Chesapeake Anchor Holding Power Test

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Even the less discussed roll bars seem to do OK.....

Uploaded on Mar 5, 2008
80 Knots at Punta Delgardo in the Magellan Straights. Basically an open roadstead. Thanks to the Manson Supreme, I did not budge an inch!

windy anchorage - YouTube
 
Marin wrote;
"I think your strong bias against Rocna and rollbar anchors in general is coloring your view of things a bit"

That resembles me a lot too and in reverse it resembles you equally. You frequently defend these RB anchors and specifically the Rocna as it they were an 11 year old daughter. I like them too Marin and if the new Spade (Sea Blade) lives up to it's good looks I may even have another RB anchor. But I suspect the RB will be surpassed and outdated soon .. relatively soon.

Actually Marin RB anchors could be in their model T phase. Breakthroughs in technology could catapult the RB anchors to stardom and cause the cessation of the manufacture of anything else. I wouldn't buy a Rocna because P Smith is connected to the brand but I'm almost fully open to all the rest.

Design wise I think the Bugel had a lot going for it and the new Spade "Spoon" could have found a defect and it's performance could be a lot better. Don't know but it's bound to come out in future tests. At least some indication.

Scott it looks like the rode could be as important as the anchor in your "anchorage". A 500' bunji as in a nylon line seems appropriate to me.
 
[RIGH[/RIGHT] But I suspect the RB will be surpassed and outdated soon ..

Just like those old, outdated relics like the Bruce/Claw, Danforth, CQR, Spade, Navy, Forfjord etc have been proven to have "problems" and so no boater in his right mind would continue to use one, right?:)

Yeah, I can get behind that notion. Seems like you've been advocating using Model T anchors all along here, Eric. Time to throw out all that junk you've been toting around and get in line be for that high-tech, digital anchor that's just around the corner.:)

But I am glad to see you feel the same about old, outdad anchor designs as I do.:)
 
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Below are images of the All at Sea magazine report about the test.

You will note on page 3 the writer's comments concerning the Rocna. As previously mentioned, there was surprise aboard that this anchor had setting issues, which were attributed to it landing upside down or on its side, and then the anchor just dragged along the soft mud in that position and the fluke never positioned into the bottom.

We noticed this tendency with the Rocna during preliminary testing, and we decided to experiment and help it orient by tying a small buoy (remember the Hydrobubble?) to the roll bar, thinking that might assist the anchor to land in the fluke down position....and it did.

For whatever reason, this setting issue was not as common with the other roll bar anchors (Manson Supreme & Mantus).
 

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:rofl: Just perfect!

Hey, mods. What about changing "Anchors and Anchoring" to "Anchor Sluts"? A great way to increase viewership with all the mis-directed Google hits you'll get.

Aaah…no…I think we'll pass on that Angus. Thanks for the thought though...

OK, so "Anchor Sluts" is out. Probably insensitive anyway since I believe we're dealing with something beyond the victims' control. What about a forum that offers shelter and support to those exhibiting the disorder we see at work here . . . although I haven't quite worked out what to call it:

Anchorholism?
Fluke Fetish?
Roll Bar Envy?
Ground Tackle Compulsive Disorder?

:D
 
"Ground Tackle Compulsive Disorder" :thumb:
 
:facepalm: Nevertheless, every time I've dropped my Bruce knockoff, it grabs the sticky SF estuary mud readily in the 1-to-2.5-knot current; lay out some more scope, and I'm good to stay despite frequent 180-degree tidal changes.
 
OK, so "Anchor Sluts" is out. Probably insensitive anyway since I believe we're dealing with something beyond the victims' control. What about a forum that offers shelter and support to those exhibiting the disorder we see at work here . . . although I haven't quite worked out what to call it:

Anchorholism?
Fluke Fetish?
Roll Bar Envy?
Ground Tackle Compulsive Disorder?

:D

"Anchor-Type" Usefulness Denial

or

"Anchor-Type" Uselessness Denial

Depending on bottom composition... and... user's correct setting capability.
 
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I think your strong bias against Rocna and rollbar anchors in general is coloring your view of things a bit. The only "problem" with a rollbar anchor is that it doesn't fit on a large number of pulpits.

Given the very large and growing number of boaters using rollbar anchors all over the world with outstanding results, it would appear that the so-called "problems" with rollbar anchors are only in the minds of those who don't have them. And apparently, nobody has thought to tell the anchors themselves that they have "problems" because they continue to rack up an enviable record of performance in recreational and commercial service all over the planet.:)
I don't have any bias against rollbar anchors other than what physics teaches me about the effect of trying to pull a solid bar perpendicular to the sea bed. It will initially increasing holding power, but will prevent the anchor from burying itself so will yield less ultimate holding than an anchor without a roll bar. Further, if the rollbar ends up piling up debris in front of it, holding is further reduced. That is, I suppose, why Starzinger's test in Patagonia of a Manson, Rocna and Bruce type Ray had the Ray come out on top.

Regarding Rocna, I have no special animus towards that product, but do find the tendency of some to tout it as the best anchor in the world pretty tedious, because it clearly is not. At least based on a wide range of objective tests. If I wanted a hoop style, I would probably choose the Manson simply because although they have strengthened the shank it is still weaker than the Supreme's and both test about the same in holding capacity.
 
If I wanted a hoop style, I would probably choose the Manson simply because although they have strengthened the shank it is still weaker than the Supreme's and both test about the same in holding capacity.

I agree with you there. Our Rocna is an original, made long before Holdfast showed up and moved the production to China. Canadian Metals moved the production from whatever fabrication plant Holdfast had been using to their own, wholly-owned fabrication plant in China, and they say the problems with the early Chinese shanks--- assuming there were any--- have been resolved.

But were we in the market for a new anchor today, while we would still choose a rollbar anchor because, as I've stated before, we think it is the best all-around, multi-bottom design going, we would probably order a Sarca from Australia because we are pretty sure it's made correctly and its performance is right up there with the Rocna's.

We don't like the Manson, partly because of its stupid slotted shank which in addition to the sliding shackle problem makes the shank too tall for a lot of pulpit anchor keepers (bails) including ours. We also believe that the Manson's overall design, while pretty good, is not quite up to par with Rocna's and Anchor Right's.

But we would be somewhat leery of buying a new Rocna today just because the alleged Chinese manufacturing problems in the Holdfast days makes us a bit unsure of the quality today. With the Sarca on the market, it enables a buyer to avoid the "Rocna uncertainty" altogether.
 
I agree with you there. Our Rocna is an original, made long before Holdfast showed up and moved the production to China. Canadian Metals moved the production from whatever fabrication plant Holdfast had been using to their own, wholly-owned fabrication plant in China, and they say the problems with the early Chinese shanks--- assuming there were any--- have been resolved.

But were we in the market for a new anchor today, while we would still choose a rollbar anchor because, as I've stated before, we think it is the best all-around, multi-bottom design going, we would probably order a Sarca from Australia because we are pretty sure it's made correctly and its performance is right up there with the Rocna's.

We don't like the Manson, partly because of its stupid slotted shank which in addition to the sliding shackle problem makes the shank too tall for a lot of pulpit anchor keepers (bails) including ours. We also believe that the Manson's overall design, while pretty good, is not quite up to par with Rocna's and Anchor Right's.

But we would be somewhat leery of buying a new Rocna today just because the alleged Chinese manufacturing problems in the Holdfast days makes us a bit unsure of the quality today. With the Sarca on the market, it enables a buyer to avoid the "Rocna uncertainty" altogether.
The Super Sarca would be a good choice, and I didn't mention it because of the lack of distribution. However, IMO, the SS overcomes or minimizes two of the problems I see in hoop style anchors. First, it has convex flukes, so debris is moved away from the hoop, avoiding piling up in front of the hoop. Second, the hoop is quite thin, so reduces the burying impediment the hoop imposes. True, the shank is mild steel, but Rex has compensated for that with thicker sections, so net net, the material choice is probably fine. Having said that, if you were to order from Oz, the Sarca Excel is, IMHO, the best design out there and is quite nice looking to boot.
 
But were we in the market for a new anchor today, while we would still choose a rollbar anchor because, as I've stated before, we think it is the best all-around, multi-bottom design going, we would probably order a Sarca from Australia because we are pretty sure it's made correctly and its performance is right up there with the Rocna's.


I am in the market for a new generation anchor right now(actually windlass, roller and rode too) and the above statement of Marin's is honestly where the rubber meets the road for me. Prior to shelling out a boat buck on a chunk of steel to drop overboard and hold my boat in place I want to know that I know the dang thing is made out of what the manufacturer claims it is. A credibility issue exists with some brands of high dollar anchors that has not manifest itself with other brands. Rather than assurances some offer now, I prefer one that hasn't dropped the ball at all.
 
Having said that, if you were to order from Oz, the Sarca Excel is, IMHO, the best design out there and is quite nice looking to boot.

We don't like the Excel for the same reason we don't like the CQR. We won't put our faith in anchors with flukes streamlined in the direction of pull. We want the broadest, most resistant piece of metal opposing the pull of the boat as practical, not something that by design will slide through the bottom when you pull on it.

Yes, I know the theory--- as it moves forward it's also supposed to dig in deeper and so hold harder. But I've driven a tractor pulling a plow, and so far as I'm concerned, that's the wrong approach to take with an anchor design no matter how you fiddle the bends in the metal. There are already enough variables in anchoring. Using an anchor that "wants" to move forward is not something I want to add to the mix.:)
 
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I am in the market for a new generation anchor right now(actually windlass, roller and rode too) and the above statement of Marin's is honestly where the rubber meets the road for me. Prior to shelling out a boat buck on a chunk of steel to drop overboard and hold my boat in place I want to know that I know the dang thing is made out of what the manufacturer claims it is. A credibility issue exists with some brands of high dollar anchors that has not manifest itself with other brands. Rather than assurances some offer now, I prefer one that hasn't dropped the ball at all.
I think the Rocna debacle was unusual in that the manufacturer lied about what they were doing and I don't think there are many more completely unethical manufacturers lurking out there. The Sarca Excel is made of the best material available, as is the Manson if a hoop style is desired. I'm nuts about my Ultra, but they are pretty pricey. If I were advising a friend on the best possible choice at a not unreasonable price I think I would go for the Manson Supreme in weights less than 100#. A 45# is $454 through Fisheries, and while I would prefer the Excel the shipping would add quite a bit. The Fortress is also an option and would be the best holding, but sometimes they just don't fit on the boat.
 
I purchased a Fortress last year and love it. The problem is I wish to automate my anchoring due to health reasons and with our small classic boat it's not easy to do without changing the look of the boat. The new generation anchors geometry gives options traditional anchors do not.

I've been making cardboard templates of different anchors and trying to refine for the most aesthetically pleasing look. Trying to fit ten pounds of crap inside a five pound bucket will not be without compromise. Small foredeck and no pulpit(nor desire for one) is proving to be a fun little jigsaw puzzle to solve. Thank goodness it's part of the way I relax on the boat.
 
Quote from Marin:

Yes, I know the theory--- as it moves forward it's also supposed to dig in deeper and so hold harder. But I've driven a tractor pulling a plow, and so far as I'm concerned, that's the wrong approach to take with an anchor design no matter how you fiddle the bends in the metal. There are already enough variables in anchoring. Using an anchor that "wants" to move forward is not something I want to add to the mix.

Rex Wrote:
Marin if you are going to lump in the Excel as a Plough then I don’t see why you would prefer the Super Sarca?
Truth is neither plough, no I am not going through it all again, I would post but I think I would be doing the wrong thing, if you go to our videos and upload the environmental video, then if you still think the Excel is a plough then don’t try selling it to l the farmers, the trench fills in rather than plough out, this is very well demonstrated by the delta example. I cant but you could upload it for all to see and mke up own minds, just adds more FUEL to your ongoing discussions.
The below report is in the TF archives, Dinghydog may have an update, Mike replaced his Rocna with a Excel.

05-30-2013, 08:30 AM

#107

DinghyDog
Veteran Member



City: Annapolis
Country: US
Vessel Model: Pacific Trawler 37
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Initial field report on the galvanized Sarca Excel No. 6 (66lb).

Location: Chesapeake Bay
Dates: 5/25 & 5/26
Bottom: Typically mud with varying top layers depending on location
Boat: PH Trawler - 40' overall length and 24,000 lb displacement
Rode: 5/16" G4 with dual snubbers

Day 1: Anchor boat for three sailboats - 1x42' & 2x34' (our old sailing friends did not disown us after all). Location (Rhode River High Island, MD) is known to have good holding. Winds were variable from 8-18 kts with minimal directional change. Anchor bit immediately and held a 1K RPM back down set (single 340 HP). No issues overnight. Weighing the anchor required patience, persistence and came up with mud mainly around the “de-liquification” cut-outs. A drop back into the water cleaned off the majority.

Day 2: Anchor boat for five sailboats - 1x42',1x39', 3x34'. Location (Mill Creek, MD) is known to have poor holding because of heavy leaf cover; had previous difficulties getting anchors to set in this anchorage. Anchor bit immediately and held a 1.1K RPM back down set. Winds variable from 5-12 kts. No issues overnight. Raft had swung 180 degrees on the morning tide, but the winds were calm.

Observations: Based on the difficulty weighing anchor, I can only suspect that it dove deeply into the mud. It also easily penetrated the leafy bottom of Mill Creek. By the end of the Holiday weekend, we were christened “anchor boat for life”. Not sure if this is necessarily a good thing…

While the above cannot be considered a definitive test for any anchor, I have growing confidence it will hold our single boat in most straight-line to moderate veering wind conditions and in substrates found on the Bay. I’m still looking for a substaintal 180 degree wind shift that typically comes during our summer squalls. I’ll continue to update notable experiences with this anchor. End Quote:

Any way I think they are all good anchors, the ones that survive have to be.

Regards Rex.
 
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Rex Wrote:
Marin if you are going to lump in the Excel as a Plough then I don’t see why you would prefer the Super Sarca?.

Because the Super Sarca is a rollbar anchor, and I think the rollbar anchor is the cleverest idea since sliced bread.:)

The Excel is a new twist on an old idea, the CQR. The plow design, be it a CQR, Delta, Excel, etc. is streamlined in the direction of pull, and I simply believe that's a fundamentally bad idea. Sorry, but that's the way I feel.

I can certainly understand why a rollbar anchor manufacturer would want to come out with something like this, because the rollbar anchor presents some real stowage problems with a lot of pulpit designs. So the moment you stick a rollbar on an anchor you elminate a good chunk of your potential market. Apparently, Peter Smith over at Rocna has finally figured out what you guys realized awhile back.:)

The most experienced, most knowledgable boater I've ever met, a long-time sailboater in our boating club, has a CQR on his 40' sloop. He's had pretty good luck with it, he told me, in the decades he's been sailing the Pacific Northwest and up the BC coast.

When we started looking for a better anchor to replace the anchor we were not happy with, I asked him what it was that he liked about the CQR, and why it is one of the most popular anchors in this area, particularly on sailboats.

He thought about it for a moment, and then said the main reason he liked and bought it was that it was the first anchor to come along that fit really well on the bow of a modern (meaning no bowsprit) sailboat. He said he wasn't particularly impressed with its holding power and sometimes it was a bit stubborn to set, but in all the years he's been boating he's rarely run into conditions that really taxed the anchor. He's had it drag a few times, but in his view, that's the nature of boating. It fits well on his boat, it works well almost all the time, so he's a happy man, he said.

Sensible answer from a very sensible boater. But since we CAN carry a rollbar anchor with no problems on our boat, that's what we decided was the thing to get.

Now I will say I much prefer the angle of the Rocna's fluke to its shank to the angle (or lack thereof) between the Sarca's fluke and its shank. And as I've stated before, I don't like slotted shanks. But take the Rocna design out of the picture, and I think you guys have the best anchor going in the Super Sarca.

At least based on my own visual evaluation of the design and the testimonials I've read including those from this forum's Peter B. Obviously we've never actually used a Super Sarca, so I can't make any judgement about its performance based on personal use.

BTW, don't feel that you need to explain how your anchors work again. You've done that in the past and I paid attention to what you wrote, so I'm not trying to provoke you into doing it all again.:) I'm just answering the question you posed above.

Cheers,
 
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Regarding Rocna, I have no special animus towards that product, but do find the tendency of some to tout it as the best anchor in the world pretty tedious, because it clearly is not.

I have no idea what would make an anchor "the best anchor in the world" any more than there would be a best hose clamp in the world or a best fuel additive. What it all comes down to is what's good enough for a reasonable price based on the experiences of people you know and trust.

Given my full-time liveaboard status where we anchor between 30-50% of the time (4 nights this week in St Michaels), I think that a trawler owner who wants to anchor between Maine and the Keys including the Great Lakes and great rivers down to the Gulf of Mexico, is out-of-their-mind-crazy to purchase anything other than a Rocna for their primary anchor. There, I said it.

It doesn't matter to me whether there is a theoretically better anchor out there somewhere. My Rocna has never failed once where previous anchors on the same boat in the same anchorages wouldn't set well.

By this winter, I hope to add the Bahamas to my list of experienced Rocna dropping grounds (I haven't been back in the 5 years we've had the Rocna). I'd gladly take bets on what my experience will be there too.

I also think the Fortress is a killer backup anchor. I have one and I've used it when a previous large Bruce wouldn't set. The Fortress has never given me a moment of problem either although I'm not as sure about its reset capability as I am the Rocna.

And if I were in some position where I needed to purchase new anchors, I'd get a Rocna and a Fortress. I honestly couldn't care less whether they were rated best by any "authority". I know they're the best for me.
 
Quote by Marin.
BTW, don't feel that you need to explain how your anchors work again. You've done that in the past and I paid attention to what you wrote, so I'm not trying to provoke you into doing it all again. I'm just answering the question you posed above.
End Quote:

And I really appreciate your answers and compliments; but I am over it, if it works for you then that is all it has to please, there are many good anchors out there now to choose from to satisfy all opinons, none are perfect but some are better.
Regards Rex.
 
... I don't like slotted shanks. But take the Rocna design out of the picture, and I think you guys have the best anchor going in the Super Sarca...
The SS shank slot can be blocked at any point on its length, with a bolt, to limit or totally prevent attachment shackle slide. Mine came with the bolt which I removed to allow shackle slide towards the spade on retrieve. I appreciate some would retain it, concerned about unintended dislodging.
 
Further, if the rollbar ends up piling up debris in front of it, holding is further reduced.


The advantage of the roll bar is that you dispense with the need for the bulky ballasted tip that is needed in anchors like the fixed convex plow models.

A bulky ballasted tip has to penetrate the substrate for the anchor to get any grip at all. On the other hand the rollbar is at the back of the fluke. Before the rollbar presents any resistance, the fluke has to be almost completely buried.

As the anchor buries more, the rollbar does present some resistance to the anchor diving, but I believe it less of problem than the bulky tip. The ultimate design is to remove both the bulk of the ballasted tip and the rollbar. Anchors like this (such as the Raya, Oceane and Sword) have tended to be slightly erratic (the Boss is a bit new to tell).

One of my reasons for taking photos is to dispel some myths.

Have a look at the photos and you will see plenty of examples of bulky tips especially on the convex plow anchors simply "piling up debris in front".

The Mantus has a thin rollbar so is obviously less likely to pile up debris if it was going to occur, but if you look at the photos I have taken of the other rollbar anchors it does not show this phenomenon. Even if we look at the Bugel which has a very thick roll I see no evidence of the roll bar "piling up debris" and lots of evidence of anchors with bulky ballasted tips doing exactly that.


A fixed convex plow anchor piling substrate in front of it:

img_273169_0_8197b1cb41d5e1ba5ad4078247bdac04.jpg



A rollbar anchor:

img_273169_1_e0b2251214ddbde3c25779c5e15c35e1.jpg
 
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Noelex when you have images of the Raya, better used one - then I think you are in a position to comment. In the interim you are simply speculating and denigrating a product you know no more about than anyone else.

The roll bar of most concave anchors represents a surface area of 10% of the surface area of the fluke. Possibly you can explain why this does not have a significant effect.

Mantus themselves say that their anchor sets better without the roll bar and I have tried it and they are correct. On the model I tried I found it was 25% deeper in a sand seabed without the roll bar. This is something you can do yourself, I suggest you take the roll bar off your Mantus, set it and then sit at anchor for 3 or 4 days and take pictures on a daily basis. Then do the same, same place with the roll bar attached. This really needs to be done with winds veering through 180 degrees so that we can see its resetting ability, with and without the roll bar (as suggested by the suppliers). For real authenticity, as with all anchor testing - this is best performed with someone who is recognised and accepted as being impartial.

You mention convex anchors 'piling up the sand'. There are convex anchors you have never seen working, for example the Excel. When you have seen a statistical number of these you might then be in a position to comment. Until then you are simply guessing - and guessing with an anchor does not work. One might actually say you are trolling as you no technical basis for your comments.

I would much prefer that you do not speculate and extrapolate about subjects of which you know absolutely nothing.
 
Noelex Quoted:

One of my reasons for taking photos is to dispel some myths.

Have a look at the photos and you will see plenty of examples of bulky tips especially on the convex plow anchors simply "piling up debris in front".
End Quote:

As Long as I am a anchor designer I will complain when I see unjust and ridicules statements made in regard to unfair and unjust comparisons, whether it be a plow, rocna, Bugal, Ultra Fortress, Delta, because I understand what it takes to design an anchor, further I understand from designing anchors unless the testing is an apples to apples test you are—could be misrepresenting many designs that have served the industry for years.


One--You have a massive, some might say ridicules’ 57 Kilo Mantus anchor size on your boat, I think you said 14 ton and 48 feet mono .
Two -- That’s fine—you supply no evidence as to the comparisons of anchor weight or size.

Three- you dive on your anchor set. Then reset if you are not satisfied.
Four -- You talk about heaping as something roll bar concave anchors don’t do, heaping is a natural phenomenon when setting your anchor depending on how much you drag it in, (convex or concave)with a massive Mantus like yours its no wonder you have little heaping.


Five –Listing, this is your description of not such a good performance, again listing is a natural process with most anchors when setting, once fully set will normally self align, if you take a Spade anchor with the huge tip weight, listing allows this design to follow your boat around in the change of tide applying its maximum angle of attack to give less chance of breaking out in a change of wind or tide. Concave roll bars do the same but less.( providing they are of similar size)


Five—distance that it takes for anchors’ in comparison of your Mantus to set, THIS IS SO OUT OF KILTA, You are not setting them, your comparisons are just randomly dropping their anchors, smaller anchors take longer to hold, smaller anchors will drag further with the same throttle load, a smaller anchor with less weight will struggle more in harder substrate to set than a heavier one and take longer, drag further before set.


Now I really don’t care if you are offended by this but there are a lot of old and new designs in your comparisons that I believe are being misrepresented, you photography is commendable, your experience is unquestionable, but your "VERBAL" comparisons are way of the mark and unfair, “you know” I don’t know how good your Mantus is because of your flawed comparisons.


You should also clear up Djbangies query, you stated on the YWB forum that the Mantus set first time and didn’t drag in mud and weed, when going back over your statement on CF YOU CLEARLY STATED IT DRAGGED AND YOU HAD TO RESET IT, I know this as I have rechecked. This really bothers me.
One thousand 500 hundred sets with your Rocna, (Noelex how heavy is your rocna. ) Regardless it’s a great performance.


kind Regards Rex.
 
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We don't like the Excel for the same reason we don't like the CQR. We won't put our faith in anchors with flukes streamlined in the direction of pull. We want the broadest, most resistant piece of metal opposing the pull of the boat as practical, not something that by design will slide through the bottom when you pull on it.

Yes, I know the theory--- as it moves forward it's also supposed to dig in deeper and so hold harder. But I've driven a tractor pulling a plow, and so far as I'm concerned, that's the wrong approach to take with an anchor design no matter how you fiddle the bends in the metal. There are already enough variables in anchoring. Using an anchor that "wants" to move forward is not something I want to add to the mix.:)

Marin, for someone as technically savvy as you are, you have a blind spot re this plough thing. The so-called plow, (I'll use the US spelling hereafter as it's shorter), type anchors are not really plows at all, they just resemble them, so the name sort of stuck. If, as you say, you have driven a tractor pulling a plow, as have I, (I learnt to drive on the farms Massey Ferguson doing just that), then you will have noticed the plow share has a distinct upwards and outwards curve in the upper part of the rearmost half, which is designed to turn the soil over and outwards. Also, it lacks the mirror image other half to balance it. Even so, if the curved part was less so, and it was balanced by a mirror image joined to it as convex type anchors are, and the whole machine was not supported on wheels which prevent it, the net effect of a plow would be to drive it so far down into the field no tractor, let alone a horse, could pull it far without grinding to a halt, or something breaking.

That…is the strength of the convex type fluke. The convex (better term) anchors do not have that pronounced outward curve, but are essentially two triangular shapes joined along the upper edge, forming a wedge, with varying degrees of downward angle, in the case of the S-Sarca, very little - it is only slightly convex, the Excel (and many other), more-so. This shape, (streamlined as you term it), parts the substrate, and the net effect because of the downward taper towards the tip, is indeed to drive it further and further down. If max hold is exceeded, and it does drag, it is slow and controlled and usually stays deep, with the seabed folding back over it, doing minimal damage to the seabed. I don't think one can explain it plainer than that. I have actually watched my anchor doing this in clear water, although I admit I have never seen the 'controlled' drag bit. As far as I know, it never has. I don't like to dive much in Moreton Bay - 'Jaws' the movie ruined me for that.
 
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I am in the market for a new generation anchor right now(actually windlass, roller and rode too) and the above statement of Marin's is honestly where the rubber meets the road for me.

Small foredeck and no pulpit(nor desire for one) is proving to be a fun little jigsaw puzzle to solve.


That might give you an opportunity to install two rollers, somehow, so you could keep two different-style anchors "mounted" -- with perhaps a not-too-difficult rode-swap mechanism.

In my spare time, I've been studying on the idea of somehow adding another roller semi-elegantly so I could do that. No joy so far...

-Chris
 
Marin if you are going to lump in the Excel as a Plough then I don’t see why you would prefer the Super Sarca?
Truth is neither plough... then if you still think the Excel is a plough then don’t try selling it to l the farmers, the trench fills in rather than plough out, this is very well demonstrated by the delta example.


The Excel is a new twist on an old idea, the CQR. The plow design, be it a CQR, Delta, Excel, etc. is streamlined in the direction of pull, and I simply believe that's a fundamentally bad idea. Sorry, but that's the way I feel.


Ummm... Seems to me part of this debate is "what's a plough?" (plow?)

Rex says the Excel is not a plough, Marin says it is.

Why is it not a plough? Why is it a plow? Explanations? Thoughts?

-Chris
 
I just watched about an hour of videos of the three major roll bar anchors...pretty much they all do the same thing and do it pretty well if you can believe the videos (obviously the videos of NOT setting are pretty rare to non existant except in some "canned" testing). I'm guessing the videos show what these anchors were designed to do. They also debunk a lot of theories posted in this thread.

Watching the vids is good enough for me and with all the testimonials I feel pretty secure in my anchor selection....which could have been any of the newgen types/styles.

I suggest if you are actually thinking of believing some of the stuff posted in this thread....you spend more time looking at posted videos and make the decision for yourself.....a good read of the major anchor websites isn't a bad use of time either...but look at them all...you can see the marketing and the flawed thinking pretty easily...but in the end...they are all pretty well thought out and have proven themselves to a lot of cruisers with no "clear" winner.
 
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Originally Quoted by Peter B

Marin, for someone as technically savvy as you are, you have a blind spot re this plough thing. The so-called plow, (I'll use the US spelling hereafter as it's shorter), type anchors are not really plows at all, they just resemble them, so the name sort of stuck. If, as you say, you have driven a tractor pulling a plow, as have I, (I learnt to drive on the farms Massey Ferguson doing just that), then you will have noticed the plow share has a distinct upwards and outwards curve in the upper part of the rearmost half, which is designed to turn the soil over and outwards. Even so, if the curved part was less so, and the whole machine was not supported on wheels which prevent it, the net effect of a plow would be to drive it so far down into the field no tractor, let alone a horse, could pull it far without grinding to a halt, or something breaking.

That…is the strength of the convex type fluke. The convex (better term) anchors do not have that pronounced outward curve, but are essentially two triangular shapes joined along the upper edge, forming a wedge, with varying degrees of downward angle, in the case of the S-Sarca, very little - it is only slightly convex, the Excel (and many other), more-so. This shape, (streamlined as you term it), parts the substrate, and the net effect because of the downward taper towards the tip, is indeed to drive it further and further down. If max hold is exceeded, and it does drag, it is slow and controlled and usually stays deep, with the seabed folding back over it, doing minimal damage to the seabed. I don't think one can explain it plainer than that. I have actually watched my anchor doing this in clear water, although I admit I have never seen the 'controlled' drag bit. As far as I know, it never has. I don't like to dive much in Moreton Bay - 'Jaws' the movie ruined me for that.


Pete
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Quote from Rex:

I will tell you one thing Eric, Marin, Peter maybe a little biased because he likes his Super Sarca but he is mostly spot on with most of his knowledge as to how his anchor works, and again he has not learnt this from me, mostly observation over quite a lengthy time, I am truly surprised by his accuracy time over.

Regards Rex.
 
Quote by psneeld:

just watched about an hour of videos of the three major roll bar anchors...pretty much they all do the same thing and do it pretty well if you can believe the videos (obviously the videos of NOT setting are pretty rare to non existant except in some "canned" testing). I'm guessing the videos show what these anchors were designed to do.

Watching the vids is good enough for me and with all the testimonials I feel pretty secure in my anchor selection....which could have been any of the newgen types/styles.

I suggest if you are actually thinking of believing some of the stuff posted in this thread....you spend more time looking at posted videos and make the decision for yourself.....a good read of the major anchor websites isn't a bad use of time either...but look at them all...you can see the marketing and the flawed thinking pretty easily...but in the end...they are all pretty well thought out and have proven themselves to a lot of cruisers with no "clear" winner.

Rex replied

Scott very good coments, so why all the arguing? Flawed marketing, you must be talking about the othe blokes.

Regards Rex.
 
Quote from ranger42C

Ummm... Seems to me part of this debate is "what's a plough?" (plow?)

Rex says the Excel is not a plough, Marin says it is.

Why is it not a plough? Why is it a plow? Explanations? Thoughts?

-Chris
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South River, Chesapeake Bay

Quote from Rex:

Chris,
I have been over this so many times, Peter B basically summed it up, watch the environment vid on our web site, you can then judge.

Chris whilst you are there, I notice you are looking for bow roller arrangements, might be something there that will give you an idea.

Regards Rex.
Bay
 
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