Pitting on Anchor Shank

I have enclosed a photo of the shank on my Manson Supreme anchor. Any ideas on what may be causing the pitting? The anchor is connected to 50' of galvanized chain and 150' of nylon rode.

Wow, I have a Manson Supreme and it doesn't look like that..... How old is it?

Assuming it is a galvanized anchor, bad galvanizing job is my educated guess. Have it sand blasted, pickled and re galvanized by a good shop if one is in your area. Galvanizing is a science and whether improper voltage, amps, poor prep, contaminated solutions who knows but maybe Manson has answer.

Frequent anchoring will wear the galvanizing off, but pitting like you have seems odd.

If it is SS,

Anchor was purchased new in July of 2011

Send some pics to the manufacturer. Something is not right.

We anchor for about two months straight in various locations. I have similar nodules crop up after about a week. I always thought it was something attaching but am reconsidering. I have galvanized chain and a Fortress. Hopefully someone can shed some light to both of us. Is it galvanic?

If you are seeing little raised nodules, it is probably baby barnacles. Especially if you anchor for an extended time. What I have are actually tiny pinholes in the galvanizing.

Thanks. Believe your right. When looking again at your picture It looks like a bad galvanizing job

>Galvanizing is a science and whether improper voltage, amps, poor prep, contaminated solutions who knows but maybe Manson has answer.<

This is flash galvanizing , good for house screws or nails.Arizona fence posts.

Marine Galvanizing is dipped in a molten vat , 3 times if you pay enough.

'Send a pic to manufacturer'


There's your best answer. A two year old anchor should not have galvanizing failure like that.

If you have not ground the surface or tried to modify the finish of it then they should stand by the product.

This is most interesting. I have a Manson Supreme as well and have a significant area of rust on the top of the shank. It occurred in the first month of use. I called Manson and sent them a picture. They claimed that the top of the shank must be hitting my bow roller and then the anchor flips overcausing the spot of wear. This is unmitigated BS. I am standing at the bow when the anchor comes up and this never happens. Manson refused to do anything about it.

I would post a picture but I'm anchored right now. When we raise the anchor I will post a photo. I hope Manson is watching this post. Howard

Just sent the email below to the VP Sales and Marketing at Manson. Let's see what happens.

Ned,

About a year ago I complained that my new Manson Supreme was exhibiting an area of rust on the TOP of the shank. I was told it was not a fault of the anchor but that the anchor must be rubbing on the bow roller when it is retrieved. I have watched the anchor come up 100s of times and this is not the case. We are full time cruisers and anchor all the time.

It's clear that you have a galvanizing problem. Please visit www.trawlerforum.com and view the thread "Pitting on Anchor Shank." Seems as though others are having a problem as well. Suggest you get ahead of the curve on this problem and offer a solution to your customers. Remember what happened to Rocna when their steel was substandard. Thank you, Howard Mason

Sent from my iPad

Manson will need your anchor ID number to chase down where it was built and the detailed galvanizing specs and procedure used. There should be proper documentation for the QA QC used for that batch of anchors.

There are several different ways galvanizing is done and associated cleaning and prep work. It is far more complicated than dipping a piece of steel in a molten bath of what may or may not be a proper zinc plating liquid at 460 degrees C.

Even though galvanizing does not last forever, a newer anchor like yours bears some attention from Manson. A interesting point is to ascertain if the same plating shop is used by Manson today vs say 4 years ago.

Greetings,
OK, I've got the wrong anchor BUT it isn't a Manson. Sometimes it's weird.... word association....Manson?
Well, there's Charles Manson...

...and who could forget Marilyn Manson...



Just sayin'

I have been in touch with Manson. They asked for more photos. I sent additional photos and am waiting for a response.

This should be good. Poor customer service will echo throughout this site for years to come. Let's see if Manson has their sh*t together.

As of now, I have no reason to suspect that they won't stand behind their product. The anchor itself has performed well on the Chesapeake bay (mud, mud, and more mud).

Manson thinks that this is caused by rocks (I anchor in the Chesapeake Bay, nothing but mud here), or electrolysis caused by the stainless shackle. Either way, they do not warrant any galvanizing failure on any of their products. They recommend I try a can of cold galvanizing spray, or have the anchor regalvanized.
They seemed to think I could get the anchor regalvanized for around $30.

BlueYonder said:

They seemed to think I could get the anchor regalvanized for around $30.

Click to expand...

At least we now know why the galvanizing failed after 3 years

1. The anchor was used
2. A Wal-Mart $30 galvanizing job was used the first time too
3. Paint is a good substitute for Manson's el cheapo galvanizing job

And straight out of the horse's mouth

Here's the reply I received from Manson Anchors. Guess I need a can of cold galvanizing spray from Walmart. Go figure.

Hi there Howard.

To clarify some things about galvanisation first. Galvanisation is a
coating, and additionally when applied to the shanks of the Manson Supreme
and Manson Boss needs to be regarded as the softer sacrificial coating that
it is. When galvanising if formed, there is a coating and also a Zinc Alloy
forms with the top layer of the parent/base metal the anchor is constructed
from.
Because high tensile steel is much much harder than it's mild steel
counterpart 250 Brinell Vs 120 Brinell it means that the Zinc top coating
becomes the meat in the sandwich far more than with an old generation
anchor.

The expectation is that your anchor is quite similar to the paint work on
the front of the car, it's susceptible to stone chips, and impact damage in
exactly the same way. Use the anchor more and it will be at higher risk. Use
it in rocky ground and it will be at higher risk of damage. It really only
takes on anchor episode where it hits some steel debris or a harder rock, or
even stone or boulder on the seafloor to cause damage to the galvanising
coating.

We galvanise thousands of anchors ever year. We use the best galvaniser in
New Zealand, and additionally we send hundreds back to be regalvanised from
our QA process which is extremely rigorous.

The seabed is a very tough environment. We have had two Superyacht anchors,
made from Lloyd's Register approved 316L anchor in seabeds where the 316L
corroded. The analysis was conducted on the plate by a leading Metallurgist
in the USA, and it was determined that it was nothing to do with the
material and it's to do with the seabed. 316L corrodes in certain saltwater
conditions.

This is why Manson cannot offer to warranty galvanising. We simply have no
idea what each anchor hits, is anchored in and the potential for damage is
really high that it's not commercially viable and we'd need to dramatically
increase the price of our product. An anchor could get damaged in one
situation, and then it could take months for the issue to arise. This would
then never be attributed to that incident.

Just as in your car, you have to check the paint on the front for damage and
if it's not mended it will continue to corrode and eventually rust. The
owner of an anchor should be expected to review the galvanising on the
anchor, and, remediate as required. Whilst we do all the QA possible so too
does the customer. When an anchor is purchased, the galvanising is fairly
straight forward to analyse visually. It's a what you see is what you get
scenario, if it looks good, 99.99% of the time it is good. Presumably you
saw nothing remiss when you purchased the product.

So, in relation to your enquiry below. Yes you've watched the anchor come up
100's of times, but have you watched the anchor hit the seabed every time
and been sure that it's not suffered impact damage on the way down, or hit a
piece of concrete or steel on the seafloor, it's impossible to say that it
has not. You yourself admit you've anchored hundreds of times. Heavy use,
means must higher risk of damage and wear on the galvanising coating. To say
on the forum that my email to you was BS is a little insulting as quite
simply it wasn't BS, I never lie to customers. I've seen good galvanising
and bad, and your photos were not due to bad galvanising. There was clearly
impact damage on the anchor.

The solution is firstly to topically spray your anchor, or, and should that
fail, after heavy use over a period of a few years to have the anchor
regalvanised. Chain will do the same thing over heavy use and require
regalvanisation. You as the user cannot have an expectation that the
galvanising will last forever, this is not founded on any principles of
galvanisation if you understand the process and the relationship that using
the metals in the construction of our anchors involve.

This is absolutely not at all related to Rocna building product out of a
material they knew to be below their advertised tensile strength. We have
always been clear with our customers over the last 40 years about the
expectations from galvanising. We would totally refute any inference
otherwise.

The pitting on the shank in that customers' situation on Trawlers forum we
have reviewed, sent to our supplier, and, this is inconsistent with the
problem being to do with the galvanising and likely more an isolated issue
due to the higher phosphorus and silicon levels in the high tensile steel
and nothing can really be done to avoid the very very occasional issues when
they arise. Note the anchor isn't rusting, it's just causing little pits
which can be filled with some topical treatment, as you'd do with stonechips
in your bonnet.

Thanks again Howard for your email, but it's important to inform you of the
real work expectations of high tensile steel galvanising, and, galvanising
itself as a corrosive protectant. It's important we match customer
expectations with the realworld situations and scenarios.

Warm regards
Ned Wood
Manson Anchors

So the galvanizing on anchors is meant to be sacrificial???

I wonder what he gets paid for such Bohemian Socioparapsycholgy.

I'm not impressed w Manson saying the pitting was caused by wear from the sea floor. I'm also unhappy about this in that I've recommended the Supreme to many people. If I had been Manson I'd at least send the customer $50 for re-galvanizing.

On the upside I've used aerosol spray galvanize w great success so it should take care of the problem. However it looks to me like some kind of electrolysis caused the pits or very small holes. Like the anchor was lowered over the side like a sacrificial anode and subject to stray current or perhaps a hot marina. But what would one be doing hang'in their anchor over the side? Perhaps the owners boat was anchored for a long time next to or actually in a marina that was hot.

Unless other Manson anchors come up w the same problem I'm going to assume this particular anchor has seen some very unusual treatment or usage. Perhaps it's just a glitch that got past Manson's QC. Something unusual obviously happened.

Any other Manson's out there have similar symptoms? Mine sure dosn't look like that.

Ned Wood

Your reply to the galvanizing issue covered the subject pretty well, but with two exceptions. First, to suggest your galvanizing process in no way suffers the same fate as Rocna's metallurgical build issues seems to raise a red flag about your galvanizing process when one wasn't needed. Second, maybe the anchor in question should have been one that was indeed rejected via the QA procedures you stated were in place.

To be clear, my background includes a degree in metallurgical engineering, active work history in the zinc primary and secondary business and front line work in a zinc galvanizing enterprise where about 50,000 tons per year of conduit were plated.

I fully well know there are several missteps and shortcuts in the zinc heavy metal (like anchors and chains) galvanizing business that can lead to QA/QC rejection visually as well as via sporadic non destructive testing. Maybe a hint or two on these product support and backstop procedures would be helpful.

Your anchors are great and obviously well received in the marketplace. Unfortunately in this day and age internet rumor and mongering raises a new challenge to quell innuendo and adroitly put down stupid stuff from guys like us.

Respectfully,

Sunchaser

manyboats said:

I'm not impressed w Manson saying the pitting was caused by wear from the sea floor. I'm also unhappy about this in that I've recommended the Supreme to many people. If I had been Manson I'd at least send the customer $50 for re-galvanizing.

On the upside I've used aerosol spray galvanize w great success so it should take care of the problem. However it looks to me like some kind of electrolysis caused the pits or very small holes. Like the anchor was lowered over the side like a sacrificial anode and subject to stray current or perhaps a hot marina. But what would one be doing hang'in their anchor over the side? Perhaps the owners boat was anchored for a long time next to or actually in a marina that was hot.

Unless other Manson anchors come up w the same problem I'm going to assume this particular anchor has seen some very unusual treatment or usage. Perhaps it's just a glitch that got past Manson's QC. Something unusual obviously happened.

Any other Manson's out there have similar symptoms? Mine sure dosn't look like that.

Click to expand...

Eric, as you know I was considering the Manson Boss. This makes me glad to have chosen the Ex-Cel. Even my Delta after anchoring in all sorts of bottoms (sand, mud, and coral rock) for 10 years shows no problem with the galvanizing.

Greetings,
OK, I'll admit it...30 Kg. Bruce. Probably 15years old at least. Only wear/rust is on tips and where the shank sits on the bow roller (stainless). NO pitting at all. Shank although weathered/dull is still galvanized. Just gave her 2 coats of Rustoleum Bright Galvanizing compound. The can says dry film contains 93% zinc. As others have said, yours seems to have slipped through QA unless, as Mr. mb suggests other Manson users have experienced similar pitting.

Don,
Yea I'm a bit glad you passed on the Boss ..... it looks a bit questionable now but some great anchors have looked questionable at times. My own favorite the XYZ looks bad in most of the anchor tests but I support one XYZ model anchor as it seems extremely well designed and I've had a 100% success experience w it. Most of my experience has been w the modified anchor though.

I think you would have been equally happy w the Supreme and I think Marin would have been pleased w the performance of a Claw if he had just gotten a bigger anchor.

The Boss may suffer a little like the first XYZ. They look a little bit alike and are definitely short. The SARCA is also short but seems to make the best of it ... maybe related to it's weight being well aft.

If there was anything wrong w Manson's galvanizing I'm sure we would have uncovered it before. But on the other hand if it was an extremely isolated occurrence (and I think it is) you'd think Manson could be a little more supportive.

I have seen similar pinhole pitting on galvanized anchors, boat trailers, turnbuckles, and even a $1.00 swivel that was on sale at Defender as a "blemished" product.

I can't say that it's something I would want on my anchor...but with no rust from the pin holes and seeing the same effect on many galvanized parts in service also with no rust...can't say I'd get too excited about it if I never saw rust in that area.

Hello, we very rarely comment on these boards, and I am only doing this to address this issue directly without having my emails posted up here and misconstrued.

We use a third party to galvanise our product, the best galvaniser in New Zealand. This company, along with all other companies willl not give us any warranties on any galvanising, so, inheriting the warranty becomes problematic and extremely subjective to the potential reason for the galvanisation to have been worn in places.

Firstly in response to Sunchaser, the reason the Rocna issue was raised was that I was replying to an email that raised it to me, indicating I needed to be in front of the issue. I'd welcome any feedback from you about our QA procedures, but, I do doubt that visually we'd have seen any difference in this anchor.

Secondly in response to Manyboats, I never said that the pitting was caused by the seafloor. I said, that the impact damage visible was likely from impact. Our supplier indicated he wasn't sure but said that it's possible it was caused by the higher Phosphorus and Silicon content in the high tensile steel. It's potentially a steel/galvanising relationship, they do interact with each other intimately.
I said that there are many things in seabeds which can cause impact damage, and corrosion damage, like an old sunken boat or piece of steel cast of a ship. just because an anchorfield is mud doesnt' mean there can't be other debris in it. Once the galvanisation 'seal' is broken things can start to be affected.

I would love to be able to warranty galvanisation. But, the major issue is that what a consumer feels is a galvanisation issue, is potentially more a maintenance issue. Galvanisation isn't a perfect problem. You have to replace varnish on a boat, because it degrades in sunlight, an anchor sits in the sun, is dragged along all sorts of debris, in all sorts of seabed rot, and i think it's a little unrealistic to expect the galvanisation to not be in any way affected by this treatment.

Donsan, galvanisation isn't exactly sacrificial, but the only two galvanised components on a boat are the chain and anchor. What does a zinc anode do?

We do our best every single day to make the best anchor product on the market, we strive to ensure it's a safe, reliable, well made product. To suggest otherwise is a bit gutting but any visit to our factory would show the lengths we go to and processes we have in place.

Commercially I am not quite sure how we can warranty galvanising, when any of our suppliers won't and we reject so many anchors because the galvanising isn't nearly perfect. LAstly, in over 17,000 Supremes sold, i've never seen this issue, which would actually suggest to me that it's something rotten/alkaline in the seabed that has reacted with the parent steel, and the galvanisation to cause this. Like I said, i've seen 316L corrode, that was not our issue, it's just 316L in the right conditions will corrode. Expectations need to be matched with what can happen in the seabed.

Lastly, I don't actually get paid that much, and I'm not sure what Bohemian Socioparapsycholgy is, I'm just trying to help a customer out. I also wasn't told my responses would be posted, which is slightly unfortunate, not that I would have replied any different, but it would have been a courtesy I would have extended to a supplier which had otherwise delivered a fairly good product.

Manson...thanks for the clarification...

I followed from the beginning...and have seen pin holes in areas of thick galvanizing in many places without even being underwater..don't know if it's the zinc or the underlying material causing it...but I wouldn't even go so far as to say it's "rare".

Many things are discussed here...and like most forums...most of it is thin air in hours or days as far as anyone taking info/posters seriously....hopefully the few get what they need and move on.