Lehr 9.9 won't plane

hollywood8118 · Oct 13, 2014

manyboats said:
rClark246,
Yes.
The outflow of water aft of the transom is not parallel to the boats keel, bottom or horizon. The water has been pushed down by the boat and is in the process of rising up (or leaping up may be more accurate) immediately after it leaves the bottom of the boat at the transom. It's close to parallel to the horizon but not.

So for the prop it's most efficient w the engine tilted very slightly up ... w the top of the engine slightly closer to the bow. One should tilt up also to compensate for the angle of attack of the hull and slightly more for the rising water.

If one's boat is trimmed badly (as many or for some types most) w too much angle of attack the hull has so much drag that extreme OB tilt angles are needed to reduce the hull drag enough to achieve a planing attitude and speed. RIBs are so short and wide that a reasonable planing attitude is hard to achieve. Trimming the boat w weight and balance is preferable but if that fails draggy cavitation fins and power reducing trim angles may override all else and plane the boat.

If one has reasonable length to beam ratios. hard chines and reasonable trim weight wise planing is easily attained.

I think you have is backwards...
Most of the time if a dinghy has a high bow attitude the motor needs to be trimmed fully down.
The only way a motor needs to be trimmed up is way too much weight in the bow ( move aunt Bertha closer to the stern).
Remember that the hull is trying to climb uphill to get on plane.. trimming up causes the weight to be astern , causing the hull to squat further.

I thoroughly dislike 4 strokes that are under 30hp.. too heavy for most all dinghy's. We had a 10' Zodiac,10hp 2 smoke Yamaha with a wood bottom that coulg plane 4 adults as long as a couple would hang over the bow until on plane.. with 3 it climbed up without gymnastics.
HOLLYWOOD

N4712 · Oct 13, 2014

hollywood8118 said:
I think you have is backwards...
Most of the time if a dinghy has a high bow attitude the motor needs to be trimmed fully down.
The only way a motor needs to be trimmed up is way too much weight in the bow ( move aunt Bertha closer to the stern).
Remember that the hull is trying to climb uphill to get on plane.. trimming up causes the weight to be astern , causing the hull to squat further.

I thoroughly dislike 4 strokes that are under 30hp.. too heavy for most all dinghy's. We had a 10' Zodiac,10hp 2 smoke Yamaha with a wood bottom that coulg plane 4 adults as long as a couple would hang over the bow until on plane.. with 3 it climbed up without gymnastics.
HOLLYWOOD

Our 12' with a 40Hp 2 Stroke does gymnastics if someone doesn't sit in the bow, you have to gun it'll go vertical then plane out. We're thinking of adding one set of these fins on the lower unit or trim tabs.

ImageUploadedByTrawler Forum1413212149.677791.jpg

ImageUploadedByTrawler Forum1413212197.311583.jpg

Ski in NC · Oct 13, 2014

Yep, hard to plane means tilt engine down. As in top of motor further from the bow, prop thrust aiming downward.

If hard to plane with a load, try a prop with lower pitch. Pitch should be stamped on prop like 9x11, which means 9"dia, 11" pitch. Try a 9x10.

Tailfins added on also help getting on plane, especially if it tends to point skyward on the hump. Will lose some top end, but usually worth it on a dink.

LarryM · Oct 13, 2014

Has anyone seen or tried these "Lifters" from Maxi Marine? Looks like they increase the effective waterline length and provide lift.

Nomad Willy · Oct 13, 2014

Hollywood,
Read my post again and you'll see that's what I said.
The OB engine usually does need to be trimmed down to get the bow down utilizing the thrust angle to overcome the way too bow high attitude. But the prop is most efficient w it tilted up a tad .. moving parallel to water flowing through it.
I will agree w you totally about the heavy 4strokes. They should have made 15hp and under outboards exempt from the emission requirements. The heavy 4 stroke OB is a very bad mismatch in small light boats.

Larry M,
Now that's a trim tab that will probably work and probably w less drag than the small ones at high angles. Not seen that.

N4712 · Oct 13, 2014

LarryM said:
Has anyone seen or tried these "Lifters" from Maxi Marine? Looks like they increase the effective waterline length and provide lift.

Looks like a good idea, I'd just worry about accidentally knocking one off loading the dink on the boat deck.

psneeld · Oct 13, 2014

Another huge advantage of trim tabs for some/most dingies to me would be side to side trim...rarely is a dingy running level without a lot of shifting around.

High Wire · Oct 13, 2014

ben2go said:
I have seen this before.The cavitation plate on the motor should be 1 inch below the bottom of the transom and the engine should be able to tilt 15 degrees down to help push the bow down when on plane.

With a small outboard that planes, the AV plate below the keel distance is more 1/4 to 1 inch. 1-2 inches below is fine for boats that do not plane. Larger planing boats with higher hp and stainless props should be 0 to 2+" ABOVE the hull line.

LarryM · Oct 13, 2014

psneeld said:
Another huge advantage of trim tabs for some/most dingies to me would be side to side trim...rarely is a dingy running level without a lot of shifting around.

You are absolutely right, but in the case of Smart Tabs and Lifters, the side to side trim (or pre-load) is only adjustable dockside or out of the water. It works well once you find the right adjustment if the loading is about the same. The main advantage of the tabs though, is for getting and staying on plane, and keeping the ride level.

I'm a big guy and it does the job for me on a very small Avon RIB.

N4712 said:
Looks like a good idea, I'd just worry about accidentally knocking one off loading the dink on the boat deck.

As for the tabs getting in the way, I would worry about the Lifters too. The Smart Tabs can be retracted (lifted a little above horizontal) for stowage or launching.

Larry
M/V Boomarang

jjanacek · Nov 1, 2014

Our 9.9 Yamaha 4 stroke and our old 9.9 Merc 4 stroke planed the 10' Avon with 400#, no problem.

jleonard · Dec 3, 2014

I tilted my engine (15 hp 2 cycle) UP slightly (prop farther aft and higher) and it made my 10-4 Achilles rib plane much better. I also went down 1 inch in pitch and I only lost about 1 MPH. With 6 adults and a full 6 gallon tank it jumps on plane easily.

boatpoker · Dec 3, 2014

The anti-cavitation plate of the outboard should be about 1/2" below the bottom of the hull. This is extremely difficult to achieve with a long shaft on a dink ...... trade it in for a short shaft .... been there done that.

SCOTTEDAVIS · Dec 3, 2014

boatpoker said:
The anti-cavitation plate of the outboard should be about 1/2" below the bottom of the hull. This is extremely difficult to achieve with a long shaft on a dink ...... trade it in for a short shaft .... been there done that.

As he stated in the post a while back, he has a short shaft.

rif

boatpoker · Dec 3, 2014

SCOTTEDAVIS said:
As he stated in the post a while back, he has a short shaft.

rif

Sorry ... original post said "long shaft".

Lehr 9.9 won't plane

hollywood8118

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