Seacocks - When to Close Them

The reality of it is most boats don't have walk-in engine rooms (but we'd like them) or sea chests. Most of us have seacocks scattered throughout the boat with cramped ER space. That's the way it is. So we balance our risks with ability to service what we have.

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mbevins said:

The reality of it is most boats don't have walk-in engine rooms (but we'd like them) or sea chests. Most of us have seacocks scattered throughout the boat with cramped ER space. That's the way it is. So we balance our risks with ability to service what we have.

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This brings up an interesting part of the subject. What level of difficulty to access is acceptable? If they are too difficult to easily reach for normal use would they be accessible in an emergency?

People are more likely to be inconvenienced in an emergency than day to day.

This like so many threads ....I think the topic can be broken down into liveaboards, local to boat and distant to boat. Well....sorta....also throw in the ease of access and just plain human nature for exceptions.

But people who see their boats more are more likely to have a higher tolerance if their boat is in good shape.

I've investigated several sinkings and flooding events. In my area the causes rank as follows:

1. Dripless shaft seal failures. Typically plastic internal bushing seizes to shaft, spins seal housing and rips hose to shaft log. Or it is leaking badly due to wear, and pump fails or shore power fails.

2. Leaky std bronze packing, combined with pump failure or loss of shore power and flat batts.

3. Bilge pump discharges with through hull very close to water line, and no vented loop. Unusual trim or whatever combined with flat batts, water back flows through pump.

4. Heavy rain or hurricane combined with pump failure/flat batts.

5. Sinking "on the hill". Rain and no pumps, boat on blocks slowly floods.

Never seen a hose come off or burst while boat is on the dock. Have seen hoses fail on running engines, that's a different issue.

Closing sea cocks would have saved none of the above.

mbevins said:

The reality of it is most boats don't have walk-in engine rooms (but we'd like them) or sea chests.

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I agree. But rather than crawl-in engine rooms, I prefer sit-ins.

I leave all mine open, unless I am going outside in the ocean. Then, I close all but the engine thru hull. The ocean gets my respect. In the bay, I leave them open out of laziness mostly. Haven't had a problem in over 20 years.

markpierce said:

I agree. But rather than crawl-in engine rooms, I prefer sit-ins.

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I do not have a walk in engine room maybe on the next boat who knows but I do have a VERY roomy sit in engine room

or with both hatches up stand up except for ducking under the support beam

Ski in NC said:

I've investigated several sinkings and flooding events. In my area the causes rank as follows:

1. Dripless shaft seal failures. Typically plastic internal bushing seizes to shaft, spins seal housing and rips hose to shaft log. Or it is leaking badly due to wear, and pump fails or shore power fails.

2. Leaky std bronze packing, combined with pump failure or loss of shore power and flat batts.

3. Bilge pump discharges with through hull very close to water line, and no vented loop. Unusual trim or whatever combined with flat batts, water back flows through pump.

4. Heavy rain or hurricane combined with pump failure/flat batts.

5. Sinking "on the hill". Rain and no pumps, boat on blocks slowly floods.

Never seen a hose come off or burst while boat is on the dock. Have seen hoses fail on running engines, that's a different issue.

Closing sea cocks would have saved none of the above.

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>5. Sinking "on the hill". Rain and no pumps, boat on blocks slowly floods.<

Our across the canal neighbor left his boat in Maine for the winter but the boat did mot have a garboard plug to pull.

Rain filled the cockpit which filled the hull deep enough to require a new engine.

Stuff happens , thinking ahead he might have pulled a low hose in the bilge and left the sea cock open. Of course hind sight is always 20/20 .

I couldn't stand the fact that my hoses were pretty much all 35 years old. I finally broke down and had them all replaced with top of the line hose and ss clamps. Peace of mind is priceless!

Trawlerpeople said:

I couldn't stand the fact that my hoses were pretty much all 35 years old. I finally broke down and had them all replaced with top of the line hose and ss clamps. Peace of mind is priceless!

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That is on my list starting mid Jan

I'm trying to get the financial fortitude to have this done as well. I have no desire to DIY this and I just dropped $30K boat bucks in the last 6months. So I'm a little nervous running this one up the flag pole. Maybe I could use the "safety" story again?

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Old hoses...keep seacocks closed a lot....


...or...


New hoses, clamps, bilge pump setups and feel good about even if something goes wrong...what's the worst case realistic scenario? Do you feel good about it...

5. Sinking "on the hill". Rain and no pumps, boat on blocks slowly floods.
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Funny you mention this, during my 4 day haul out this fall, I asked the yard to block my boat with the stern high so I would have ground clearance in case I wanted to pull the shafts. They were reluctant to do it unless I signed a notation on the work order and I had to assure them that my bilge pumps would be on. (Flush deck boat. . . even in the hardest rain no water would have entered the hull!!)

The marina in Ft Lauderdale years ago asked me if I had a garboard drain on my sailboat...I told them no.


A guy marched out and drilled a 1/2 inch or so hole in the bottom of my boat without even asking...they said..if stored on dry land...all boats had to have a way of draining the bilge.


Now I know better...but it doesn't surprise me if many more marinas demanded or drilled.

psneeld said:

The marina in Ft Lauderdale years ago asked me if I had a garboard drain on my sailboat...I told them no.


A guy marched out and drilled a 1/2 inch or so hole in the bottom of my boat without even asking...they said..if stored on dry land...all boats had to have a way of draining the bilge.


Now I know better...but it doesn't surprise me if many more marinas demanded or drilled.

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When we were in Panama I heard the same thing, not realizing that it was SOP for seasonal, long term cruisers (125 plus inches of rain annually).

One important item that was not mentioned yet (I think) was the value of a high water alarm. We have one installed in our bilge just above the level of the bilge pump sump. It is the loudest thing I have ever heard on our boat short of the Kahlenbergs, or the Admiral when she's upset about a couple of boat dollars. We live aboard and closing thru hulls would be most impractical--think refrigeration, A/C, genny etc. the high water alarm helps to give a peaceful night's sleep. Howard

Our boat has a very loud high water alarm. That plus nearby liveaboards plus a marina security dock patrol every couple of hous plus a who-to-call sheet in the window helps provide a sense of security.

That's a heck of a good idea, and just when i had started to think I was done with this!

We keep all of our seacocks closed and have a sign on helm.

I don't buy the whole "my boat is too big" or "I just have too many of them". In aviation, the more complex the plane, systems, checks, etc...the longer the preflight. That comes with the territory of moving on up in size. Not to mention it makes you physically go down and look at everything else in the ER and keeps the seacocks from seizing up. I do like the idea of hanging the engine keys on the handle!


I don't understand the problem, a good check only takes minutes if you are familiar with the equipment and you do it often.


Then again I'm the type of guy that looks at my truck underneath quickly before driving any time. Puddles is troubles...

Just a thought:
water would pass a leak 1m below waterline with ~ 4.4 m/s. Considering an open 1" seacock this would end up with ~ 7800 liter / hour or 2000 gph.
Please compare this figure to the real as built rating (! Not catalogue rating!) of your pumps.
(And 1.5" instead of 1" would more than double the flow rate ...)

However, we do normally not close our seacocks, only if leaving the boat for a couple of weeks. During the season we show up at least once a week. And we rely on the day by day inspection we perform every time we're on board which would lead to appropriate maintenance in case of any doubt ...



best regards / med venlig hilsen
wadden

Our new to us boat has Groco seacocks for the most part. They are all in need of freeing up. They are the style that have a "wingnut" style fastener at the narrow end of the taper. I am going to try a heat gun in combination with loosening the tension nut off, to free them up. There is visible grease where the plug goes into the body of the seacock so I am hopeful. The main engine seacocks are from Sarco. They have a "y" configuration, but the part that "y's" off has a cap with about a 1" square plug in it. I'm wondering if there is some kind of strainer in the "y". I was able to free one yesterday, I am paying for it with a sore neck and shoulder today. I tapped the handle with a rubber mallet until it began to move, then push it closed. It took a pretty good effort to pull it back open but I worked it back and forth a few times and it became freer. I am going to remove the handle from the other sarco and put a large spanner or socket over the square end on the tapered plug, then tap it with my mallet, hoping it comes free. I can't seem to find much out about Sarco other than it would seem they don't make seacocks anymore. They manufacture steam valves and pipeline valves now.

I use an 8" long piece of pipe to slip over the handle of a seacock giving some extra leverage so no hammering is necessary if it is stubborn.

hmason said:

I use an 8" long piece of pipe to slip over the handle of a seacock giving some extra leverage so no hammering is necessary if it is stubborn.

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I can see that as a good method to reduce the effort involved once the seacocks are freed up. The biggest ones on the boat, the engine raw water supplies, port side I freed up, starboard is still frozen. The starboard handle is already bent so I am thinking it is not going to be easy to rotate the seacock.
I plan to loosen off the tension nut a 1/2 turn, then give the tension nut a sharp rap with a hammer, using a wood block as a damper. This might move it back enough to free the tapered drum.

hmason said:

I use an 8" long piece of pipe to slip over the handle of a seacock giving some extra leverage so no hammering is necessary if it is stubborn.

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To free up my stiff seacocks I found a long spark plug socket wrench a perfect tool to use for the purpose of getting that extra leverage on the seacock handle.

If your using a hammer I would suggest to make sure you have various size plugs handy. A friend of mine did this and the sea cock was so corroded that it literally broke off. Not fun, he was at a marina when he did it and they pulled it right away.

My assumption was that talking about the need of a hammer and / or significant increased forces to move the handle of a fretted seacock we would talk about boats standing high and dry on land?

We have one fretted seacock sitting exactly at the waterline. All attempts with reasonable forces on the handle failed so we put it on the list for the next time on the yard ...




best regards / med venlig hilsen
wadden

> All attempts with reasonable forces on the handle failed<

Has the unit drain plugs that can be removed and zerk fittings installed?

Many times just pulling the fitting and spraying with PB Blaster is enough.

When you pull the boat some VERY! fine emery cloth on the interior barrel , followed with lapping together with fine valve grinding compound should have it back in shape for another 30 years.

Thanks. We will be out for a week this year, this seacock is one of the action items on our list.



best regards / med venlig hilsen
wadden