Bruce anchor puts 40-plus foot cruiser on the rocks

Thought that would get your attention.. Anyway, the cruiser I mentioned in the "Binoculars" thread that dragged up onto the rocks floated free last night on the high tide. At least we assume it floated free and didn't slip off and sink. It wasn't there when we left the island this morning and ran around to check. Whether it was able to leave under its own power or had to be towed we don't know.

If they were able to leave under their own power on one or both engines they were very, very lucky to "land" on the reef just right and then not tip over as the tide went out. I'll try to remember to post a photo tonight when we get home.

Meanwhile we're sitting here on the boat listening to call after call on the VHF for assistance-- out of fuel, broke down, or aground. Ain't boating grand?

I like the title of this thread. But really, they dragged in winds that gusted to 25 knots and it's the anchors fault?

Yea Larry ..........you got it right.

But Marin in you're post of Bruce bashing you probably should have used the word Claw. You're snoopy binoculars most likely could'nt make out what it said on the shank.

It's amazing how many boats go on a big rock on a falling tide and are sticking up on a small point of the rock looking like if a Seagull landed on one end the whole thing should tip over. Seen many many pictures like that.

If that happens to me I'll throw my roll bar anchor over the side and claim that's what I was using. Haha

I went back to read his "binoculars" post and he tells the tale pretty much objectively there and somebody even ASKED him what anchor the guy was using. Did'nt mention that it could be the first Rocna drag he'd seen. In all honesty that prolly didn't occur to him. Didn't occur to me for awhile either.

You're right, they could have been Claws or Bruces or Bruce knock-offs on the boats that dragged in our bay. They all look the same from a distance at night through binoculars. I was told the anchor on the boat that dragged onto the rocks was a Bruce.

Faithful reporting Marin except that the thread header suggests the "Bruce" anchor picked the boat up and dashed it upon the rocks. By the way I thought that bay was a mud bay.

Have you been gone recently? Haven't seen much of you lately. Sure like that Navimatics app. It's so fast w the touch control screen. I'm still waiting for the cigarette lighter plug in charger. Wo'nt last long w/o it.

Still no Rocna anchors up here on fish boats or any boat. If the roll bar anchor had no roll bar and managed to set I wonder how it would or wouldn't work holding a boat? It would probably stay set but I don't think it would have much holding power and I'm talking about the Supreme and the Rocna only. What think you?

Hi Guys, had a coffee with Rex Francis at the Sanctuary Cove Boat Show on Friday, and he tells me he is working hard to get a shipment of Sarcas over your way quite soon, so watch the space, so to speak. Eric, they now have a special alloy version of the Excel, which sets and holds really well, but would allow one to have a larger size for more fluke area but not weigh too much at the same time. The design is such it is not so dependent for weight to work like the Claw/Bruce, whatevers, so it could be your perfect answer...so don't go buying too many more for now I suggest, or you won't have room for one when they become available.
Cheers, Pete

As promised here are some photos. The bay is Shallow Bay on Sucia Island in the San Juans. The boat is from BC. Don't know the make-- there are a bazillion kinds of boats out there with the same basic lines and they all look the same to me.

From the tight shot it appears that the running gear survived okay--- like our GB the keel extends down considerably lower than the rudders and props. So it's very likely that when it refloated they simply drove away. Last night the winds were light to non-existant so they would not have had much if anything trying to push them around on the reef as the tide came up around midnight or later. If my guess is correct, a very, very lucky escape.

Sweet Hey skipper this was a 3 hour cruise right ??

Sad sight, but I have to say our 21 ton Krogen has hung on a 66# genuine Bruce through several gales, tide changes (direction reversals), soft, hard, deep, shallow, windy places and we're still afloat. Guess it's just what works for you. For sure, if the wind hits 60 that 3 to 1 scope you used will be a problem. Be careful out there.

Marin: Shallow Bay wasn't the only place in the area that had issues that night.

Howling winds take toll on boaters in Fossil Bay - Journal of the San Juan Islands

You got that right Larry! We were in Bowman Bay bouncing up and down from 2000 hrs to 0400 hrs, not a night for rest. Watched several boats chew through dock lines on failing bull rails. Wish the state had the funds to fix things instead of this no money for nada time we're suffering through.

Hope you guys are enjoying your adventure & wish we we're with you.
Tom

Larry M said:

Marin: Shallow Bay wasn't the only place in the area that had issues that night.

Howling winds take toll on boaters in Fossil Bay - Journal of the San Juan Islands

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I know. We were in Fossil that night with Carey and his wife. The two boats that had the worst problems with dragging had Bruce anchors, too. Or at least claw-types. Couldn't read the brand names from a distance and in silhouette against all the flashlights and searchlights.

Did the anchor fail or was it not set properly? Most cases it is not the anchor. My Bruce failed miserably once. Or should I say that I failed miserably in setting my anchor That night.

jclays said:

Did the anchor fail or was it not set properly? Most cases it is not the anchor. My Bruce failed miserably once. Or should I say that I failed miserably in setting my anchor That night.

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I have no idea.

We had enough trouble with our Bruce holding over the years we had it that we finally gave up on it and got something else. This was with all-chain rode and a scope of between 5:1 and 7:1.

As I recall, we only had a problem once with the Bruce setting. Other than that, it set fairly quickly in all the bottoms we used it in which was consistent with its reputation. And as long as no real strain was put on the rode it did fine. But when the wind and waves kicked up, that's when we, and other people we boat with, had problems with it not staying set.

Which I guess was to be expected given that the Bruce is consistently at or near the bottom in terms of holding power in most of the anchor tests we've read. We put it on the boat the day after we got the boat up to Bellingham because a) it seemed to be the most popular anchor in this area among powerboaters so we figured there must be a good reason for this, and b) we probably never really expected it to have to hold under higher winds and stuff. After all, this is the calm, protected, inside-waters PNW, right, not the exposed southwestern Pacific.

What a crock of poop! Blame the anchor not his seamanship, right. The fact of the matter is that Bruce anchors ( and others) have held boats of all types in many wx situations. Is there no Captain accountability in this situation?
He probably blames his car when it runs out of gas because it doesn't get enough MPG!

Sailor of Fortune said:

What a crock of poop! Blame the anchor not his seamanship, right. The fact of the matter is that Bruce anchors ( and others) have held boats of all types in many wx situations. Is there no Captain accountability in this situation?
He probably blames his car when it runs out of gas because it doesn't get enough MPG!

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This is America...
Nobody has to take responsibility for their own actions anymore.

HOLLYWOOD

Blame it on the device

Greetings,
A poor workhorse always blames his shoes.

RT I like that one

jclays said:

Did the anchor fail or was it not set properly? Most cases it is not the anchor. My Bruce failed miserably once. Or should I say that I failed miserably in setting my anchor That night.

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Actually looking at the picture, that happened to me last year in Maine.

It's possible it has nothing to do with anchor or dragging or scope or who the hell knows.

Maybe just too much anchor kool-aide

I seem to recall that the Bruce anchor design was tested on North sea oil drilling platform and kept them anchored fine. Me thinks the person on the end of the rode might be the problem.

I'm sure glad that I have been made aware of the Bruce anchor shortcomings. She worked without fail for the years I had her on my aluminum twin diesel boat. I'm sure I had to re-anchor sometimes, not enough that I remember it being a problem.
Possibly some of the problems of these anchors aren't in the anchor but in the mirror? Just sayin....

HiDHo said:

I seem to recall that the Bruce anchor design was tested on North sea oil drilling platform and kept them anchored fine. Me thinks the person on the end of the rode might be the problem.

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The Bruce anchor used on the oil rigs looks almost nothing like the Bruce anchor used by recreational boaters. Also, it is many, many tons in weight. And while you can scale an anchor up and down, you can't scale the bottom up and down.

Photo below is a Bruce oil rig anchor. The only commonality between it and the little anchors on the bows of recreational boats is the name.

Wxx3 said:

It's possible it has nothing to do with anchor or dragging or scope or who the hell knows.

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In this particular case, what put the boat on the reef was dragging at a tide turn, high to low. Dragging, in fact, through a somewhat crowded anchorage with some boats at anchor and others moored to the marine park buoys. The rode, at least the bit hanging from the pulpit, appeared to be chain.

Marin said:

In this particular case, what put the boat on the reef was dragging at a tide turn, high to low. Dragging, in fact, through a somewhat crowded anchorage with some boats at anchor and others moored to the marine park buoys. The rode, at least the bit hanging from the pulpit, appeared to be chain.

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So I'm guessing that we don't know if he had the appropriate amount of scope in his anchoring system or if he kept an anchor watch?? Just easier to blame the anchor/tide/other boats etc.

Sailor of Fortune said:

So I'm guessing that we don't know if he had the appropriate amount of scope in his anchoring system or if he kept an anchor watch??

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Well, he obviously didn't keep an anchor watch, although he had started out pretty close to the reef so it wouldn't hava taken much time for the boat to hit it once it started to move.

The amount of scope and how well he'd set the anchor in the first place are all unknowns. However, given the Bruce/claw type anchor's known low holding power (demonstrated in about three zillion anchor tests), it was certainly one strike against him even if we dont know what the other two strikes were.

The Bruce's low holding is a well-known characteristic. When we bought our boat in 1998 and decided to put a Bruce on it to replace the old, no-name, bent Danforth that the boat had had in the SFO bay area, the anchor guy at the commercial fishing supply company from which we bought the anchor told us that the Bruce set great in all kinds of bottoms but had relatively low holding power. But we figured that in our protected waters this low holding power would rarely if ever be put to the test.

Well, we did put it to the test several times, as did other boating aquaintences, and it dragged more often than not. Finally, after a particularly harrowing experience in which we came close to losing the boat, we said enough's enough and took it off the boat.

I will say, however, that a Bruce is absolutely fabulous at propping open a door, which ours did for years in our garage. Never budged an inch no matter how hard the wind blew. Finally the other year when we didn't need it for this purpose anymore I torched it in half and sent it to the landfill.

Based on our and other people we know's experience, we would never select a Bruce to use where there was a possibility of having a significant strain put on it because I'm convinced its design encourages it to drag. I know there are a lot of people who have good luck with the anchor, and perhaps in big sizes-- 100 pounds or more-- it does an okay job. But we can't put a 100 pound anchor on our boat so its performance when it's real heavy is irrelevant to us.

Given that there are a number of anchor-types on the market with proven superior performance to the Bruce/claw, from the Fortress to the rollbar anchors, were we in the market for an anchor today we would see no reason to even consider a claw-type anchor. In the smaller sizes, at least, they are a risky bet at best in our opinions.

One couple we boat with who have an oversized Bruce for the weight and windage of their boat have had enough problems with it that the wife now refuses to anchor anymore until they replace the Bruce with something more reliable.

Ours was a genuine Bruce. I have no idea if the knock-offs and imitators offer any better performance, but given that they have the same design, I expect not.

I better let all the commercial boats around the harbor here the get rid of their Bruce anchors. I think its the captain and not the anchor.

jclays said:

I better let all the commercial boats around the harbor here the get rid of their Bruce anchors. I think its the captain and not the anchor.

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There is no way of knowing unless one can find out exactly how all the variables in anchoring were addressed in a particular situation. In the case of the boat on the reef in my photo, all that I know is that the boat dragged during the high winds, the other anchored boats didn't, and the anchor used by the boat on the reef was a Bruce. I do not know what kinds of anchors the other boats used, nor do I know their scope, rode type, etc.

The same thing goes for the boats that dragged badly and got all tangled up in the bay we were in that same night. I could see when they pulled them up that the anchors on these boats were claw-types, but that's all. What type of rode, what the rode ratio was, etc. are unknowns to me.

However.....I believe in reducing the risk of an anchoring problem as much as possible. It's why we eliminated the swivel in our rode when we learned of the problems they can cause. Since the Bruce/claw is well known and proven to have low holding power relative to some other types of anchors, it was obvious to us that if we wanted to elminate the risk of our Bruce dragging under load, the thing to do was eliminate the Bruce.

So we did, and we have not experienced a dragging problem since.

Will we ever experience a dragging problem with our current anchor? Don't know.

Would we have experienced a dragging problem with the Bruce in subsequent situations when the wind and waves have put our current anchor under a high load? Don't know.

Have we eliminated the risk of our Bruce exhibiting its tendency to drag or come out of the bottom under load? Totally.

And zero chance is my favorite degree of risk.

I remain convinced that Bruce designs are quick setting anchors whose holding power goes up dramatically as the weight increases. I anchored with a 44# for 20 years of cruising and dragged twice. I anchored with a 176# for 5 years and it held fine in 50+ knots of wind. The Bruce design Ray anchor outperformed the Rocna and the Manson in Mr. Starzinger's test in Patagonia in the 100# range, although the result could well have been different in the 35# range.

Delfin said:

I remain convinced that Bruce designs are quick setting anchors whose holding power goes up dramatically as the weight increases..

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I don't dispute that at all. As I said earlier, you can scale an anchor design up and down but you can't scale the bottom up and down. So the bigger and heavier the better in terms of holding power.

We were always impressed at how quickly our Bruce set in the variety of bottoms we encounter. That was never the problem.

Unfortunately, little boats like ours cannot carry a 100-plus pound anchor.

So the obvious solution to us was to go in search of an anchor design that holds reliably under load in a size that will fit on the boat and at a weight that is manageable.