Power budget

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How are the loads divided between the cords? If both A/Cs are on one cord than it doesn't matter whether one or both are on when you are cooking.

When on the Genset just turn one A/C off, the water heater off so it doesn't kick on unexpectedly. And perhaps use the microwave when the stove or oven are shut off. Even if you just turn them off for the short time you want to run the microwave and then turn them back on to finish cooking something. Use a fan to move around the cool air from the one A/C while you cook.

If you go to survey with the boat have the surveyor load the Genset up see what happens. It may handle your intended cooking load better than you think.
 
Art, great boat and all, but frankly IMO that's just too much work and thinking. Big advantage of a properly powered, wired and paneled boat is you, and especially other members of the crew, don't have to worry about any of that stuff.
 
caltexflanc said:
Art, great boat and all, but frankly IMO that's just too much work and thinking. Big advantage of a properly powered, wired and paneled boat is you, and especially other members of the crew, don't have to worry about any of that stuff.
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Keeps me on my toes! And, I like it that way!! :thumb:
 
Once you put an electric stove and two air conditioners into the picture power management becomes a must for all but the boats with the largest power supply. If a 29 ft boat's genset could handle everything you have at the same time then the genset would be too large for the 95% of the time that you would not be running everything.

With an 8kw genset on a 42 ft boat we exercise power management all the time, and we haven't run the air conditioners in years, and have a propane stove.
 
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>t seems that to cook on a hot day, I have to cool the boat, turn off the a/c and hot water, cook the food, and turn the a/c back on.<

With low cost and only a tiny bit of wiring load shedding can be automatic.

A $60 relay can shut off the HW heater when the stove goes on, you wont miss it.

Matching the loads to your use is fairly easy , as you probably already do what is required manually.

A frequent hassle is the total load is OK, but the Starting load of a large motor is too large.

Selecting a pass thru inverter will allow the batt bank to help for that second or two, and recharge the house when it can.
 
Bay Pelican said:
Once you put an electric stove and two air conditioners into the picture power management becomes a must for all but the boats with the largest power supply. If a 29 ft boat's genset cold handle everything you have at the same time then the genset would be too large for the 95% of the time that you would not be running everything.

With an 8kw genset on a 42 ft boat we exercise power management all the time, and we haven't run the air conditioners in years, and have a propane stove.
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Obviously, gotta disagree with you there Marty. Plus "not running the air conditioners in years" and having a propane stove is cheating for the sake of this convo (do they still work, by the way?) and the OP and the laods aboard the subject boat. The generator is going to be quite happy at a quarter or half load. It will be happy when surge loads come on line. Now, I do have to qualify that having an inverter makes this all easier, as the "base loads" can be handled by it. Then the genset comes on to recharge batteries, cook, cool things down, etc. And there are days when you really would like to run virtually everything, so why not be prepared?
 
StuartBell said:
Hi,

My question is about total power usage:

She is equipped with a 16kBtu/hr and a 10 kBtu/hr reverse cycle, electric stove, microwave, hot water, and small electric space heater. This is far more power consumption than the two 30 Amp power cords or the 5kW genset will supply.
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The space heater wont be used while the AirCon is on so kick that out.

As previously stated the Air Con units are usually on separate 30A from the other stuff. When running the genny, just turn one cabin AirCon to fan only while you are cooking.

The water heater would normally be up to temp and cycling infrequently.

The microwave used at the same time as one burner should be ok.

All and all you should be ok with possible minor manual load management.
 
Bay Pelican said:
Once you put an electric stove and two air conditioners into the picture power management becomes a must for all but the boats with the largest power supply. If a 29 ft boat's genset cold handle everything you have at the same time then the genset would be too large for the 95% of the time that you would not be running everything.

With an 8kw genset on a 42 ft boat we exercise power management all the time, and we haven't run the air conditioners in years, and have a propane stove.
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Marty, Thank You! :thumb::thumb::thumb:

In my book...You have stated "mariner common sense"!

That said; if it's a new, big expense boat that came from factory with electrical set up that can more than amply handle all and any power usage from all utility products / appliances running simultaneously... then treat it like a well electrically setup dirt building... i.e. house, office, factory etc. Or, if it's an older boat that's been completely electrically re-setup to handle any loads from whatever may be aboard... then worry not and blithely utilize any/all appliances to your heart's content. :D

BUT... If it is an older boat that did not begin life in the million dollar plus/plus range with basically same electric set up as when it was built - then - in my estimation, power management aboard is a really good and wise idea. :popcorn:
 
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FF "Selecting a pass thru inverter" ? I have an inverter but not sure about the pass thru?
 
Again some live aboard advice will be different than non-liveaboard...adjust accordingly.
 
StuartBell said:
Hi,

I'm moving from 50+ years of sailing to a Trawler, currently looking at a Ranger 29. My question is about total power usage:

She is equipped with a 16kBtu/hr and a 10 kBtu/hr reverse cycle, electric stove, microwave, hot water, and small electric space heater. This is far more power consumption than the two 30 Amp power cords or the 5kW genset will supply.

It seems that to cook on a hot day, I have to cool the boat, turn off the a/c and hot water, cook the food, and turn the a/c back on.

Is this typical of the drill?

Seems strange coming from an all-solar sailboat with propane heat, hot water, and cooking.

Should I covert to propane, pass on this boat, or eat cold food?

Thanks
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This was the setup on my boat when we got her. Basically the boat was set up to be plugged in. Period.

Great, if your going to cruise like that, but pricey if not.
Probably the only area I really underestimated how much I would convert and still am.

I just hated the idea of running the generator on any day I ran the main engine.

See psneeld's comments
 
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psneeld said:
Again some live aboard advice will be different than non-liveaboard...adjust accordingly.
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Exactly. Admittedly, my perspective is influenced by being not just a full time liveaboard, but doing so out on a mooring. Even after we stopped full time cruising, we would anchor out for a week to 10 days non-stop. So some of these power management drills would become extremely tiresome to say the least. Ann is much, much less interested in such gymnastics than I. As in: zero. I liked that I could go on a business trip and leave her on the boat out on the mooring very happily and hassle free.
 
caltexflanc said:
Exactly. Admittedly, my perspective is influenced by being not just a full time liveaboard, but doing so out on a mooring. Even after we stopped full time cruising, we would anchor out for a week to 10 days non-stop. So some of these power management drills would become extremely tiresome to say the least. Ann is much, much less interested in such gymnastics than I. As in: zero. I liked that I could go on a business trip and leave her on the boat out on the mooring very happily and hassle free.
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George - In your and Ann's position it is only correct to have electric management in as brainless/simple state as possible. I enjoy managing things aboard. But, Linda never stays alone on boat, such as Ann does... soooo...I get to play, with all I want to. :thumb:
 
When living aboard with guests and family running around, using appliances and trying to cook and shower and everything else under the sun....the last thing I want to do is play 20 questions on what can be used when and what cb needs to be flipped and is it the red one under the battery charger...etc...etc..

No thanks....if it can be plugged in...I want it to just work without my intervention.

Maybe for some it is like hand steering....but do anything long enough or have it pull you away from what you want to do and we will see just how much fun the hobby of load shedding is.

Obviously there are times at anchor on the inverter or even just managing one circuit it is going to be a juggle...but I just don't want to do it at the dock. The boat is my house and being a spoiled American I want the boat to act exactly the same.
 
Most inverters do not have "load assist" this is a Victron perp. Most have "load shedding" but that is way different.
 
>No thanks....if it can be plugged in...I want it to just work without my intervention.<


The larger boats (measured in meters not feet) solve the problem with a 100 or 200a dock power hose.

Only a few marinas have this size service , so expect $5.00 to $10.00 per ft per night PLUS metered electric.

>Most inverters do not have "load assist" this is a Victron perp.<

The Trace 2440 has this feature for the past 3-4 decades.
 
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The discussion of power management and the women on board has struck a chord with me. I am aware that my wife is "concerned" that she will overload the system and hasn't after many years become comfortable with what will and will not overload a single circuit - or frankly the concept of circuits.

Bay Pelican has been set up to live at anchor and doesn't have power limitations except when the generator is first turned on and the water heater, both chargers and the refrigeration are at maximum draw. The other time is when the water maker is in its last 30 minutes on 12 volt power.(Right before I turn the generator on.) During these times it is not a good idea to turn on the electric tea pot (1,000 watts). Yet Deb will ask every time she wants tea if it is OK to turn the tea pot on. The other constant issue is the use of two appliances at the same time, usually tea pot and toaster. Works fine but not on the same circuit. Never will get that concept across.

Amusing issue is the reaction when both tea pot and toaster are on at the same time and our large voltage meter in the galley drops (temporally) to 11.8 or so. Of course this isn't OK if the water maker is on as it will shut down, but that one condition seems to get lost in a general reaction.

After this posting I am thinking of doing a little more to have written guidelines as to what is OK, e.g. galley is one circuit, saloon cabinet is another, etc. Perhaps this will help.
 
Let's see now...

I'm contemplating getting a marine electrician to completely re configure my 34' tri cabin Tollycraft boat's entire electric system/workings. I'd have every piece of electric service magic currently available installed. At conclusion my boat would be as well electrified as our home... maybe even better! Co$t - $10,000 to $18,000!

Or maybe I'll just relax and enjoy it as it currently is, all original and working fine... especially by employing a bit of thoughtful/careful power management.

I'll sleep on this a couple nights before making my decision... Let's see now... what do I currently believe my decision may be?? Hummm....

:popcorn:
 
Bay Pelican said:
The discussion of power management and the women on board has struck a chord with me. I am aware that my wife is "concerned" that she will overload the system and hasn't after many years become comfortable with what will and will not overload a single circuit - or frankly the concept of circuits.

Bay Pelican has been set up to live at anchor and doesn't have power limitations except when the generator is first turned on and the water heater, both chargers and the refrigeration are at maximum draw. The other time is when the water maker is in its last 30 minutes on 12 volt power.(Right before I turn the generator on.) During these times it is not a good idea to turn on the electric tea pot (1,000 watts). Yet Deb will ask every time she wants tea if it is OK to turn the tea pot on. The other constant issue is the use of two appliances at the same time, usually tea pot and toaster. Works fine but not on the same circuit. Never will get that concept across.

Amusing issue is the reaction when both tea pot and toaster are on at the same time and our large voltage meter in the galley drops (temporally) to 11.8 or so. Of course this isn't OK if the water maker is on as it will shut down, but that one condition seems to get lost in a general reaction.

After this posting I am thinking of doing a little more to have written guidelines as to what is OK, e.g. galley is one circuit, saloon cabinet is another, etc. Perhaps this will help.
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OMG, Marty - Another one of the foibles in married life! But, ain't life grand! :D
 
When I get the new 50A breaker panels, instead of having just the galley outlets and all others just on 2 circuits I am splitting up the boat into 5 or 6 with one dedicated outlet in the galley for electrical high powered, long term appliances like the micro or toaster oven.

One main reason for the upgrade is the 110 system is typical Taiwan. See Dave's thread on his ugly plug and mine isn't too far behind. So when you add safety to convenience and subtract out the cost of repair from upgrade, and for me there is no labor costs, so my costs are between $2-3,000. That includes all the power cords, and inlets plus fresh outlets and circuit breakers.

Sure any one circuit can still trip and the whole boat still only gets a bit over 12,000 watts...but it will act more like a house than a rustic cabin.

The less instructions I have to write down or discuss, the quality of boating rises...for me...I don't mind being captain, engineer and cabin boy all rolled into one, but my goal is to become equal time tourist instead of constantly on watch crew.

Then again, spoken like a long term liveaboard....
 
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psneeld said:
When I get the new 50A breaker panels, instead of having just the galley outlets and all others just on 2 circuits I am splitting up the boat into 5 or 6 with one dedicated outlet in the galley for electrical high powered, long term appliances like the micro or toaster oven.

One main reason for the upgrade is the 110 system is typical Taiwan. See Dave's thread on his ugly plug and mine isn't too far behind. So when you add safety to convenience and subtract out the cost of repair from upgrade, and for me there is no labor costs, so my costs are between $2-3,000. That includes all the power cords, and inlets plus fresh outlets and circuit breakers.

Sure any one circuit can still trip and the whole boat still only gets a bit over 12,000 watts...but it will act more like a house than a rustic cabin.

The less instructions I have to write down or discuss, the quality of boating rises...for me...I don't mind being captain, engineer and cabin boy all rolled into one, but my goal is to become equal time tourist instead of constantly on watch crew.

Then again, spoken like a long term liveaboard....
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And, a much appreciated one to boot! errrrr boat!!! ;)
 
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SORT-OF LIKE PUTTING YOUR ELECTRICAL SYSTEM ON AP:smitten:
 
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