How many cruise very remote areas with single engine & no backup?

I do not want to start a single-vs-twin slanging match. I would just like to get information from LONG DISTANT – REMOTE CRUISING single engine trawler operators who DO NOT have any “get home” capability.

How many of you trawler guys head offshore more than 100 miles on trips of more than 500 miles with a single engine and no “get home” capability?

-or-

How many of you cruise in very remote areas, let’s say the closest diesel mechanic is more than 250 miles distant, with a single diesel and no get home capability?

I am a 40-year sailor who has done over 10,000 miles way off shore or in very remote areas. During that time I have experienced four (4) diesel engine shutdowns:

- two due to clogged fuel filters
- one due to broken fuel line
- one due to broken injector line

I’ve also had to shut down an engine when, in the middle of the night, we hit something that bent the strut that supports the prop shaft. We could turn the prop slowly to get into the dock but it was of no use to move the boat.

Each of the problems occurred in a different boat. Two of the shutdowns (filter & fuel line) occurred in serious seas where maintenance of steerage was critical to survival. A quickly unfurled headsail provided stability and some steerage, even in light winds and big seas.

In each case the problem was resolved within 20 minutes. Two of the engines did prove difficult to bleed and get the injectors working again and the sails were needed for over an hour.

We are now looking at 46 foot, or larger, trawlers. Most have a wing engine or a sailing rig (love those DDs) that would provide some ability to maintain steerage.

We have seen a number of very well respected trawlers that have a single engine and no “get home” capability. Given my experience, it is hard for me to understand how one heads off shore or into very remote areas with no alternative to the, admittedly rare, main propulsion failure.

SO – how many of you are cruising way out in the blue water or in very remote, i.e. no possibility of calling home for help, with only one engine and no backup?

I am not asking for opinions about single-vs-twin nor do I need to know about “get home” engines. I just want to know how many trawlers really go places with a single engine and no backup?

If you do not personally do offshore or remote cruising with one engine and no backup – do you know anyone who does?

two due to clogged fuel filters
- one due to broken fuel line
- one due to broken injector line

Mate, until recently when I fitted the ketch rig to my vessel I cruised some pretty remote places out here in the Great Barrier Reef in a single engine motor cruiser.
had only one engine malfunction and that was a fractured low pressure fuel line that was repaired on board with in a couple of minutes.
From the list above none of those problems should have occurred if the fuel system and pipe work had been maintained and inspected properly.
With good inspection ports and drain traps fuel tanks can be maintained in a very clean state.
Fuel pipes and injector pipes inspected frequently and I always carry some high pressure steel pipe and fittings of the required size. Hose and hose clamps for low pressure pipes.

As long as you don't go the way of electronic diesel engines and keep it simple it should never be a problem.
Double RACORs and a polishing system will keep the fuel in good condition and a good supply of filter elements as a final back up.
Diesel engine , air , fuel and water is all that it is about, Plus good maintenance.

In saying that I have now fitted a ketch rig as a back up and also fuel conserver.
Cheers
Benn

>REMOTE CRUISING single engine trawler operators who DO NOT have any “get home” capability.<

To be in danger 100 miles of blue water is not needed , the Harlem river is totally barren of anchor spots , concrete walled for most of its length , covered with bridges and bridge abutments , has a 3-4 K current , and the natives will not wait till dark .

Bay Pelican has a wing engine with a separate drive shaft, prop and isolated fuel tank and Racor.

Haven't kept records but clearly a majority of trawlers under 53+ feet visiting the Eastern Caribbean have a back up engine arrangements of one form or another. These are mostly Krogens and Nordhavns.

If I were to travel to the remote locations in the Caribbean with a single engine vessel without a back up system my preference would be with:

naturally aspirated engine
manual as opposed to electronic controls
rubber fuel lines (or the ability to work with copper)
fuel polishing system
keel which protects the prop
spare prop
replacement parts for everything on the engine including the starter

A major problem to face in the Eastern Caribbean is that there are so few motor boats (other than perogues) that it would be difficult to find someone who could tow a middle sized trawler. No commercial tow operations to speak of, and on most of the English speaking islands little coast guard support.

FF said:

>REMOTE CRUISING single engine trawler operators who DO NOT have any “get home” capability.<

To be in danger 100 miles of blue water is not needed , the Harlem river is totally barren of anchor spots , concrete walled for most of its length , covered with bridges and bridge abutments , has a 3-4 K current , and the natives will not wait till dark .

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And I lost power on my single engine trawler In the Harlem on my delivery trip luckily my second anchor held and I was able to bleed the fuel and get running.
I have also done several 500 plus mile trips but none have been offshore.

The key is maintenance.
If you have one propulsion source you do everything to keep it in pristine shape.
No rust anywhere on the engine, replacements for the major and minor failure points of the engine on board.. and the education to do the work, multiple racors and a electric prime pump, carefully monitor fuel taken aboard, multiple engine monitoring systems, choosing when and where you operate.
All these things combined help to promote safer voyaging.
HOLLYWOOD

Well, I have put several thousands of hours on both sailboat engines and trawlers and I have only had one failure that couldn't be resolved quickly- a trashed starter that couldn't be jumpered but fortunately this incident happened at the dock.

Meticulous maintenance wouldn't have helped that incident and wouldn't have helped the OP when his injector line broke. I am impressed that one poster actually carries high pressure tubing to repair such mishaps. I would never have thought of that one.

So, if you are going to cruise in remote places with a single engine, you have to have the skills, the tools and the spares to fix them yourself. But once in a great while all of the above won't help.

David

I have a twin, however I have had minor shut downs that would have been very uncomfortable with a single.
Total electrical shut down on a gas engine, Mercurser, circut breaker failure.
Lower circulating hose rupture, Detroit
Governor spring fracture and break, Detroit
High pressure injector line fracture spraying fuel forcing shut down, Cummins
Water pump impeller failure, freshly replaced new impeller that had been in storage for several years. Detroit
All of these occurred in remote locations in rough conditions that would have made life miserable if I couldn't have maintained some steerage.

Most engine failures are due to filter clogging or air loading, both can be handled by good tank and fuel system upkeep.

The next most common failures are seawater pumps, circ pumps, starters, belts, hoses and on some engines, the injection pump. It is a good idea to keep spares on board for these. CAV pumps poop more often than the oil lubed in lines, like Bosch, ND and Simms.

Drive plate failures are pretty common, if you have high hours you probably should replace before heading into the sticks.. Likewise input shaft seal on Velvet Drives.

A spare injector is not a bad idea, but most engines can run with one dead injector. Fuel line can be removed and diverted to a catch container, etc.

With the above covered, you are left with the basic guts of the engine which are very reliable. Especially a day or so into a trip.

Most failures occur after a period of layup. Shakedown trips are important!!

Does the Inside Passage, SE Alaska, West Coast of Vancouver Island, and Haida Gwaii count?

I cruise these areas on a single engine NT 37. Cummins 6BTA (mechanical diesel) with a full keel that protects the prop from most debris.

Spare parts include lots of fuel filters, spare coolant/oil/filters, injectors, belts, belt tensioner, idler pulley, water pump impellers (will carry spare water pump next summer), alternator, starter, various hoses...some others that I'm sure I'm forgetting.

The only part I've needed is the alternator. And the engine has never stopped running until I switched the key off.

I've cruised some somewhat remote places up the BC and SE AK coast.

Single engine. No backup. Full keel. Newer engine.

Several slow downs and one failure ...in Georgia Strait BC.
Was due to Teflon tape and other sealants coming loose and fouling the lift pump. I'm presently involved in a full bore project to make the system as perfect as I can. Sealant was carefully applied only to the upper threads of the pipe fittings and special hose clamps were installed in pairs on long hose barbs. Put in a new fuel pump and all new hoses on the supply side.

Now I've messed up the wiring and today (right now) I'm going to Seattle for confer w big mechanics in the sky .... up there w the religious dudes.

Going to drop in at Fisheries Supply to see the new Spade anchors.

I have run the Inside Passage twice from Seattle to Prince William Sound, both times in a single engine vessel and have never had an engine issue. Diesels usually quit because of fuel problems, so an annual filter change will head that off unless you get bad fuel somewhere or have tankage issues (water in vents or some such).

When you only have one engine, it gets very close inspections and you take extra precautions to make sure it stays reliable. I am almost never less than 100 miles from port, and my backup power is a 9' Achilles inflatable with a 6 hp outboard (tow job). I am never offshore more than about 40 miles (transiting) and there is seldom anyone around to offer a tow.

I don't have to go far to be remote, as I rarely see a another boat after I'm a few miles from the marina. We have no towing service, and the volunteer coast guard are few and far between. The immediate area consisted of a semi-protected gulf, and beyond that is the wild Southern Ocean.

When shopping for my current boat, backup power was certainly on my mind. I was mainly looking at twin engine trawlers that could handle rough water. Not easy to find with a limited budget.

I came across this motorsailer and decided that this may kill two birds with one stone. A trawler type boat with sails that give backup propulsion and act as stabilizers at the same time.

Well- I've put about 2000 hours on her so far, plus another 1000 or so under sail alone.
I've had two engine failures on my 30 year old Volvo, and the sails were no help on either occasion.

The first was when I set off after a week of waiting for the high winds to end. I soon discovered that there was zero wind but the seas were still very ugly. About 50 miles out I had overheating issues and had to shut down. It took about 6 hours to sort out the problem while rolling around in the rough.
Second breakdown was a starter motor that completely failed in the lock just near my marina. Dead calm again, so I used my emergency tiller to pump my rudder and sculled at 0.1 knots to a nearby dock.

Regarding the second line of reasoning for the sails - stabilization - the sails have saved my butt a hundred times. Having a rolly soft chined hull, the sails do a magical job of steadying things out.

Still waiting for backup propulsion to save my butt, but its comforting to know it is there.
Its also nice to use as a quiet alternative.

The top notch offshore designed boats such as Nordhavn or the Dashew FPB have twins or get homes if singles. Ditto another favorite, the KK 52. The early FPB 64s had no get home but quickly added it and retrofitted those that did not. A world cruising Northern Marine 76 (Star) that has recently gone through a major refit in Seattle added a very neat get home, the owner is about as astute a traveler as is out there.

The choice is yours. Your budget, maintenance skills and risk taking will provide the answer. BTW, I recently went through the same mental and boat bidding drill, all considered vessels were singles with a get home or twins. Offshore cruising with a single only can be done, but a very well tended engine and spare parts with knowledge is needed.

sunchaser said:

The top notch offshore designed boats such as Nordhavn or the Dashew FPB have twins or get homes if singles. Ditto another favorite, the KK 52. The early FPB 64s had no get home but quickly added it and retrofitted those that did not. A world cruising Northern Marine 76 (Star) that has recently gone through a major refit in Seattle added a very neat get home, the owner is about as astute a traveler as is out there.

The choice is yours. Your budget, maintenance skills and risk taking will provide the answer. BTW, I recently went through the same mental and boat bidding drill, all considered vessels were singles with a get home or twins. Offshore cruising with a single only can be done, but a very well tended engine and spare parts with knowledge is needed.

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And one thing that often isn't mentioned....stress...

If you are a person that controls stress very easily with no ill effects...heck yeah...single engine cruising is probably 90+ percent carefree.....how you deal with that 10% can be important.

Even twins isn't 100% carefree...but a lot closer than a single in my mind.

I run a single to Fl and back every year...I handle the stress OK...but that's because I cruise probably the most mindless cruising grounds in the world. Reasonable help is only a couple hrs away at most...and with a towing insurance policy/rider....most likely it will be free.

Yeah...when/if I venture past those easy-peezy cruising grounds...some sort of get-to-safety rig will be in place....

You could always go to a general aviation airport or forums and quiz some members of the flying clubs how they do it; those guys have some real motivation to not have engine failure.

Hey I flew single engine helo's from the Arctic to the Antarctic and every conceivable weather in between...and I was nervous...just like I am but to a way lesser degree with my trawler.

The only time I ever had a REAL issue was when a tail rotor gearbox went south when parked on an ice a little less than 400 miles from the North Pole...safe on deck...go figure...of course the long wait for the other helo to come get the crewman and me was the longest hours of my life.....

So well maintained gear...even if it was from the Korean War ...shouldn't scare anyone...but sooner or later if you do anything enough...that chance of something going wrong catches up.

A "little" stress does keep you on your toes!!

We cruise the inside passage all Summer. Have done so for over 20 years with a single engine DD 671. Lots of spares on board and a good repair manual. Fortunately when a rare problem has occurred it's been easily fixable (impeller, wrong fuel valve switched, sticky starter). I worry more about losing a generator. Touch wood the DD runs and runs!

Sounds like you need peace of mind. Buy a boat with twins and you'll get it.

This guy seems to think a single engine is ok in remote places with no backup.

Go ahead Craig make an offer on that one. You can carry a big dinghy and no one will dispute that it's a trawler.

CPseudonym said:

This guy seems to think a single engine is ok in remote places with no backup.

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Lots of backup I betcha in the way of crew and an onboard warehouse. The engineers on these big fishing boats are pretty skilled and those I have met can fix most anything that poses problems. This point has been raised by many on this thread, ie, suitable spares and skills to use them are a necessity when cruising and working offshore with a single.

Several Alaska trawlers sink each decade

Most sink due to engine failures and loss of steerage - I don't think an Alaskan crabber is the example I was looking for!

The USCG stays pretty active in Alaska helping boats with engine problems.

Just to re-ask the question - who is cruising in remote areas or hundreds of miles from shore with a single engine and no backup?

Thanks to those who provide details of "doin' it"

caltexflanc said:

You could always go to a general aviation airport or forums and quiz some members of the flying clubs how they do it; those guys have some real motivation to not have engine failure.

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... and that is why even a simple single, C172, costs about $75/hour to operate!

It would easy to make any single engine / no backup trawler safe with redundant power if I wanted to spend $30 or $40 per hour spread over 2000 hours and five years.

Whether to go to a remote place with a single engine without a backup is one of these questions that will never be answered. Would like to mention two instances when I was very happy to have a wing engine.

Crossing the Mona Passage (between Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic) we were experiencing ten foot seas and having a rough time when the stabilizer pump attached to the engine broke loose. My immediate reaction was to shut off the engine. Bay Pelican was bounced around like a toy with 55 degree rolls and all hell breaking loose. I needed to remount the pump. I turned on the wing engine and had enough forward motion that the boat stabilized somewhat and I was able to do what I had to do and restart the main engine.

Early in my stewardship of Bay Pelican I was docking in unfavorable conditions with a strong wind from the stern as I pulled into a covered slip. I knew that it was going to take power to stop the forward movement as the wind was pushing Bay Pelican forward toward the front of the slip. (Rookie error even trying this.) As I went to put the main into reverse I blew it and killed the engine. The wing engine being on (always when docking) I used the wing to stop the boat. We only gently tapped the bow against the dock.

Backup up arrangements are expensive to both install and somewhat to maintain. They do have some value, hard to quantify. I have become use to turning the wing engine on whenever I am docking, whenever I am anchoring in close quarters and importantly whenever I am going through a cut in reef where there is no room for drifting to restart the main engine.

Just to re-ask the question - who is cruising in remote areas or hundreds of miles from shore with a single engine and no backup?

RAG BAG SAILORS , by the thousands.

For the speedy marine motorist Mr H. designed cruisers like the MARCO POLO .

10K, 240nm per day, but it was no beach ball.

With modern engines , materials this should be a snap to match.

Step the mast in a lutchet or crank powered tabernacle , build easily beachable , and a fairly low cost easy maint world cruiser could be built.

No beach ball.

jleonard said:

And I lost power on my single engine trawler In the Harlem on my delivery trip luckily my second anchor held and I was able to bleed the fuel and get running.
I have also done several 500 plus mile trips but none have been offshore.

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Upon returning to Floyd Bennett field after a pollution patrol up the Harlem River in a single engine Coast Guard helicopter, we discovered bullet holes in the side of the fuselage. A few feet higher and to the left and we'd have been up the creek without a paddle. Twins for me.

Does Richard on Dauntlass have a wing? I don't think he does. He just crossed the Atlantic with one lonely Lehman.

Lots of excellent advice above! Keep the single engine simple, mechanical guages and controls, install a spring or hydraulic starter, take a college diesel repair course and best yet... tear apart and rebuild your engine in yout boat. You'll have confidence to spare!!

If that's not enough then get into kite surfing and design a rig to tie it to your bow.

Lastly, Remote means different things to different people.

I thought nothing of going 10, 20 , 30 miles offshore in our first months of boat ownership. Yes, I knew BoatUS was only a phone call away, but we also had plans for the Atlantic and if we were afraid to go off shore then, we would never have made this trip now.

Also, the one time we really needed BoatUS when we were stuck on a lobster pot in Downeast Maine, after 12 hours, Julie was one the one who turned to me and said, "no one is going to help us, we must help ourselves"

We were free 30 minutes later and it was a valuable lesson for both of us.