Help with anchor types.

So I have two anchors on the bow.
The small anchor is, I think, an old navy anchor.
The larger (second picture) looks sort of like a Danforth but I am not sure hence this post. I wondered if it was just a knock off or if it has a type of its' own. Any thoughts? I am thinking that we might keep that one and upgrade the old navy one to something from a more recent century.

You're limited on anchor choices with your hull-sided system which won't accept modern anchors. Keep what you've got and worry about it if you have problems with an anchor which has been properly set. This research vessel has a similar issue.

BryanF said:

I am thinking that we might keep that one and upgrade the old navy one to something from a more recent century.

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You might want to peruse the archives as well as recent threads like "Chesapeake Bay Anchoring Test." I think you will find more information, facts, opinions, legends and myths about anchors than you ever thought it would be possible to write.

Holding the anchor in a hawse pipe is one o the great delights the modern boat assemblers have forgotten.

AS I see one Danforth secured , the question would be its size , at least a 35H would be required by looking at your boat , for overnight.

A 60H would be for anchoring most any time any where, but the shank might not fit up the hawse hole.

The other standard is a genuine CQR , the 60 holds in some bottoms better than the Danforth .

Although a huge PIA , if you approach another boater you night be able to borrow an anchor to see how well it fits.

IF no reasonable ,,,60+ anchor will fit , you will need an anchor crane (just some bent pipe) that allows the anchor to be brought aboard and lashed on deck.

Good hunting , having never to wash the mud or gunk off the anchor is a great blessing, most newer boats cant enjoy.

Give the cast heavy anchor to a lamp maker,

BryanF said:

So I have two anchors on the bow.
The small anchor is, I think, an old navy anchor.
The larger (second picture) looks sort of like a Danforth but I am not sure hence this post. I wondered if it was just a knock off or if it has a type of its' own. Any thoughts? I am thinking that we might keep that one and upgrade the old navy one to something from a more recent century.

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One is a Forfjord, which is a fine anchor and the other a Danforth type. The Forfjord is a very good anchor if sized correctly. You can figure out which you have by measuring the width and comparing to this chart: Forfjord Anchors - Products

What you have may be just fine, but were it me, I would put the biggest Forfjord on that your hawse pipe will allow and replace the old Danforth with a Fortress. The Forfjord's are inexpensive, compared to other anchors but are commonly used on fishing boats because they work.

The first one is a Forfjord. Quite popular with commercial boats in BC and Alaska.

Thanks for all the information. Looking on the first anchor and removing some paint did indeed reveal the cast in name Forfjord. According to the chart Delfin linked to it is a 145 lb. anchor. I would guess the danforth type is probably heavier based on the fact that it is hooked to larger chain and is physically larger than the Forfjord. The danforth type flukes are also cast in one piece not welded together.
Glad to have found such a knowledgeable bunch of fellow boaters. Thanks

Fishermen frequently choose equipment because more experienced fishermen in their midst use that equipment however the equipment must work fairly well or they'd ditch it quickly. And I know of no other boating community that is less enamored to the bigger is better philosophy. In Craig Alaska the fishermen clearly prefer the Forfjord almost to the point of worshiping the type/brand. The Claw is by far the next numerous anchor found on fish boats probably due to it's very economical price, availability and quick setting. The only other anchor that is very common on fish boats in Craig is the Dreadnought. The Dreadnought is similar to the Navy but w a very long shank. These are the only three anchors commonly seen on fish boats in Craig. Now and then I've seen a Danforth but never a "new gen" anchor.

Those here that believe in lots of chain are in the same stall as the fishermen however with the fishermen about half of the rode will be nylon line w about half of the fishermen. The chain will be almost always two different sizes and frequently three. The heaviest chain next to the anchor and the lightest next to and attached to the line. Their hydraulically powered anchor winches allow this. Their anchor chain is so heavy that it actually adds to the holding power of the very heavy anchor so high performance anchors aren't really necessary. They admit to dragging in 60 knot gales though. It would be like me starting my rode at the sea bottom w a 100lb Claw then 4' of 5/8" chain then 30' of 1/2" chain then 50' of 3/8" chain and finally 2 or 300' of 5/8" nylon line.

The Forfjord anchor is, performance wise very similar to the Claws except the Claws are high performance anchors when it comes to setting whereas the Forfjord is not.

The OPs Danforth type looks like a very well made anchor. One that I may not have seen before so am reluctant to comment on it's performance other than to say that it probably works about as well as a Danforth brand anchor.

BryanF said:

Thanks for all the information. Looking on the first anchor and removing some paint did indeed reveal the cast in name Forfjord. According to the chart Delfin linked to it is a 145 lb. anchor. I would guess the danforth type is probably heavier based on the fact that it is hooked to larger chain and is physically larger than the Forfjord. The danforth type flukes are also cast in one piece not welded together.
Glad to have found such a knowledgeable bunch of fellow boaters. Thanks

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I should think 145# would be fine for most conditions you'll encounter. If you feel like spending money, replace the Danforth with a Fortress but leaving things as is probably is best. After all, the boat has been using these hooks for quite some time and it still has water under it....

Don't replace the Danforth with a Fortress if you anchor in tidal or river currents, They are so light they take off like a kite and it's almost impossible to get them down where you want them i.e. that sand patch among the sea grass.

Delfin said:

I should think 145# would be fine for most conditions you'll encounter. If you feel like spending money, replace the Danforth with a Fortress but leaving things as is probably is best. After all, the boat has been using these hooks for quite some time and it still has water under it....

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Well, yes, mostly, but. The PO passed away long before I got the boat. I have pretty much a full history in terms of who designed it who built it and who owned it. But as I examine each system I find that each previous owner has a signature in terms of how things where done. Like all of us each had their strong suits. Some things on the mini ship as I have come to think of it make me shake my head. A telephone system to the two cabins and the engine room from the pilot house??? When I can stand at the helm and look down the ladder into the engine room. Well, O.K. but I think I can live without that. An oil pressure gauge in the engine room but not at the helm station- that has to change. So as I look at each system I ask myself questions. Sometimes, like with air controls, I have experience with them but not on boats. So, I ask questions. With anchors, well given 99 boaters it seems likely that I might find 2 who think the same on anchors but I thought I would ask. Long and rambling way of saying... I am asking if in the past was this or that a good choice. What do other people with different experiences think of what ever I am looking at. So, as I said in another post, there will be lots of questions over the coming months and thank you everyone for taking the time to answer my questions.

And if anyone wants a REALLY cool WW 2 era phone system for their boat - with wiring diagram do let me know. I have one.

BryanF said:

And if anyone wants a REALLY cool WW 2 era phone system for their boat - with wiring diagram do let me know. I have one.

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Only if it has a crank.

And weighs 60#.

BryanF said:

Thanks for all the information. Looking on the first anchor and removing some paint did indeed reveal the cast in name Forfjord. According to the chart Delfin linked to it is a 145 lb. anchor. I would guess the danforth type is probably heavier based on the fact that it is hooked to larger chain and is physically larger than the Forfjord. The danforth type flukes are also cast in one piece not welded together.
Glad to have found such a knowledgeable bunch of fellow boaters. Thanks

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So you bought her. Congrats. I followed her on YW. Did not have the guts to offer.....I was afraid they would accept and I would have a job. She is beautiful with massive potential...I just loved her but she just scared the hell out of me. Good luck with her, she can be very special with some work.... I. Work I was not willing to make the commitment to at 67 years old.

Yes, we bought her, and yes she needs some work but the bones are solid. 1/4 inch plate round bilge. A work of art from a day long gone. Massively built. At about 50 feet she weights 104000 lbs. And not full of fuel. Way too much fuel tankage at well over 3000 gallons. I think closer to 4000. But a low hour engine and gear box and an amazing amount of stuff that works. Very little that does not. Although I will admit that I have sometimes been weeks working out how to turn something on. A custom designed electrical system like no other. I think that it will make a fine cruiser but it is a project for sure. Modern and up to date- hell no. But neither am I. Will it take us pretty much anyplace we want to go? I think so. And if we get stuck out in some not so nice weather. Well she spent about 10 years in Alaska 5 of them hauling fuel out of Kodiak so I think (reading the log book) she has seen some weather and didn't sink. So, Mule, while I am sad you love the boat and had to pass I am also happy you did for I am having too much fun!!! I worked out how to turn the tape deck on today. And I found a spare sea cock. I think it weights about 50 lbs. And after much debate I have removed the Loran C. Bryan in Portland well Astoria actually

And a couple of pictures

BryanF said:

... (reading the log book) ...

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Did the previous operators log anchorages? If they anchored a fair bit and never reported problems with those anchors, I wouldn't spend any time thinking about replacing them. You've got more important things to worry about, like getting decent upper and lower helm chairs!

Oddly enough while I have a chair in the lower helm station I do better standing for long periods than I do sitting for long periods.
And yes they did log some anchorages and some 40 to 60 knot gales. But I still worry that there are better choices. But maybe not.

BryanF said:

Well, yes, mostly, but. The PO passed away long before I got the boat. I have pretty much a full history in terms of who designed it who built it and who owned it. But as I examine each system I find that each previous owner has a signature in terms of how things where done. Like all of us each had their strong suits. Some things on the mini ship as I have come to think of it make me shake my head. A telephone system to the two cabins and the engine room from the pilot house??? When I can stand at the helm and look down the ladder into the engine room. Well, O.K. but I think I can live without that. An oil pressure gauge in the engine room but not at the helm station- that has to change. So as I look at each system I ask myself questions. Sometimes, like with air controls, I have experience with them but not on boats. So, I ask questions. With anchors, well given 99 boaters it seems likely that I might find 2 who think the same on anchors but I thought I would ask. Long and rambling way of saying... I am asking if in the past was this or that a good choice. What do other people with different experiences think of what ever I am looking at. So, as I said in another post, there will be lots of questions over the coming months and thank you everyone for taking the time to answer my questions.

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The telephone is a sound powered phone. Old requirement for backup if your engine controls go down someone can shift below at engine. No electric is needed for the phone to work. Some bigger boats had a crank to ring a bell at different stations.
Old stuff I bet it still works, adds class and shows Roots.
Don

BryanF said:

So I have two anchors on the bow.
The small anchor is, I think, an old navy anchor.
The larger (second picture) looks sort of like a Danforth but I am not sure hence this post. I wondered if it was just a knock off or if it has a type of its' own. Any thoughts? I am thinking that we might keep that one and upgrade the old navy one to something from a more recent century.

Click to expand...

The one on the top is a fordjord safety anchor. Alaska fisherman all had them.
I don't know if it is all they had or just all the boats had that kind? Still make them in seattle. (Not sure of spelling)
I had one on my old north sea trawler and never used it much. There is still a lot of them around. If you every come by Anacortes I would love to see your boat.
Don

boatpoker said:

Don't replace the Danforth with a Fortress if you anchor in tidal or river currents, They are so light they take off like a kite and it's almost impossible to get them down where you want them i.e. that sand patch among the sea grass.

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I would suspect that doesn't apply so much to the larger Fortress models. Given the FX-125 weighs about 70-lbs... I wouldn't expect it to sail too much...

I think I'd be inclined to investigate whether a Fortress might be better than the existing Danforth... but actually changing might be dependent on whether a replacement Fortress would actually be larger than the existing Danforth. Or if the different fluke angles might be an advantage. If not, maybe no advantage to Fortress.

The optional 45° fluke angle on the Fortress might or might not be useful. Better than the Forfjord in mud? If so, maybe permanently set the Fortress to the 45° angle? Or perhaps the 32° angle might be better than the Forfjord in some other substrate? (I have no insight into the Forfjord's strengths or weaknesses...)

Otherwise, changing the Fortress angle on the fly doesn't look like it'd be very easy in that particular installation...

Neat boat!

-Chris

I have to agree on Boatpoker with this one...it's the very reason I had several friends get rid of theirs in all sizes...

The specific gravity of aluminum is only around 2.7 depending on the alloy. No matter heavy the anchor is...if it sized up proportionately...they all still tend to sail in a current without a lot of chain.

I still think Fortresses are great anchors...I'm just not betting on one for emergency use..and as a single engine guy...my anchor has to have my trust for setting when I need it even more so than just when it suits me.

If it were me I'd keep the Danforth type but I see the opening at the fluke tips is quite wide. Higher chance than most to jam a rock between the fluke tips. I have an Danforth type that you'd probably really like but it was made by a salvage company. If your Danforth type works fine and dosn't snag rocks I'd keep it. If not I'd find the mother of all Danforths for a replacement.

As to the Forfjord I personally don't like them. I had one and couldn't get it to set where my Danforth set easily.
I think they also have a tendency to penetrate w one fluke and not the other. Unless the bottom is very very uniform one fluke would be very likely to get ahead of the other and soon one fluke would be straight down and the other straight up. Kind of like a kedge. So if it were my boat I'd ditch the Forfjord and put a Claw in it's place. The Claw fits in a Hawse pipe. Well if the dia is big enough.

Not long ago they installed the anchors on the Susan Gael. First time I'd seen a Claw in a hawse pipe.

These older designs of anchor still work, but there are some better alternatives if you can fit them on your boat easily.

This is an Admiralty Stockless anchor (a relation of the Forfjord from a similar era) dragging on a Super-yacht. Notice the clouds of substrate produced by the dragging anchor.

The anchor concerned was several hundred kilograms, but has not even managed to rotate horizontal. Modern designs do much better.

The fishermen in Alaska don't think so ... for what ever that is worth. Marin said he saw some in lower BC but I've never seen a new gen anchor on a fish boat in AK.

Generally speaking I think the new anchors have more holding power but are less dependable. With an increase in anchor size staying w an old anchor could be a better mousetrap over time. But the increase in dependability (if it exists) would come w a small weight penalty. People here seem not to worry about 50 to 100lbs (and more) of extra anchor chain to make their modern anchor perform but I think universally older anchors are not so dependent on chain. So perhaps the overall performance per pound of rode (including the anchor) may be higher .. w older anchors like a Danforth or Claw.

My first new gen anchor held us solid for a day and a half in a 50 knot gale but when deploying it the new gen anchor would set less than 50% of the time. I know most new gen anchors do much better than that but there's a reason most people use older design anchors ... probably because they work. It's not that simple though. But they all work .. those that have stood the test of time. Every anchor has it's weakness but the old ones have no secrets.

I have old anchors and new ones ... and appreciate both.

>People here seem not to worry about 50 to 100lbs (and more) of extra anchor chain to make their modern anchor perform but I think universally older anchors are not so dependent on chain.<

Mr OGG , inventor of the Danforth initially used them with NO CHAIN .

A few years later the chain was added when they began to be accepted by White boats.