Delfin
Grand Vizier
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2010
- Messages
- 3,820
I don't know...I thought Rocna's comments were a good illustration of how some companies won't let a bit of data get in the way of a persistent marketing meme.
Fine Art of Anchoring
- Thread starter Alaskan Sea-Duction
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
MurrayM
Guru
Well, I don't know about you guys, but I went to several schools for Fine Arts and I don't recall an anchoring course ever being offered. Sculpture, ceramics, drawing, painting, design, art history, etc, but no anchoring.
Interesting concept though...how would one anchor in the style of Jackson Pollock? Edvard Munch? Salvador Dali?
Interesting concept though...how would one anchor in the style of Jackson Pollock? Edvard Munch? Salvador Dali?
Nomad Willy
Guru
The advantage of the Mantus roll bar in mud is that it's longer and presents more roll bar to the surface and thus is less likely to sink into the mud enough to prevent the anchor from setting. But then after setting the longer (bigger) roll bar reduces holding power as does the roll bar in any case. Not to misunderstand me is the fact that everything except the fluke reduces holding power. Shanks, stocks, ballast, roll bars and anything else that is not fluke reduces holding power. But not equally and many non fluke appendages add to holding power but none are as efficient at holding power as the fluke. However you've never seen an anchor that is 100% fluke as a rode attached directly to a fluke would not control the anchor sufficiently to do it's job. That's why I like the XYZ. It has less hardware attached to control it than any other anchor so for a given weight in steel the XYZ will have a larger fluke and as long as there is enough control to make it behave it will have more holding power. There is much more to it such as the shape of the fluke ect ect. The first sentence is the answer to your first question Brian. The rest is just thinking in text.
Your question about the Mantus and Supreme setting better than the Rocna can be answered in several ways. In your test it only about setting in Chesapeake mud. The Mantus fluke is extremely sharp and I'm guessing the shank angle or throat opening is wider. Have you seen the video from Mantus of some dude w a line about 12' long held chest high pulling along a Rocna on a beach? Well I'm sure the height of his hand and thus the end of the line is such that combined w the length establishes a level attitude of the anchor preventing it from getting a purchase on the beach. Maintaining tension on the line insured that the fluke tip would just skid along w/o any tendency to dive down ant set. A rather dramatic demonstration showing (incorrectly) that the anchor is worthless. Ironic in that Rocna dragged a CQR along a beach in much the same way to have the same affect. But the Mantus did better in your test because the RB didn't sink into the mud as much as the Rocna and Supreme. The Supreme did better because the whole shape of the back of the anchor (including the fluke and RB) is more round and the anchor has a lower CG. So the tendency for the Supreme to roll right side up is greater and the resistance to do so is less. Enough greater in your test to set consistently. Remember someone saying a fellow somewhere cut off his Supreme roll bar and the anchor set fine 95% of the time. The few failures may be due to the way he deployed the anchor. In time I'll have more on this when I whack off my Supreme RB but I intend to leave 2" of RB sticking up on each side at the fluke.
The above is my opinion only and I have no comment on Rocna's marketing meme, ground hog day or schools of fine arts. However I did minor end in art.
Oops ... I did ramble on a bit. That's what happens when you ask for my opinion.
Your question about the Mantus and Supreme setting better than the Rocna can be answered in several ways. In your test it only about setting in Chesapeake mud. The Mantus fluke is extremely sharp and I'm guessing the shank angle or throat opening is wider. Have you seen the video from Mantus of some dude w a line about 12' long held chest high pulling along a Rocna on a beach? Well I'm sure the height of his hand and thus the end of the line is such that combined w the length establishes a level attitude of the anchor preventing it from getting a purchase on the beach. Maintaining tension on the line insured that the fluke tip would just skid along w/o any tendency to dive down ant set. A rather dramatic demonstration showing (incorrectly) that the anchor is worthless. Ironic in that Rocna dragged a CQR along a beach in much the same way to have the same affect. But the Mantus did better in your test because the RB didn't sink into the mud as much as the Rocna and Supreme. The Supreme did better because the whole shape of the back of the anchor (including the fluke and RB) is more round and the anchor has a lower CG. So the tendency for the Supreme to roll right side up is greater and the resistance to do so is less. Enough greater in your test to set consistently. Remember someone saying a fellow somewhere cut off his Supreme roll bar and the anchor set fine 95% of the time. The few failures may be due to the way he deployed the anchor. In time I'll have more on this when I whack off my Supreme RB but I intend to leave 2" of RB sticking up on each side at the fluke.
The above is my opinion only and I have no comment on Rocna's marketing meme, ground hog day or schools of fine arts. However I did minor end in art.
Oops ... I did ramble on a bit. That's what happens when you ask for my opinion.
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High Wire
Guru
Approximately??? That's +/- 2 feet
Nomad Willy
Guru
They said the depth averaged 27'.
psneeld
Guru
Approximately??? That's +/- 2 feet
Hey I'm more of a Christopher Columbus type...West Indies...East Indies...12,500 miles amongst friends...what's the diff???
who needs stinking WAAS GPS...
drink more rum and navigation seems a lot easier, even if it's not..
That's the point I was making on another thread. Coming from my decades personal experience with Danforth and Danforth design anchors; set into many bottom types on both coasts. However, my input at that time was rudely discarded. I ceased input thereafter. Allowing attrition time needed to work its magic, as it now most certainly has!
Again I say: Fortress Anchors clearly appear to be the basic Danforth design on steroids.
Art
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ranger58sb
Guru
Probably depends on how close they really were to that "approximate" location...
-Chris
Anchor Brian
Senior Member
We had five different "datums" or starting points for each series of tests. To insure that every anchor had a fresh sea bed, the research vessel Rachel Carson returned to the datum and then the pulls were made in an "azimuth" formation (image below).
The depth of the water was 26-28 ft.
Psneld, we recently exhibited at the 5 day US Sailboat Show in Annapolis, and the local drink of choice is a Painkiller with Pussers rum, and it is often served at after show hour parties on the docks.....although there are some exhibitors who don't wait that long
. Deadly.Attachments
Anchor Brian
Senior Member
Cafesport, please contact us and we will replace the damaged parts for free, the only cost will be for shipping & handling. No need to send back or exchange the damaged parts.
If you would like to pick up the replacement parts at the Ft. Laud. Boat Show this week, then that's fine, just let me know what you need. We are setting up tomorrow (Tuesday) and I can bring them with me. We are in booth 201 which is in one of the entrance tents at the Bahia Mar location.
That said, I am not sure that you will want to carry around FX-125 parts, which can be pretty cumbersome, at the show, and parking nearby can be hard to find and $$$. Please send me a PM and let me know.
Thanks,
Brian
ranger58sb
Guru
So you were somewhere to the north or south of the exact coordinates, yes? Closer to Solomons, or on the Lexington Park/Pax River NAS side?
I thought it might be interesting to see what the charts say (if anything) about the bottom, wherever you were, as a kind of following to a comment Scott made sometime back...
-Chris
Anchor Brian
Senior Member
Chris, you seem to know the local area well, and an image is below which might help to identify the location of the testing area for you.
The captain showed on his charts that the bottom was designated as "soft mud."
Brian
Attachments
ranger58sb
Guru
Ah, got it. Yep, about 1000 yards NW from where I plotted the earlier coordinates. Depths more like what you said, and yep, nearest substrate markings there say "soft" too.
I'm not as familiar with it down there as I am up closer to Annapolis, but I know "soft" up here often includes soup
But then, too, many of our nearby creeks aren't marked at all, so it's often a matter of local knowledge. For example, the several nearest to us are Almshouse Creek, Glebe Bay/Creek, Harness Creek, Aberdeen Creek, and the bifurcated Crab/Church Creeks. Only one is marked for bottom make-up on the chart, and that's Glebe Bay: marked "soft" but I also know it to be covered with leaves and/or grass (or at least it was, last time we anchored in there). The other ones range from hard mud in a very few places to moderate to soft mud to soup (Church and Crab Creeks).
-Chris
MurrayM
Guru
In the style of Salvador Dali.
Steve
Dude, you get mega bonus points for that one!!!!!!!!
- LOL
Delfin
Grand Vizier
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2010
- Messages
- 3,820
I believe that particular model Rocna was part of a failed marketing campaign to take the guesswork out of whether the shank would bend or not. These were sold pre-bent, and did away with the uncertainly.
They were, however, quite useful for anchoring around corners.
caltexflanc
Guru
Once again, I urge avid anchorers to put one of these into your arsenal. Coat it in silicon grease or light wax and attach to monofilament. You'll learn to know very quickly the nature of the sea bed.
