My First Time!

Well this last weekend I had my first fog adventure and man was it nerve wrecking. We left St. Helens, OR as the fog appeared to be lifting. It didn’t take long to be in the thick of things. Couldn’t see 10 feet in front of the bow. I attempted to steer IAW the GPS and radar, but not knowing what was out there in the shipping channels made it more of a pucker factor.

Lessons learned:

1. I will be getting AIS next month at the boat show.
2. Steering by GPS or radar is at best difficult. Should have plotted a course on the GPS and stuck to it. Should have increased radar range to at least a mile on the river. I was running ½ mile.
3. Stay out of the shipping channel! I actually had two ships making their way up the creek and all we could hear was their horn. I did see them on radar later and we were out of the shipping channel.
4. Slowing downed helped.
5. Second set of eyes was a good thing and the help from the Admiral helped me gain some confidence back.
6. Could have sat at the dock longer. Not got in a hurry.
7. Crap I forgot about the dredge work going on down river how the hell am I going to get around the pipes????

The fog bank was about 7 miles in length so we ended up in nice blue skies and no issues down river. I will be practicing more on a clear day. I am glad we went through this ordeal as it proved to me I and the admiral have to work as a team and gain more experience.

Anyone want to share thier first time?

Sounds like the main thing to do is practice using radar and GPS in good conditions. Our tendency is to not work with them much until they're really needed.

My first time ever in a situation like you described was on the lake we lived on. I really felt silly having radar on a 30' runabout on a lake. We'd played around with it some. But one day we were out and there was a torrential downpour accompanied by terrible fog. None of the danger of open water that you faced, but could not see either bank of the lake. Just a small inland lake but we happened to be at the widest part when this happened. Fortunately it was winter so not many boats on the water. I knew by the end of that day I'd never own another boat without radar.

One item I forgot was to plot a course line with your GPS to help.

Thanks for sharing

Random thoughts from reading your post:

1. AIS is nice, but don't be too reliant on it, too many boats don't have it
2. Yes, using radar while traveling through fog is highly advisable but be knowledgable of limitations. If you're picking up large freighters, tankers, or cruiseships a smaller target can go unseen.
3. We will, whenever possible, let the autopilot steer a heading allowing us more time monitoring position with head and ears out of the pilothouse (if possible). You should be able to do this without plotting a course.

All technology is helpful, but not at the expense of eyes and ears on the lookout. Lastly, I think you're 100% right that slowing down is very helpful. Not only does it increase your reaction distance but it also makes it quieter enabling you to hear others better.

BandB said:

Sounds like the main thing to do is practice using radar and GPS in good conditions. Our tendency is to not work with them much until they're really needed.

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Can't agree more. It was my first season with the radar and dispite a few practice runs in good daytime conditions there is plenty to learn by experience for me.

The key is practice, and more practice.

Run your RADAR during the day and learn to correlate returns with various types of targets. Dont just do it once or twice, run your RADAR every time your boat is underway.

With time you'll get to the point where when something shows up on the screen you know its real, and when, there's nothing on the screen you'll know there is really nothing there.

Good Posts! No Mast the only auto pilot I have is me! Hands on the wheel. Yep it's on my list. I also had my fog horn on although it wasn't as loud as the big boys... Kevin couldn't agree more and i will be practicing a lot more.

Our first time in Fog was many years ago on a new to me boat. While diving off Point Loma in San Diego a thick fog bank came in. Still new to my limited electronics I simply fired up the radar and set the GPS to the point marked "Mission Bay" set by the prior owner.

Well, the radar didn't work worth a damn, we nearly ran over a couple other dive boats on the way back. As we approached the Mission Bay jetty the surf seemed a bit loud. It was about 20 yards off the jetty when we noticed we were heading straight for the rocks, the prior owner had set the waypoint for a 1/2 mile inside the harbor.

Needless to say, the waypoints were deleted, the crappy electronics were pulled and a new Furuno system installed with GPS, Chartplotter and Radar. We, like others here, ran it every time out on the water from then on.

If you can overlay the radar onto the chart it will do a couple of things. It will confirm that returns from markers actually are markers and not boats. It will allow you to look at both at the same time

Plotting a course line, and letting the auto pilot navigate it frees up attention needed elsewhere. A lookout with good ears on the bow is desirable.

Agree Don, but I still have the old Ratheon radar. I will be upgrading with Ray marine later this spring.

As with all of the above comments, working with your radar in calm and clear conditions is critical. The Radar Book: Effective Navigation and Collision Avoidance, by Kevin Monahan is an excellent guide on how to get the best from your radar to avoid collisions.

I now spend considerable time when steaming about looking at landmarks, ships and the radar and I am constantly changing the range to look at how things change, adjusting gain, etc. A couple of things I have learned:

1) Set a course down on your plotter of your intended journey if you must travel in fog.
2) When in the fog, use the autopilot all the time, switching it to standby only when avoiding collisions.
3) When changing headings, look at the next waypoint to see the course heading, steer the boat until the heading on the autopilot matches the course heading and lock in the autopilot and make small adjustments as necessary. That way, you won't grossly under or over steer the vessel, which is the tendency in fog.
4) Switch between close range (0.25-1NM) and mid range (2-4 nm) on your radar regularly. This is really important in areas where there are sport fishing vessels--they seldom have radar, are ignorant of collision rules and those around them and are really out of it!
5) When entering channels or constricted waterways, announce your presence with a "Securitie" on Channel 16. Commercial and other traffic can contact you to discuss collision avoidance if necessary.
6) Contact "Vessel Traffic Services" when in channels or constricted waterways. Ferries and other commercial traffic will learn of your presence. I have actually had VTS contact me out of the blue one day when entering Active Pass, so they could pass the information on to commercial traffic in the area.
7) Use your horn, long blast every minute.
8) Reduce Speed.
9) Have someone else as a look out while your head is in the instruments.


While I haven't gone through Active Pass in the fog, there can be up to 4 BC ferries running through this Pass during a 10-15 passage through the area. I regularly contact them on the Victoria Traffic Channel (11) now to confirm safe passes.


Jim

All good advice. I run my radar at all times for the reasons already stated.

I woudn't go in the fog without the following:

1. Autopilot. The workload is just too high to hand steer a course and watch radar, chartplotter and windows while listening for other foghorns.

2. Chartplotter - I slew out with a course to a waypoint at 1 mile or less range to keep me on course and within my narrow waterways/channels.

3. Radar - at a range allowing me to see boats 1 1/2-2 miles away for adequate warning

4. Foghorn. I have FogMate which uses my boat's horn to automatically sound at the required intervals.

5. VHF Comm on Ch 16 and the area working channel for commercial vessels.

AIS is nice to have as early warning, but there are too many vessels without AIS transmitters (like me) who won't show up. Radar is the source for all boats if properly adjusted and operated.

Also remember that the lights on freighters can be 30 feet in the air, not at water level like we're used to seeing on our smaller vessels. I had a close call one dark, moonless night when a dark-hulled freighter showed up on our bow while we were approaching the Antioch Bridge from the west. I was new to the boat and not yet well versed in using the radar. The ship's lights were visually lost in the car lights crossing the bridge in the background. The ship's horn was unmistakable, though!!

Hard to steer a steady course, when dealing with chartplotter and radar. If you have another aboard, have them steer concentrating on compass, while you deal with the electronics. Before I had the autopilot, my course line in fog, especially when dealing with traffic was not to good. Autopilot is a real stress reliever.

Don't forget, one of your options is to "stay put". Anchor if it is safe to do so(and depth appropriate). Before GPS/chartplotters etc , it was common to "anchor up". It screwed up your Monday morning back at work, but you made it alive. Hand steering by compass alone (no autopilot) sucks. You can't multi task this and pay attention to nav duties/radar etc with any real situation awareness. Stay out of the shipping channels if your draft allows. Common sense prevails here folks.

My first time in fog was crossing Rosario Strait heading to Deception Pass. It was very thick but i had a course plotted and made it through the shipping lanes with no problem. What stands out from this experience is the number of boaters that would come on the VHF radio and warn the other boaters to watch out for them when they come through the pass because they have no radar. There were continuous reports of fog on the radio so they weren't surprised by it. Rather, they chose to take their chances and put others in danger as well. Don't assume the other boaters know what they are doing.

We have never not gone anywhere because of fog. If it's foggy, we run in the fog. We made a three-hour run once through the islands and never saw much farther than a few boat lengths around us. We've run narrow, dog-leg passes between islands that are a hundred yards or less wide and not once seen either shore. Both my wife and I actually quite like running in the fog. Probably me more than her.

My point is not to say how great we are at running on instruments, it's to say that we treat virtually every run we make as though we have zero visibility. Like FlyWright, we have our radar on at all times, and whoever is driving refers to it frequently.

This means that we are totally familiar with what the display looks like under different conditions, and we know what different target returns look like, and we are used to using the radar's features and adjustments to get the best display at every range we use as well as to track other targets (Furuno NavNet VX2).

We also have--- or we enter if it's a new one-- every course we follow into the two plotters. And then we follow those courses. Regardless of the visibility. Which means that we're totally comfortable using the steering directions screens as well as the map screens, and holding a heading with the magnetic compass and using the plotters to confirm the heading we're holding is the right one (the currents around here force heading changes every few minutes most of the time, to track a course).

Why hold our headings with the magnetic compass and not the plotters? Because the compass reacts instantly to the tiniest change. With the plotters, you have to wait a bit to see the change. So yes, you can hold a heading with a plotter but your wake will look a bit like a snake as you chase the corrections back and forth.

All of which means that if we're cruising along in nice visibility and we come around a point to be confronted with a fog bank right down to the surface in the middle of the channel ahead of us-- a very common situation at certain times of the year around here---- it's a totally smooth and seamless transition from running with miles of visibility to running wth yards of visibility.

We've been doing this for the 16 years we've had this boat.

So yes, it's all about practice and getting totally familiar and comfortable with and confident in the navigation equipment on the boat. So when we do come around the corner and drive into the fog bank, the only thing that happens is the person not driving at the time comes forward to stand beside the driver and run the radar, as well as provide another pair of eyes and ears. We have an outside PA that also functions as an intercom, so we can turn that up to hear any horns that might be sounding around us.

It's reached the point where we have practiced operating the boat this way for so long that we're actually a bit disappointed if we go on a run during the fog-prone seasons and we don't get a chance to run for at least a little while in the fog.

drb1025 said:

My first time in fog was crossing Rosario Strait heading to Deception Pass. It was very thick but i had a course plotted and made it through the shipping lanes with no problem. What stands out from this experience is the number of boaters that would come on the VHF radio and warn the other boaters to watch out for them when they come through the pass because they have no radar. There were continuous reports of fog on the radio so they weren't surprised by it. Rather, they chose to take their chances and put others in danger as well. Don't assume the other boaters know what they are doing.

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One of our most adrenaline-producing fog experiences was crossing Rosario Strait on the last day of a 3.5 month trip through BC and SE AK. We were heading from Thatcher Pass to Deception Pass when it got very thick. Saw ~2 dozen! other boats on the radar. From the radio chatter, it seemed that it was closing in on the time to be back to the charter base in Anacortes, and some were concerned that if they didn't hurry on through the fog they'd miss the slack at the pass, and then miss their check-in time at the base.

Our guess was that some also had little fog experience, as several were moving fast, and in all sorts of directions. Seriously nerve-wracking. No sooner would we steer away from one approaching vessel than we would find ourselves on course to get way too close to another.

We decided that discretion was the better part of valor. We didn't want to be in the middle of such a dogfight, and turned away to anchor for a while until the fog and crowd dissipated. Just as we were turning, a ~40-footer came blasting out of the fog about 100 yards away, turning as she went. Would have been on pretty much of a collision course, at 15-20 knots. Thanks very much to our Furuno 4kw, we made it safely to a temporary anchorage. We missed the slack, but got through 6 hours later, unscathed.

Advice here has been very good. I'd start by agreeing most particularly on the use of an auto pilot. For me without one, I tend to sense turns that are not happening and try to correct. That or I'm so glued to the compass I can't see anything else. Fog is about consulting multiple sources of information while keeping things as simple as possible. That strongly favors an autopilot.

I'll add some quirks of radar, especially since you were on the river. One of the hardest places to run radar is where you are close to large hills. The reflections will sometimes bleed back and appear to crowd out what is real. Usually that's pretty distinctive that it is happening, but finding the edge of the channel when things choke down is harder and it is most likely to happen in the spots you have the least channel to navigate if the banks are high. It's also the kind of thing if not watched that can easily hide a large target like a ship. The tendency to push up power is wrong in this situation. You instead want to decrease power, to reduce the reflected returns allowing the radar to be more selective. All of this is simply a strong suggestion to always use your radar on nice days so these artifacts just become second nature. Also a good reason to be frequently changing range so you are looking both near and far, also helps with these effects.

I personally like to have my radar separated from my gps as I don't want anything cluttering the interpretation of the radar, but that is a preference.

There is one chief advantage of AIS other than seeing around corners, and that is quick access to the names of vessels. Nothing beats making contact and passing arrangements for safety.

Lastly, never trust a marked traffic channel. I imagine that the river does not allow a lot of margin room, but here in Puget Sound, I've noticed occasionally a ship that was outside of a marked lane by a significant distance that you might otherwise ignore because your gps tells you that you are outside the line. If you are monitoring vessel traffic, sometimes you may pick up a clue to what is going on. It's not a huge factor, but some have been surprised thinking they could safely ignore approaching vessels under the belief that traffic lanes acted as some kind of guard rail.

Wow great read thanks everyone. I will take a lot of this to heart. I do need more practice...

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Wow great read thanks everyone. I will take a lot of this to heart. I do need more practice...

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You started one of the most worthwhile threads here. I applaud that you realized you weren't as prepared as you wished you had been and discussed your lessons learned. We all continue to learn how to do things better. The more critical of ourselves ones of us like you learn even when it wouldn't have even been known to others they didn't have it all mastered. Just because we made it through safely doesn't mean we can't learn more to make it easier next time.

Amen! Hey I not afraid to share my good, bad and ugly. We all learn that way and maybe become safer boaters in the process.

ghost said:

One of the hardest places to run radar is where you are close to large hills..

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The lowest range setting on the old Raytheon 2600 radar that came with our boat was one mile. The Furuno we replaced it with goes down to an eighth of a mile. In fog, particularly in the narrow passes, we find ourselves using settings from an eighth to a half mile almost exclusively. The low settings give great return separatoin of targets even when one is only 100 yards off an unseen cliff.

I don't think we have used a range over three miles, ever, other than to test the radar. The distances between the islands here tend to dictate low ranges anyway.

Another thing we do when running in serious fog is to vary the gain on the radar periodically to make sure we aren't overlooking something. We have found that getting the best use out of a radar is not a matter of set-and-forget. It's an instrument that has a lot of adjustments on it for good reason. We have also found that we can do a more effective job of tuning the radar manually than by relying on the various "auto" settings. The auto settings too often mask targets that need to be seen.

There is a great book on using radar called "The Radar Book" by Kevin Monahan. We bought our copy years ago before AIS was on the scene. I don't know if the book has been updated to reflect new develolpments in radar technology, but even if it hasn't, it's a great way to learn both the basics of radar and how to get the most out of one.

Question from a boater without radar that does crew periodically for others w/ radar.

I saw no mention of radar reflectors - if your radar is on does that negate the need to have a reflector to make yourself more visible or is both desirable?

Bacchus said:

Question from a boater without radar that does crew periodically for others w/ radar.

I saw no mention of radar reflectors - if your radar is on does that negate the need to have a reflector to make yourself more visible or is both desirable?

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At short range a properly operated modern RADAR can see any boat, with or without a RADAR reflector.

The cool thing about fog is that it generally is accompanied by calm seas, at least in my experience. This means you can turn up the gain, enabling you to see smaller targets.

We run in the fog allot and love it. Like others here, we shorten up the range to generally the 1.5NM range, or even shorter if we are operating around islands or channels. This way I can see whats out there in time to make course corrections.

Also AIS is a great tool. It can see around corners and the boats that generally have AIS are less maneuverable, so AIS gives me and the opposing captain information in a timely manner to make collision avoidance easier.

ksanders said:

The key is practice, and more practice.

Run your RADAR during the day and learn to correlate returns with various types of targets. Dont just do it once or twice, run your RADAR every time your boat is underway.

With time you'll get to the point where when something shows up on the screen you know its real, and when, there's nothing on the screen you'll know there is really nothing there.

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I've never run anyplace without the radar on. I always am looking at what the returns look like. This is the time to practice with the gain. I finally got my Raymarine to not give me wave tops, but still give me floats.

AIS send and receive is worth it as it allows the professionals to get out of YOUR way or they will call if unable to do so.

Wxx3 said:

I've never run anyplace without the radar on. I always am looking at what the returns look like. This is the time to practice with the gain. I finally got my Raymarine to not give me wave tops, but still give me floats.

AIS send and receive is worth it as it allows the professionals to get out of YOUR way or they will call if unable to do so.

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You'll like this Richard. It will bring back memories for you and your recent travels.

The post below was copied from another forum where I was posting live during a night crossing of the Gulf of Alaska. This is why we get to know our equipment...

I have to admit, its been a long time since I operated a boat at night. Imagine this...You're in a sea that is safe but moves the boat around quite a bit. OK you can imagine that. Now take away all of your visual references. You cannot see. You do not know when a wave is going to hit. But you learn. You get a feel for the rhythm. You begin to anticipate the next set.

This is a time when you live by your radar and your chart plotter, because this is is really all you have between you and danger. Unimaginable danger. The primal fear danger of not surviving. Right now this is my world. This is night shift on the MV Lisas Way.

Right now at this particular moment I am very happy that my Furuno Manual looks old and tattered. Why...Because I've read it. Not once, but many times, over a period of years. I know that equipment. I know that when the radar shows something it really exists. I know that when it shows nothing thats because nothing is out there. Because when your equipment is all that separates you from the darkest of times, having confidence in that equipment is all that keeps you sane.

Right now I'm in the middle of my 4 hour watch. Jamison is asleep in his bunk, and I am at the helm. I can see the tip of Kyak Island that we just passed. I can see a couple of shower cells on the radar. Other than that all is quiet on the MV lisas Way.

ksanders said:

At short range a properly operated modern RADAR can see any boat, with or without a RADAR reflector.
.

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I would still recommend a radar reflector. There are too many folks out there who do not know how to properly operate their radar. No harm in making yourself more visible

I always have the radar return overlaid on top of the GPS/plotter screen. That way I only have to look at one screen and can quickly see where I am and where other things are.

I like to slow down to idle speed and pick my way carefully along my course.

A bit of a funny story to share about how Captain Murphy can become a part of your crew when he's least expected.

Four of us were on my boss's boat. We'd launched from Whittier, AK on a five day "bear hunting trip" which was actually more of a "let's get away from work for a few days" trip. We'd gone over to Montague Island then up to Hinchinbrook Island and were just having fun. Sleeping on the boat, slow cruising during the day, just the guys having a good time.

On our last morning we set a course from Hinchinbrook Island back toward Whittier Inlet. We had plenty of time to make the trip then load the boat on the trailer and drive the truck/trailer onto the train to get out of Whittier.

This was back when there was no GPS. We had a compass and charts to go by and we'd done fine all week. On the cruise back to Whittier it started to rain. No problem, we turned on the wipers. After a few hours we should have reached Whittier but hadn't , and we kept seeing small ice bergs.

We kept going and started to get worried because we realized two things--#1 we had no clue where we were, and #2 we likely were going to miss the train.

After a bit the rain stopped and we turned off the wipers. When we did that the compass swung wildly. Only then did we realize that the wiper motor had set up an electrical field that froze the compass at the heading it was set to when we turned the wipers on. Now we were REALLY lost! We had no idea where we were or how to get to Whittier.

We finally found a small fishing boat and asked him where we were. He chuckled at our error and told us how to get to Whittier. We ran on plane all the way back there, loaded the boat in a hurry and barely made the train.

Lesson learned, and Murphy was released from duty!