NJ to Ft Lauderdale Trip

caltexflanc said:

It's more like a 75nm detour to Norfolk if you are just steaming along and not stopping to smell the roses, which for us was the whole reason for going the Chessie as we were never confronted with the weather situation Bill has. Really just an extra day at trawler speeds, assuming you are able to make the same speed on either route. In my opinion, weather allowing, once you are outside might as well go all the way to Oregon Inlet if it is in good shape...

Click to expand...

You brought up an interesting point, George. The straight run from OC, MD to Oregon Inlet is abut 155NM. So, this leaves only few options, from what I see on AC. Go back 6-7NM to Roanoke Isl (with 3 small marinas on the southern end of the Island). Or continue heading south for another 30-35NM to Hatteras, or even another 10NM further to Ocracoke?

Well, it seems like the inlet is not advisable:

"Oregon Inlet, about 2.5 miles southward of Bodie Island Light, is entered over a shifting bar. A lighted whistle buoy marks the approach; other buoys, not charted, are frequently shifted in position to mark the best water. A fish haven is about 4.5 miles southeast of the lighted whistle buoy. The inlet, used by local fishing vessels, but not recommended to strangers, requires continuous dredging; it deepens with northwest winds and fills in with northeast winds."

On my past trips south and back north, despite the fact that I was trying to save time and skip C&D route, I still enjoyed the VA Cut. After being out on the open from mid point of NJ to Norfolk, it's nice to have a little break, especially when the weather is not playing very nicely. However, I'm always keeping my options open for new ideas.

Even a bigger deal was the USCG closed the inlet to commercial traffic a couple weeks back (maybe all traffic but I've really never heard of that...just closings for conditions).

Last I heard boats were running it...so I'm not sure the status as the guide type web sites didn't have anything after the original "closure" statement.

Manteo had a relatively large area for free docking...no services other than a water hose.

You really have to call the CG @ OI to get the very latest. The folks at OI Fishing Center (a place you can often overnight and closest "marina" to inlet) or Pirates Cove (nice marina home to a lot of high end sportfish boats) are also good as is Towboat US. Sometimes folks can time it to come follow one of the charter boats in if the inlet is passable but tricky (like when the best channel through the bridge is not the main channel). The docks on the far southern end of Roanoke are in Wanchese Harbor, usually associated with one of the boat yards, not really "marinas per se) there are a few places to eat around the harbor, like Fisherman's Wharf on the west side which is an old school southern seafood house we enjoy, and a great seafood store on the north end. Wanchese harbor is home to several custom boat builders and boatyards, and a large commercial fishing fleet. Officially known as the Wanchese Seafood Industrial Park.

If coming in the inlet, going all the way up to Manteo is really out of the way. If coming from the Va cut, then Manteo is a nice stopover, cute town with good eateries, historical sites and some shopping. The city marina and Shallowbag Bay Marina are both nice places if you are not willing to rough it at the "free" pier (which can a bit sketchy for a larger boat) and/or the small anchorage is full. You do need to call the marinas to get pilotage instructions from the main channel, they are both super friendly.

Oregon Inlet is for very experienced mariners with gobs of local knowledge. I ran it in much better conditions than today. Still didn't like it. It along with Hatteras inlet is having some real shoaling problems. The Hatteras to Ocracoke ferry route behind the inlet has had to be moved to a much longer route inside. I know going inside from Norfolk to Morehead City is time consuming, but that is what I do. Beaufort Inlet at Morehead is a class A inlet.

http://wunc.org/post/alternate-route-hatteras-ocracoke-ferry-becomes-permanent

http://hamptonroads.com/2014/04/oregon-inlet-shoaling-problem-deepens

When OI is good, it is very good, piece of cake and a pretty ride, lots of big boats using it. First time, I wondered what all the fuss was about. But it changes quickly.

This site is useful the latest surveys of all key NC waters. Here is the latest survey for OI as of the 6th:

http://www.saw.usace.army.mil/Missions/Navigation/HydrographicSurveys/ManteoOregonInlet.aspx



Hatteras makes no sense regardless of condition as it is a long way around vs OI. And Beaufort is REALLY the long way around unless you are coming directly from, say, Martha's Vinyard.

Sailor of Fortune said:

Personally, I'd bring him out for the offshore run for attitude adjustment. An hour or two may just have you heading up Del bay for a more reasonable passage. Nothing like a few things getting thrown around the cabin for dramatic effect. He will drop the "ancient mariner" persona quick.

Click to expand...

Well, as much as I tried to avoid it, that is what happened. After a 8 hour run in at times real 6 foot plus on the nose at 18 - 20 knots, we had a major come to Jesus meeting. All seems to be on the right track as of today.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Well, as much as I tried to avoid it, that is what happened. After a 8 hour run in at times real 6 foot plus on the nose at 18 - 20 knots, we had a major come to Jesus meeting. All seems to be on the right track as of today.

Click to expand...

So where did you end up? Ocean City? Or by 18-20 you meant speed of boat and are now in Norfolk?

caltexflanc said:

So where did you end up? Ocean City? Or by 18-20 you meant speed of boat and are now in Norfolk?

Click to expand...

Yes boat speed. I should have made that more clear.

We made it just inside the tunnel breakwater a bit at Bay Point Marina. This morning replaced a 50a master breaker, fueled up and headed out to Norfolk and the ICW. Made it to Centerville bridge and called it a day do to the bridges rush hour restrictions.

Ran the Pamlico Sound route in amazingly calm conditions, fueled up in Oriental and headed into Morehead City for the night. On to Bald Head Island on the outside tomorrow and then on the outside once again to Charleston the next day if all goes well.

Came across a sailboat that was obviously out the channel that called me on the radio all flustered to ask me to move way over on may side of the channel so he could get passed the low spot he had just run aground on twice. Didn't have the heart to tell him if he would just look behind him and see that he was out of the channel if he lined up the two green markers he was outside of he would not be having that problem. Since the real channel was over 10' deep at that point. I'm sure there will be a new warning on AC and/or on the Cruisers Net about this imaginary new trouble spot.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Since the real channel was over 10' deep at that point. I'm sure there will be a new warning on AC...about this imaginary new trouble spot.

Click to expand...

Next time you pass by a hazard marker, ask yourself if you'd prefer there to be too many of the hazard markers...or not enough of them. The community corrects them all over time.

I'd sort of rather see an extra one that gets removed and perhaps makes me slow down to be a little extra careful.

Jeffrey S said:

Next time you pass by a hazard marker, ask yourself if you'd prefer there to be too many of the hazard markers...or not enough of them. The community corrects them all over time.

I'd sort of rather see an extra one that gets removed and perhaps makes me slow down to be a little extra careful.

Click to expand...

Calm down Jeffery. I love cruising with AC. It was just a joke.

Jeffrey S said:

You owe it 5 reviews now!

Click to expand...

AC is closer than you think, even on the forum !

Capt.Bill11 said:

Calm down Jeffery. I love cruising with AC. It was just a joke.

Click to expand...

Sure, I know - I wasn't heated-up about it. But it's a serious discussion question. Given the imperfect nature of how data like this can be collected, is it better to have too many hazards or not enough?

Existing crowd-source wisdom says to put in all data and let the crowd sort it out. It creates a few false positives in the short term but they get quickly eliminated.

I gave a presentation this weekend at the Krogen rendezvous about some tools that are coming to help verify hazards like this - they'll collect and report your depth and position as part of the hazard/anchorage submission and automated verification feedback and viewing. It's all meant to reduce false positives and provide better automated data capture.

When no one is accountable for the information, what difference does it make? Kind of reminds me of what they say about alcoholics.. "One's too many and 10 is not enough". Weaving around through hazards that may or not be bogeymen IMO puts me no better off, and I would say worse, than using charted and LNM info and navigating for myself with a little radio help from my friends up ahead.

Personally I, and a growing number of people, have begun to shy away from "crowd sourced" opinions in general. First of all, again, no one is accountable. Second, I do not particularly want to run with the crowd and do what most everyone else does and like what most everyone else likes. What I want for a hotel, restaurant, anchorage etc is a description of it by someone who has some accountability, or OMG!, go check it out for myself just from the looks of it. Then I can decide if it is something I'd like to try for myself; to us, that's the adventure in life. Now, I understand some large number of people want safety in the crowd, that's generally human nature. Even back in the day, you'd go into a big anchorage and next thing you know everyone coming in is clustering around the first few boats. To each their own.

On to Bald Head Island on the outside tomorrow and then on the outside once again to Charleston the next day if all goes well.

Click to expand...

I take it in at Masonboro, then back out to Baldhead? Weather looks halfway decent out there the next few days. Have fun!

ActiveCaptain

As new boaters ActiveCaptain has really flattened our learning curve. It was one of our most valuable resources in our recent voyage from Annapolis to Marco Island, FL.
Thanks to Jeff, Karen, and all who provide input.

caltexflanc said:

I take it in at Masonboro, then back out to Baldhead? Weather looks halfway decent out there the next few days. Have fun!

Click to expand...

We love Bald Head Island. Might be our favorite place on the coast of NC. But then we also love a few other places, so how about one of our favorites.

caltexflanc said:

I take it in at Masonboro, then back out to Baldhead? Weather looks halfway decent out there the next few days. Have fun!

Click to expand...

No, straight from Morehead/Beaufort Inlet to Frying Pan then around into Bald Head. Yes the weather looks very good for the run.

Thanks George

Here is some more video the ex few member shot.

http://youtu.be/nB13ouZMoE4

Just had one of those "bogeyman" trouble spots up near me.

Was out on a tow and had 2 cruisers heading south go by.

About an hour later one call the other and tells them he's aground, anchored with bow and stern anchors out and that the channel is "not navigable" at low tide.

So I call on the radio and tell the second trawler how to skirt the mark, put it directly on his stern and head for the middle of the next pair.

The guy aground calls out that can't be right and gets all cocky and asks "who is this?"....not wanting t get into a "who's who pissing match"...all I said was "a guy who runs that area all week"

I tell the second trawler just do it as he will have 4-6 feet of water...well...he slows, and takes my advice.

Sure enough I hear "hey...**** , I made it through with over 4 feet and just bumped once...can I do anything for you?

I had my chuckle, especially since cruiser #1 was more of one of the spaceship looking motoryacts at about 40 feet..and I never heard a call to either assistance towing company all afternoon so I'm guessing he wasted quite a few hours sitting there.

But in all fainess, that is a tricky spot and in the NJ intracoastal...you REALLY have a narrow channel to navigate. It's already been posted but always a great point.....if you ain't looking front and back and mentally drawing a narrow channel, maybe you aren't "in" the channel.

So if that spot got put in AC...I certainly could see it getting flak from many but strongly supported by others.

Jeffrey...any possibility of ever including or linking to a chartlet of a problem area that someone could have made notes on?...sure it sounds like a huge data storage problem...but if someone took ownership in a review, could they post a link to some online photo storage?

rclarke246 said:

As new boaters ActiveCaptain has really flattened our learning curve. It was one of our most valuable resources in our recent voyage from Annapolis to Marco Island, FL.
Thanks to Jeff, Karen, and all who provide input.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that.

I'm not sure where George gets his information. The fact is that use has been exponential. If there are people who are shying away from crowd-sourced information, well, those are probably the people you hear hailing TowBoat US. And as for being accountable, all comments give information about the boater providing the comment with some info. Users can be more anonymous but then their info should be taken a little less seriously.

There's a reason why NOAA is one of our licensees. They noticed (like us) that our data is generally about 2 months ahead of Local Notice to Mariners. We go through all 17 districts of LNTM's each week and add them to our data so we see that the latest warning about shoaling or missing aid is something we've already had for many weeks. NOAA used to use LNTMs to adjust charts including the magenta line. But our data was better. It's one of the reasons why the magenta line is staying - at least that's what they said in their press release when they specifically named ActiveCaptain.

Outside of ActiveCaptain, it's interesting to note that Google recently purchased Waze, a crowd-sourced traffic and street mapping company. I think the $1 billion shows a little about the quality and power of crowd-sourced data since it's the way that Waze works.

But if George doesn't like it, there's no gun to his head. And heck, I'll even help him if I see him aground along the ICW over the next couple of months as I meander down it myself.

psneeld said:

So if that spot got put in AC...I certainly could see it getting flak from many but strongly supported by others.

Jeffrey...any possibility of ever including or linking to a chartlet of a problem area that someone could have made notes on?...sure it sounds like a huge data storage problem...but if someone took ownership in a review, could they post a link to some online photo storage?

Click to expand...

If the spot is along the NJICW, I have a feeling there's already a hazard marker on it - do you have an approximate lat/lon, mile marker, or something descriptive about it's location? They say, never ask a question you don't know the answer to - but if the spot is bad, I have faith that we have it documented already.

ActiveCaptain's data is licensed to 40 companies and governments today. Companies use it in their own product to often display that data over nautical charts - even the AC website does that. What's coming next are the chartplotter product lines that are adding ActiveCaptain inside as well. Most will have options for quickly turning on and off data - you might want to run underway with hazards on and marinas off for example. Chartplotter integration is happening in a big way.

One of our goals is that the core set of ActiveCaptain data is designed to reside offline on the laptop, phone, tablet, or chartplotter especially when there is no internet access available. When you need to know "right now" what that hazard says, you don't want to hope there's a good cellular connection. We have hazards throughout the world where there aren't cell towers too - there are many hazards in French Polynesia, along the Alaskan coastline, and even some data in the Antarctic (boats need anchorages there too!). Having it all offline makes the access instantaneous and available so it can be relied upon.

So that offline requirement forces the data to be tight and compressible. It limits the amount of data and so we don't allow photos and video inside. But that's changing too - eBoatCards is designed to handle all media. It's all online and live and the linkages between AC and eBC are being added to allow you to find, let's say, an anchorage in AC and then see the 30 pictures recently added from boaters who were there. eBC likes media like blogs and video and it'll link those into the data as well. But eBC is all online in order to serve the much larger data in a reasonable way while still keeping the core AC data offline.

We've also written how eBC is being extended so that the categories of data to be crowd-sourced can be crowd-sourced. If someone wants to starts a database of ice cream parlors along the waterway, we have a way for them to do that. Others can then add to it and that data can be overlaid by all the licensees on their nautical charts or viewed on the eBC website. The databases can optionally have reviews too so a database about Canvas Repair might list every facility that does canvas repair and allow reviews to be collected. Most times, the quality of the work done is more important than whether they have a business license at a particular location.

So yeah, we listen to the thousands of comments and suggestions we get every month. We see clear trends, talk to our licensees, and then play "what if" games to figure out how to satisfy the need in an efficient way that will work to collect the information. We're still at the beginning of all of these capabilities.

Jeffrey S said:

.... What's coming next are the chartplotter product lines that are adding ActiveCaptain inside as well. Most will have options for quickly turning on and off data - you might want to run underway with hazards on and marinas off for example. Chartplotter integration is happening in a big way.

One of our goals is that the core set of ActiveCaptain data is designed to reside offline on the laptop, phone, tablet, or chartplotter especially when there is no internet access available. When you need to know "right now" what that hazard says, you don't want to hope there's a good cellular connection. We have hazards throughout the world where there aren't cell towers too - there are many hazards in French Polynesia, along the Alaskan coastline, and even some data in the Antarctic (boats need anchorages there too!). Having it all offline makes the access instantaneous and available so it can be relied upon......

Click to expand...

Having real-time and/or offline hazards/markers is probably the biggest item on cruisers wishlist.

Since I use my helm's electronics as primary nav tool, I have to spend at least couple of hours to analyze/plot my routes, cross reference AC hazards and manually mark them all on my plotter. This way I have the offline hazards available on the fly. I'd love to have a plotter that would integrate with AC's data.

In order to satisfy my real-time requirement, just as many others, I've purchased GARMIN's Blue Charts (in addition to Navionics Mobile App). I've always used Navionics App on my iDevices until I've learned that Blue Charts have real-time integration. While cruising along the coast, I'll have cell coverage at least 90% of the time. So, besides seeing manually added hazards on my plotter, having access to real-time hazards with details (on my iphone or ipad) helps tremendously.

Jeffrey, I can't thank you enough for making such a great product. I'd love to help in order to keep it's data as current as possible. As I cruise, I always try adding comments and missing info, including new hazards.

No, straight from Morehead/Beaufort Inlet to Frying Pan then around into Bald Head.

Click to expand...

If you took Frying Pan Slough, that's the long way. If you were "feeling lucky" and cut inside the slough, maybe close. I've never felt that lucky. Some friends of ours have a place on Bald Head we visit once or twice a year' you can walk to Cape Fear point from their place. Amazing amount of boat-stuff washes up, including hull sides, biminis, chairs, coolers, etc.

Alex F said:

Jeffrey, I can't thank you enough for making such a great product. I'd love to help in order to keep it's data as current as possible. As I cruise, I always try adding comments and missing info, including new hazards.

Click to expand...

That's the magic of it all. ActiveCaptain is just a framework for collecting and distributing data. The local knowledge, ultimately, comes from you and all of us who are out there cruising.

So really, thank you!