Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

Wxx3 said:

Well said Paul

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AP is my friend and I know how to turn her on and off. I am alone often and I love boating. So I use my trawler. If I sat at home thinking of all the bad that that could happen or waiting for a second or third or maybe 6 crew members. I sell the boat and take up skydiving

I had an AP on my previous boat but I didn't have Chris w me then.

But now that she is I don't miss it at all. But Willy is pleasant to steer. When it's calm I can (after a few corrections) establish a course that she will maintain for several minutes. Willy does "chine steer" so if I go out on the port side she'll turn a bit to stbd. Just like a kayak.

I agree w Scott that the helmsman is handicapped as a lookout.

I use the auto all the time in the ICW....no crab pots, no grounding, no collisions...as I posted earlier....a person has to be smarter than the equipment they use...and know when not to use it...but it can be used a lot more if you know how to use it, when to use it and get comfortable with it...

Much like 3M 5200.....it's only as bad as you make it out to be....

psneeld said:

I use the auto all the time in the ICW....no crab pots, no grounding, no collisions...as I posted earlier....a person has to be smarter than the equipment they use...and know when not to use it...but it can be used a lot more if you know how to use it, when to use it and get comfortable with it...

Much like 3M 5200.....it's only as bad as you make it out to be....

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I use the AP Follow up function which allows me to steer with the little know rather then the big wheel. Or if it's a long straight run I just follow a course and add increments to course change when needed.

I'm with Scott on this one. I use the AutoPilot all the time, technically, even when docking the boat, since I'm using the Jog Lever, which tells the autopilot which angle to hold the rudder at. It's much easier than cranking that big wheel back and forth....

thank you all that understand and are comfortable with APs....

....and so is the rest of the professional, informed world....the holdouts just haven't been there yet.

but then again I'm no gentleman as has been pointed out in the thread earlier....

Boydski said:

I'm with Scott on this one. I use the AutoPilot all the time, technically, even when docking the boat, since I'm using the Jog Lever, which tells the autopilot which angle to hold the rudder at. It's much easier than cranking that big wheel back and forth....

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And your boat hasn't sunk or grounded!?!!?

rwidman said:

I hope you can understand that using an autopilot with other boats nearby is very dangerous. Using an autopilot on many portions of the AICW will have you grounded in no time. Using one in an area with crab or lobster pots will have your prop tangled in line pretty quickly.

Before you buy your boat, leave the dock and flip on the autopilot, I hope you will take the time to learn about boating and safe operation of your boat.

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Good advice. Autopilots are great but can be dangerous when misused. I compare them in many ways to cruise control. Great on the open road but in tight traffic not so.

There are times the Autopilot is great by itself. Other times it should be off and hand steering. Then, in between, use it but keep hands on the wheel and be ready to take over at any moment. Most have the functionality to allow you to take back over instantly, some even refer to it as a "dodge" function.

BandB said:

Good advice. Autopilots are great but can be dangerous when misused. I compare them in many ways to cruise control. Great on the open road but in tight traffic not so.

There are times the Autopilot is great by itself. Other times it should be off and hand steering. Then, in between, use it but keep hands on the wheel and be ready to take over at any moment. Most have the functionality to allow you to take back over instantly, some even refer to it as a "dodge" function.

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I'll give you the nod on this but only because you are used to much greater speeds than the rest of us....at 6-8 knots like many here....driving without the AP even in traffic is tedious as you are travelling so slow.

Sure there are extremely crowded places and times on the ICW...but if you are in "your lane" so to speak...90% of the time you are SUPPOSED to keep course and speed...what better way than with the AP...just be ready to override it if someone else can't follow the rules of the road.

At 6-8 knots...there's very little that's "dangerous" in the ICW....at least for the experienced.

At 6 knots...it takes something like 10 seconds to go a bit over 100 feet (a bit over 2 boat lengths)...in 10 seconds, I can leave the flying bridge, head for the galley, grab a coke and be back at the main helm to disconnect the AP and steer around a buoy.

Dangerous???? Speed kills...but so do trawlers...they bore you to death if you are the helmsman.

psneeld said:

I'll give you the nod on this but only because you are used to much greater speeds than the rest of us....at 6-8 knots like many here....driving without the AP even in traffic is tedious as you are travelling so slow.

Sure there are extremely crowded places and times on the ICW...but if you are in "your lane" so to speak...90% of the time you are SUPPOSED to keep course and speed...what better way than with the AP...just be ready to override it if someone else can't follow the rules of the road.

At 6-8 knots...there's very little that's "dangerous" in the ICW....at least for the experienced.

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I agree. But when at slow speeds in narrow or crowded areas still closer to being able to take the wheel than when 20 miles offshore with nothing in sight. On the ICW I wouldn't go below to use the head if traveling alone.

And you're right about tedious and difficult to maintain a straight line. Amazing when we think we're going perfectly straight how we're often going back and forth a little.

Using the autopilot doesn't mean you're not at the helm.

I use the autopilot 90 percent of the time. It allows one to be more observant and less fatigued. When the situation warrants, Otto is relieved. ... Find the AP helpful even in twisting rivers/sloughs.

psneeld said:

I use the auto all the time in the ICW....no crab pots, no grounding, no collisions...as I posted earlier....a person has to be smarter than the equipment they use...and know when not to use it...but it can be used a lot more if you know how to use it, when to use it and get comfortable with it...

Much like 3M 5200.....it's only as bad as you make it out to be....

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Obviously your experience and mine differ and you've had 40 years more on the water than I have but there are places on the ICW where following the channel on the plotter would have me travelling over land. I have also negotiated many "mine fields" of crab pot floats where it's impossible to travel in a straight line without hitting them and difficult to zig zag among them, even at seven knots.

There have been reported collisions where a boat on autopilot has run down an anchored or drifting boat and I personally have had a couple experiences on the water where I suspect the boat headed straight for me was on autopilot.

Yes, it's a tool but like any tool it should be used at the right time and place and carefully.

That's all I ever said...in addition to that it CAN improve safety irf you know how to use it....

plus no one ever said leave it hooked to a chartplotter in the ICW...it will just follow a mag/true course once pointed (which IS the way I mostly use it)...

To even remotely infer that it can't or shouldn't be used a lot just shows the level of confidence a captain has in using a "tool"....one of many in their bag of tricks....

If you use it for more than a couple of minutes on the AICW with no problems, well, you just might be one lucky SOB.

Barpilot said:

If you use it for more than a couple of minutes on the AICW with no problems, well, you just might be one lucky SOB.

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Not at all...very easy at slower speeds... certainly not at all times or in all places...

but.... as not only me but more than a couple have expressed here...and plenty of others that I know and have read about...it is certainly usable more than not if travelling at trawler speeds.

Lucky??? Nope..just know how to use the tools at our disposal...

Do you use it going up the Napa River?

My father was a professional mariner for over 50 years. Ship captain, San Francisco Bar Pilot. He always said that if you don't trust your instruments, throw them overboard. He, however, would never have used autopilot on the ICW. There is a place for everything. Most of the ICW, however, isn't. Just as easy to run aground at 6kts as 16. It's just that the landing is a little softer.

Barpilot said:

Do you use it going up the Napa River?

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Yes, every time.

probably thought a sextant was cheating too....

plus my statements are about the AICW...not the Napa....

So then you just plot a course on your chartplotter and interface to your autopilot?

Barpilot said:

So then you just plot a course on your chartplotter and interface to your autopilot?

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no..read closer....

post #73 in particular

My statement about the Napa River wasn't addressed to you. It was addressed to Mark Pierce. Being from the City, I have a few thousand hours on the Bay and its tributaries in addition to a like amount of the ICW.

psneeld said:

probably thought a sextant was cheating too....

plus my statements are about the AICW...not the Napa....

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If you've been on the Georgia ICW than you've been on the Napa and then some... plus about 150 miles.

The AICW is the California Delta, Petaluma "River"(it is actually a short tidal slough) and Napa River on steroids. If you love and know how to navigate one then you'll love and know how to navigate the other. Delta dogs who die and think they have gone to heaven are actually on the ICW.

No plotting. Use AP buttons for one-degree or ten-degrees adjustments at a time.

We have gone through Georgia so many times (and hate every mile of it) that we now go outside, weather permitting. I've never seen so many switchbacks in all my life.
I may be wrong, but I don't think that the Napa and Petaluma are technically part of the "Delta" area. I would think that that would begin about Benicia going east, north and south. But then, I haven't lived in California for many years.
I forgot to mention, we used Oriental and New Bern as our base of operations while we cruised the east coast from Nova Scotia to the Bahamas for 5 years. So, yes, we are quite familiar with the ICW.

Curently working in Brisbane, AU, on to Seoul at the end of the week. As stated previously we removed the autopilot from our boat when we got it for several reasons, and have not had any reason to install another one for several reasons.

In the islands in the PNW and on up the coast into BC, we find hand-steering anything but boring. We quite enjoy it, and we find that it does not limit keeping a lookout at all. Not at 8 knots.

I have nothing against autopilots-- we used one all the time when out fishing in Hawaii. But up here, we would be constantly making corrections to the autopilot to avoid stuff in the water, and most of the headings we hold we rarely hold for more than about 15 minutes given our always-changing course legs through the islands.

If we had one we'd use it, particulary on the few longer stretches like across Bellingham Bay (5 miles) or the Georgia Strait. But again, we'd be changing heading fairly frequently to avoid stuff in the water, so other than turning a knob instead of a wheel, it wouldn't be that different than hand steering.

We know a few people who have autopilots on their boats and they say they rarely use them other than across the few longer stretches of water they encounter. And.... like us at our helm, they are having to make frequent adjustments to avoid logs or eelgrass mats or whatever.

If we boated in more open waters with longer course legs and less debris in the water I know an autopilot would bring several benefits.

So I think its value is based primarily on where one boats, and the nature of the "terrain" in which one boats. They're certainly dirt simple to use. It's more a question of whether or not it adds a significant value to running the boat. For us, we don't think it would. But as I say, if we had one again on the boat we would most likely use it for those times when it would be useful. But those times are few and far enough between to keep one off our "to do" list.

So, as usual with most things having to do with boats, there's no one-size-fits-all answer when it comes to the value of an autopilot. For us, we'd rather put the cost in the fuel tanks.

Marin said:

Curently working in Brisbane, AU, on to Seoul at the end of the week. As stated previously we removed the autopilot from our boat when we got it for several reasons, and have not had any reason to install another one for several reasons.

In the islands in the PNW and on up the coast into BC, we find hand-steering anything but boring. We quite enjoy it, and we find that it does not limit keeping a lookout at all. Not at 8 knots.

I have nothing against autopilots-- we used one all the time when out fishing in Hawaii. But up here, we would be constantly making corrections to the autopilot to avoid stuff in the water, and most of the headings we hold we rarely hold for more than about 15 minutes given our always-changing course legs through the islands.

If we had one we'd use it, particulary on the few longer stretches like across Bellingham Bay (5 miles) or the Georgia Strait. But again, we'd be changing heading fairly frequently to avoid stuff in the water, so other than turning a knob instead of a wheel, it wouldn't be that different than hand steering.

We know a few people who have autopilots on their boats and they say they rarely use them other than across the few longer stretches of water they encounter. And.... like us at our helm, they are having to make frequent adjustments to avoid logs or eelgrass mats or whatever.

If we boated in more open waters with longer course legs and less debris in the water I know an autopilot would bring several benefits.

So I think its value is based primarily on where one boats, and the nature of the "terrain" in which one boats. They're certainly dirt simple to use. It's more a question of whether or not it adds a significant value to running the boat. For us, we don't think it would. But as I say, if we had one again on the boat we would most likely use it for those times when it would be useful. But those times are few and far enough between to keep one off our "to do" list.

So, as usual with most things having to do with boats, there's no one-size-fits-all answer when it comes to the value of an autopilot. For us, we'd rather put the cost in the fuel tanks.

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Thus one of the biggest AP attributes....not much different...the big difference is no over steer and if your attention is snatched away for a few moments by ANYTHING...and if you know about how many degrees you needed to turn to be safe...that's where you will wind up instead of a turn that keeps on going.

again...not APs are not necessary...but properly used makes manning the helm much more precise and with less risk from a moments inattention...but again...only if you are at that level...

Not a personal statement of how Marin runs his boat...just using the post to point out a good point.

Due to the constricted SF Bay/Estuary and Delta waters, I'm frequently adjusting the AP's course. In its more open waters it's rare to go fifteen minutes without making an adjustment.

My AP is not interfaced to the chartplotter. KISS principle. Just use +1, +10, -1, -10 buttons as needed while monitoring the plotter and traffic. The first mate likes it and that suits me.

We always keep watch 24/7 although at night it's 2 hr shifts. But even with AP, radar and a watchman we still almost ran straight into a submarine coming out of Juan de Fuca. He was forced to submerge (better him than me!). It was a strange story but obviously my guy at the helm at the time was not paying attention.