyers seeing the low price of mass produced boat like Bayliner may think the Bayliner is a cheap boat made haphazardly w cheap materials. The opposite may be true. But to sell more boats by keeping the price low corners may be cut and inferior materials and design may be used.

The Bayliner boat probably does/did both. Corners are probably cut to save money and in some places better materials may be used. So reality is probably a wash and the Bayliner is probably an average boat in many ways, a better boat in some ways and an inferior boa in some ways.

But who will know until opinions and dock talk are replaced w facts and specifics.

A Grand Banks, particularly the ones from about the mid-90s back, are relatively high maintenance boats, particularly when it comes to the exterior. Unless, of course, one keeps it in a boathouse which in this neck of the woods is a $30,000 to $100,000 proposition depending on the size of the boat and the condition of the boathouse.

Some GB owners disagree, but then you often find out they hire their maintenance out, keep it in a boathouse, or have it in a charter fleet where maintenance is part of their charter contract.

A Bayliner has no external teak, and no teak decking (that I'm aware of, anyway). So right off the bat it's a boat that does not require days of somebody's time every other year or so (depending on the climate) to maintain the outside of the boat.

For me, the choice has more to do with aesthetics and cofiguration. Some people like the look and layout of a Bayliner, some don't. The same can be said of Grand Banks, or any production boat make.

If there is any difference I would say it's in which boat holds up the best under neglect or even abuse. The better built a boat is, the better it will hold up under less than ideal care.

West said:

For what it's worth, I would prefer to buy a "lightly" used GB over a brand new Bayliner. Price should be similar if you take your time looking around.

Click to expand...

I would want to know what GB and what Bayliner. Then the answer would probably be obvious and have nothing to do w brand name or build quality. But then I'd need to know about build quality and would find out .... not on TF or BSing w other boaters. Or I'd take my chances and suffer the consequences of Bayliner or Grand Banks ownership. Both routes would probably have happy endings until one needed to sell and move on.

manyboats said:

I would want to know what GB and what Bayliner. Then the answer would probably be obvious and have nothing to do w brand name or build quality. But then I'd need to know about build quality and would find out .... not on TF or BSing w other boaters. Or I'd take my chances and suffer the consequences of Bayliner or Grand Banks ownership. Both routes would probably have happy endings until one needed to sell and move on.

Click to expand...

It's personal preference Eric.
I have no love for gleaming shiny plastic throughout the interior, accented with bright coloured synthetic seating areas. This wouldn't go well with how I spend my time on a week long boating excursion.

But to answer the OP's question, NO there is nothing wrong with Bayliner.

West,
I thought it was an "Bayliners are cheaply built boats" not a "I like this style not that".

I like you would then find the choice hugely simple.

But re the OP there are no doubt downsides or things wrong w Bayliners ..... as w any boat. How may or how bad I've never seen enough specifics to know. I can tell you about Willard's and the Albin 25 as I've owned them over time and had much communication w other owners. Bayliners not so.

For those that don't know .. there's a long thread in the past about this subject.

Hi Everyone,
Thank you all for your input...I have felt that there is nothing wrong with a Bayliner but I wanted to get other peoples thoughts. I have no problem asking what might consider a "dumb question"...It's not dumb to me. Been around boats for 35 years, sailed more then a few oceans, now looking at powerboats....

bcarli said:

I know I will get a lot of ____ for even posting this question..but are Bayliners that bad

Click to expand...

Not asked but the real questions as I see it are:
As compared to what?
What budget and price range?
Old, new or middle aged?

First off, of course a Bayliner can happily cruise in the PNW. They were designed for that purpose and with lots of satisfied users.

But the question cannot be legitimately answered unless comparing to similar designs and price ranges such as Carver, SeaRay or Cruisers. I like the lower helm station much better on the Bayliners than the other three but the Carver fly bridge seems better laid out. ER access on all is about the same. Mechanical layouts seem similar with access to some areas equally challenged. In the PNW the selection of Bayliners is much better as is price point. Bayliner seems to have done a better job of engine selection as compared to SeaRay. Beyond these very general musings, a detailed look at each vessel being considered is required to see if the owners kept up with maintenance and upgrades - all important when considering older vessels.

But to compare a light planing vessel like a Bayliner to a displacement vessel like a Nordhavn, Krogen or DeFever is difficult at best. Nor can a more expensive build SD vessel like a Fleming or GB be realistically compared to Bayliner - they are different boats for a different audience.

A trip to the the upcoming Seattle Boat Show may help answer your questions. what kind of vessels have you had in the past?

FF said:

Read Dave Pascoe reviews.

Click to expand...

Well, problem is that David Pascoe never met a boat he liked. He wrote an essay on blisters on Carvers a long time ago and essentially pronounced them junk. Every time somebody asks about Carver quality now somebody posts a link to that Pascoe article - and yet my 1983 32-footer has zero blisters and a rock solid hull and deck to this day, and there are lots and lots of those 3207's and others still going strong after all these years. Oh, and we own a Bayliner runabout too - paid peanuts for it and it's still looking and running well. You can always find somebody somewhere who will say your boat is junk.

bcarli said:

I know I will get a lot of ____ for even posting this question..but are Bayliners that bad...For a boat to go cruising in the San Juans, Gulf Islands of British Columbia, or maybe even Alaska I don't see why they are held in such low regard. There are some things that I like about them, no teak outside, nice lines ( looking at the 38 foot), Hino diesels which don't seem to be a bad motor... PRICE....I could spend half the cost of a more popular trawler, buy a Bayliner and have the extra money to spend cruising for a few years......
It seems to me that many first time boat buyers buy Bayliners and that maybe Bayliners reputations suffers more from their owner's then from the quality (or lack of quality) in the boats themselves

p.s. lets be nice when answering this question.....
thanks

Click to expand...

To answer your subject question, nothing. Take your boat on adventures and have fun. Nobody is holding a gun to our heads and forcing us to enjoy boating. When the fun stops, sell your boat and get into something else. It's that simple.

I had an old 2452 Bayliner that had a hull sprayed out lof a.shotgun. It did the job well for its price range. These days, I wouldn't hesitate to move into a modern Bayljner. They have great layouts, great usage of space, good ideas and are good overall values IMHO. They are not your Father's Bayliner, not that there was anything wrong with the. Bayliner fun per dollar ratio of old.

Rumors of Bayliner quality or lack thereof don't come out of thin air. The day they nameplated 'Bayliner' on cheap entry level runabouts is the day their reputation suffered. That was their choice. They have put more people on the water than any other boat builder I can think of. That is to their credit and their business model has endured when many boat builders have fallen to the wayside. But to this day if I tell my boat buddies that I'm liking a bayliner 45 or 48 they will roll their eyes. Their first thought is the cheap runabouts. That may be unfair but it is a market perception that obviously exists. Bayliners fault. Should have renamed their entry level boats. I don't think their motor yachts deserve the stigma.

I don't know. We have a 1995 19' Capri and it doesn't feel like a junky boat to me. It won't survive a nuclear war but it's a decent boat. Maybe I missed the junk years or junk models. I agree with some of the other posters. I think a good deal of the Bayliner-is-junk attitude comes from a combination of snobbery and the fact that a lot of Bayliner owners are indeed novices or casual boaters who can't or don't want to maintain their boats well or beat them like rented mules.

Bayliners, do not use a well known boat architect to design their boats, they are designed by an in-house committee.

bcarli said:

I know I will get a lot of ____ for even posting this question..but are Bayliners that bad...For a boat to go cruising in the San Juans, Gulf Islands of British Columbia, or maybe even Alaska I don't see why they are held in such low regard. There are some things that I like about them, no teak outside, nice lines ( looking at the 38 foot), Hino diesels which don't seem to be a bad motor... PRICE....I could spend half the cost of a more popular trawler, buy a Bayliner and have the extra money to spend cruising for a few years......
It seems to me that many first time boat buyers buy Bayliners and that maybe Bayliners reputations suffers more from their owner's then from the quality (or lack of quality) in the boats themselves

p.s. lets be nice when answering this question.....
thanks

Click to expand...

a freind of mine had one a 38 ft and it was great it was one of the best live aboard boats around the lay out was greatit it had electric heat, ac, and a heating sys from the engines when you were running and hinos engines. the only proplen he had was the hirth trannys not so good,we changed them over to velvet drive. he made many trips all over the bahamas

ancora said:

Bayliners, do not use a well known boat architect to design their boats, they are designed by an in-house committee.

Click to expand...

Versus what other major production yacht builders other than Hatteras? And that was all done before Bayliner Motoryachts came into existence. Or do you prefer a name designer who's boat designs were built in Taiwan by dozens of different "yards" who just rolled the moulds between them with the resulting mysteries of the builds? Bayliner was extremely high tech and bought engines and components by the tens of thousands therefore paid less than other builders, resulting in them being able to sell them for less than their competition. It's truly that simple.
When you talk major American builders, many such as Columbia, Chris Craft, and even smaller outfits like Tollycraft and Pearson had boats from small to large and of course the small boats cost less than the top of the line larger ones. Its why I use General Motors as an analogy to the Bayliners-as they built econo boxes and also Cadillacs and Corvettes. You get what you pay for, but to diss the top of the line because of rumors of the quality build of the smallest-makes one look like a pendaeo!
If the poster really lives in Friday Harbor then look out the frigging window, and go talk to the owners.
I like the big Bayliners because they always pass surveys, something that many so called quality boats frequently flunk in expensive spectacular ways. I was the east coast dealer for Lien Hwa yachts (Little Harbor, Hartman Palmer, McKinna, some Presidents, some big Marine Traders, etc)once upon a time, and that yard IS the "GM of Taiwan" and at least made attempts at quality control, but the British Surveyor on staff would report that the workers would watch him like a hawk, and many times he surprised them coming out of the bathroom quicker than they expected, and caught them switching out cheaper materials for what was ordered.