Slight mixing of diesel and hydraulic oil

I have two 20 liter jerry cans I use when I have to work with either diesel for the engines or the hydraulic oil for the stabilizer system. When I switch between the two fuels/oil I have been rinsing the jerry cans out with a a half liter of the new fuel/oil and then proceeding. Not a great rinsing but it should get rid of the bulk of the residue lining the jerry cans.


Can't imagine my Lehman or the Westerbeke being sensitive to a slight amount of hydraulic oil, but what about the stabilizer system, would traces of diesel affect the stabilizer cooling system/pump.

Any thoughts.

No.

In fact Tony Athens, the diesel guru over on boatdiesel, sometimes recommends diluting hydraulic oil with diesel to reduce the viscosity and improve turning forces in hydraulic steering systems- about 3 parts hydraulic fluid to 1 part diesel. So you are never going to come close even if you don't rinse the jugs.

David

I have been guilty of sloppy container handling with lube oil and fuel oil. As long as the lube oil ends up no more than a few percent of the fuel, I never worry about it. I don't let fuel get into engine lube oil, but no worries in hydraulic oil.

Diesels will happily burn a bit of most any oil. Some folks are using old fry oil so don't sweat a little clean hydraulic oil.

There was a system, from Cummins IIRC ,that burned used lube oil for trucks.

Marty

Do you routinely have to add oil to your stabilizer system?

sunchaser said:

Marty

Do you routinely have to add oil to your stabilizer system?

Click to expand...

No. I did have a leak in the pump seals for a few months, but not now.

However, I have had to drain the 10 gallon hydraulic oil tank a couple of times in order to work on the hydraulic oil heat exchanger, as well as to fix the seals on the hydraulic pump.

Thanks to all for the replies.

Why not just buy another set of jugs?

rwidman said:

Why not just buy another set of jugs?

Click to expand...

Indeed, that has become quite popular lately.

bayview said:

Indeed, that has become quite popular lately.

Click to expand...

Expensive, and can be a lot to carry around. Hard on the back, so I'm told. Not a problem I'm likely to have, though.

djmarchand said:

No.

In fact Tony Athens, the diesel guru over on boatdiesel, sometimes recommends diluting hydraulic oil with diesel to reduce the viscosity and improve turning forces in hydraulic steering systems- about 3 parts hydraulic fluid to 1 part diesel. So you are never going to come close even if you don't rinse the jugs.

David

Click to expand...

That's VERY interesting David. I have a system that requires a bit more effort than I'd like to steer the boat. Three turns L to L though and "lock" is 45 degrees from center line. So movement of helm to rudder is like 2 turns L to L. This is one of the reasons Willy does well in following seas .. a fast rudder. I just filled and bled my steering system but I'll definitely remember that in the future.

Do others do that and what would be the first negative side effects? Foaming at the pump? Seal failure ......... .

Ski:

Job opportunities would increase.

djmarchand said:

No.

In fact Tony Athens, the diesel guru over on boatdiesel, sometimes recommends diluting hydraulic oil with diesel to reduce the viscosity and improve turning forces in hydraulic steering systems- about 3 parts hydraulic fluid to 1 part diesel. So you are never going to come close even if you don't rinse the jugs.

David

Click to expand...

Before I take advice from some guy on the Internet I would check with the manufacturer of the equipment. My system has some pretty specific requirements for hydraulic fluid.

Bayview,
I worked on multi fuel engine's in Rolls Royce R&D and we tried used lube oil in various configurations for military diesels and there was always a problem with a reaction to Paraffin/Diesel/Petrol/Veg with the used engine oil we tried, a lot of the used engine oil turned to a heavy viscous sludge in each case after some months use which resulted in thorough tank cleaning.
I would strongly advise against it.

Thanks Irish. IIRC the Cummins system only allowed 5% used lube oil.

Edit here it is:
https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/qsol/products/newparts/centinel.html

Hyd. in the diesel is not much of a problem. Diesel in the Hydraulics can be no matter what your diesel guru states. Typically you will have problems with your pump and cylinder seals.

I'm with Ron, I'd check with your stabilizer manufacturer. I know Naiad is a stickler about the purity of the oil, wanting it run through a filter (I used a coffee filter) if possible when adding. I certainly wouldn't apply some idea for a steering system to a much more expensive and complex stabilizer system.

A common problem at a sawmill I used to work as was that the forklift drivers would add hydraulic fluid in the wrong hole. It being the diesel fuel tank! Forklift would start riding rough when it starting burning the hydraulic fluid. The diesel mechanic told them tough luck and go away and burn it off. No damage to the engines

ulysses said:

Hyd. in the diesel is not much of a problem. Diesel in the Hydraulics can be no matter what your diesel guru states. Typically you will have problems with your pump and cylinder seals.

Click to expand...

My experience too. Seal failure and contaminated hydraulic fluid is a very common problem in the marine industry. Mixing different fluids in multi-use containers is risky.

Bay Pelican said:

I When I switch between the two fuels/oil I have been rinsing the jerry cans out with a a half liter of the new fuel/oil and then proceeding.
Any thoughts.

Click to expand...

Doing as you describe would be just fine. A trip in a large earth moving fleet's fuel and lube truck would convince most that your "contamination" is pretty insignificant in comparison.

At least this isn't a thread asking if marvel mystery oil should be added to a TX.

Primarily what it comes down to is the type of "O" rings and seals that may be in the hydraulic system. If you have the common EPDM (Ethylene-Propylene) they are very sensitive to aromatic hydrocarbons (diesel fuel is an aromatic hydrocarbon). They will get overly spongy then dry out and fail. Neoprene is similar. I do own a fleet of earth moving equipment and have experienced this first hand. Also in laying ductile iron water pipe we were required to wrap the pipe in plastic to protect the neoprene gaskets when digging through soil that was contaminated with old leaking and often long removed gas station tanks.
I would suggest checking with the mfg. on the type of O rings and seal material.

Marty

Are your containers rinsed and empty prior to the next use? As I read your procedure they are. If so, I fail to see how adding hydraulic oil to a clean and empty container is an issue. Are your stabilizer rams or associated block and pro portioning valves leaking?

My conclusion when going from hydraulic to diesel I don't need to rinse the jerry cans. when going from diesel to hydraulic put in a half liter of hydraulic oil, rinse the jerry can and just dispose of the hydraulic oil used to rinse the jerry can.

Bay Pelican said:

My conclusion when going from hydraulic to diesel I don't need to rinse the jerry cans. when going from diesel to hydraulic put in a half liter of hydraulic oil, rinse the jerry can and just dispose of the hydraulic oil used to rinse the jerry can.

Click to expand...

That's really easier than buying extra cans? Do you just dump the hydraulic oil down the sewer or do you take it to a hazardous waste disposal site?

Well when I built up my hydraulic steering system Harbor Marine recommended ATF and that's what I've used. But already I'm using trans fluid for a hydraulic system. One would think I should be using hydraulic fluid.

Is there any suitable hydraulic fluid that would have a considerably lower viscosity than the ATF? I notice there's various kinds of hydraulic oils but there's various kinds of lube oils that may be suitable for the same engine.

I suspected in the first place that there may be seal problems but it would be nice if I could stick my finger in the helm spoke and twirl it around quickly full port to stbd. But it's a habit of mine ... to think of better ways to do things.

rwidman said:

That's really easier than buying extra cans? Do you just dump the hydraulic oil down the sewer or do you take it to a hazardous waste disposal site?

Click to expand...

My waste oil goes to a hazardous waste site. Most anchorages have these sites, in the French islands they are more convenient than ATM machines. I keep a separate five gallon jug just for waste and dump it whenever convenient or full.

Living at anchor the space taken up by two additional 20 liter jerry jugs would be too valuable. If they were not so expensive outside of North America I would throw away one of the two I have and buy a pail or something whenever I needed to change or transfer my 10 gallons of hydraulic oil. Prices $36 US in St. Lucia, $44 in Martinique.

Why not just put the "clean" hydraulic oil in the fuel tank ? instead of giving it away for someone else to use as fuel. Ignorance and old wifes tales are rampant on this subject. On the subject of diesel in the steering fluid, it is a much smaller oil volume in the system but I dont think a small amount would hurt. I wouldnt purposely use diesel to thin it. If your steering is to quick or hard a bigger cylinder would help.

Bay Pelican said:

My waste oil goes to a hazardous waste site. Most anchorages have these sites, in the French islands they are more convenient than ATM machines. I keep a separate five gallon jug just for waste and dump it whenever convenient or full.

Living at anchor the space taken up by two additional 20 liter jerry jugs would be too valuable. If they were not so expensive outside of North America I would throw away one of the two I have and buy a pail or something whenever I needed to change or transfer my 10 gallons of hydraulic oil. Prices $36 US in St. Lucia, $44 in Martinique.

Click to expand...

That makes sense. Thanks.