Economy and well built trawler, tight budget....

Tollycraft (my other boat) has been sold. All inspections are satisfactory to the buyer. Officially I am boatless. Other than the one I am building and my little canoe...

The 1983 IG36 Europa looks reasonable, but dirty/neglected. I suspect deck issues, especially on the exposed FB (back half of mine was removed/redone in non slip paint), but would not be put off taking a look. Check the leading edge joint of the FB to the main "roof", prone to unsealing itself. Metal windows? They would be a plus.
The teak on my transom has been painted. Advice was once painted it`s tough getting it all off, so left it. One GB had a canvas cover over the teak, seemed a good idea.
Halvorsen never moved from Australia, they set up a joint venture in the late 1970s with Joseph Kong, manufacturing Harvey Halvorsen designs, in mainland China and finishing off in HK. Copying GB in many respects, but with Halvorsen traditional design, usually to a high standard. There were IGs built in wood, a 50ft here, huge volume boat, was built in meranti not teak, a bad choice.

Anyone?

Anyone know anything about this little trawler?

Clementine | Willard Boats

Is someone close to Port Ludlow that could take a quick peek at it for me? It's three hours away via ferry. Or has first hand knowledge of the boat. I have a few pages of the last survey and it appears it is somewhat of a neglected boat. However, if the price is right and mainly cosmetic I'll tackle that for a classic. Heck, if the price is even more right and the engine was garbage I'd still tackle that, but don't tell my wife....

Yesterday the wife and I were paddling our canoe around the harbor enjoying the warm, calm evening when we met the couple of a Universal 34. They offered us a tour of their boat and how could I turn that down. What a great layout, use of space, and access to the engine and various accessories, batteries, hot water tank, etc. I was really impressed with the ER, salon, and flybridge. This is a current listing of the same make,
1984 Universal Europa Sedan Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
What really impressed me was that this didn't strike me as a typical Taiwanese trawler. The decks were fiberglass, all the windows were in good shape, no signs of water damage, a solid well built trawler with lots of character. The above listing is way higher than I want to spend at this time. However, it is close to what we are looking for. Really quite a striking boat in appearance and function.

bshillam said:

Yesterday the wife and I were paddling our canoe around the harbor enjoying the warm, calm evening when we met the couple of a Universal 34. They offered us a tour of their boat and how could I turn that down. What a great layout, use of space, and access to the engine and various accessories, batteries, hot water tank, etc. I was really impressed with the ER, salon, and flybridge. This is a current listing of the same make,
1984 Universal Europa Sedan Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
What really impressed me was that this didn't strike me as a typical Taiwanese trawler. The decks were fiberglass, all the windows were in good shape, no signs of water damage, a solid well built trawler with lots of character. The above listing is way higher than I want to spend at this time. However, it is close to what we are looking for. Really quite a striking boat in appearance and function.

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Tollycraft Tri Cabin - American built... Strong!

What more can I say???

Offered at 1/3 to 1/2 cost to boat you link... as you know deals can happen during winter. Lots of similar Tolly often offered at even lower asking prices on Seattle CL, but you know that! :lol:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1974/Tollycraft-34-Tri-Cabin-2644601/Bellingham/WA/United-States#.VBMq8PldWSo

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1975/Tollycraft-34-Tri-Cabin-2723796/Des-Moines/WA/United-States#.VBMr-fldWSo

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/Tollycraft-Tri-cabin-2709725/Edmonds/WA/United-States#.VBMsfvldWSo

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981/Tollycraft-Tri-Cabin-1947044/Byron/CA/United-States#.VBMs-_ldWSo

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1978/Tollycraft%2C-Acmy-Tri-Cabin-2683578/Long-Beach/CA/United-States#.VBMtTfldWSo

Pssst... Art. Read the first sentence of the first post.

Northern Spy said:

Pssst... Art. Read the first sentence of the first post.

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Pssst - He owned a Tolly "sedan"... we've discussed plenty on phone!

Pssssssst - Running only one engine at just under 6 knots our Tolly "tri cabin" gets near 3 nmpg. And, U.S. Tollycraft build integrity is simply Da Best!!

Minimally better nmpg rate in another type boat that costs thousands more to maintain - just ain't a good deal.

PSSSSSSSSSSSSST - At hull speed 7 + knots our Tolly still gets 2 nmpg running both engines. And, we can cruise 16/17 if desired using 1 gal per nm... 21/22 WOT is available if required!

Pssst, read the third paragraph of the first post. He don't wanna gasser.

Art's edict.

Everyone WANTS a gas powered Tolly; they just don't realize it.

CPseudonym said:

Pssst, read the third paragraph of the first post. He don't wanna gasser.

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Pssst - There are some diesel "re-powered" 34' Tolly tri cabins for sale too; seek and ye shall find! :lol:

Psssssst - 40' Tolly tri cabins are about 50/50 gas or diesel regarding orig. power source... some repowered with fancy new diesels!

Pound for pound in build-out value, dollar for dollar in purchase cost, resale value for resale value, ease of maintenance, comfortable living aboard, seaworthiness - - > and many other reasons... Tollycraft boats from the mid 1970's to very early 1990's era are just about the best deal on the pleasure boating market - Hands-Down! Errrr Thumbs-UP!!

Northern Spy said:

Art's edict.

Everyone WANTS a gas powered Tolly; they just don't realize it.

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Now ya gots da picture! -

I have had a Tolly, and although I like the 45 it's a bit to much boat at this time in our lives. Art I like the fact you are such a cheerleader for the brand. It really goes to show everyone what happens when you find the right boat for you. I would say it's a lot of boat for the money, more than you would find in other brands, yet you get a boat that is capable (more so) and better built. For me though the economy wasn't there in this one. I am looking for something different.
I am going to be looking today at the Willard and will report back with pictures and opinion.

bshillam said:

I have had a Tolly, and although I like the 45 it's a bit to much boat at this time in our lives. Art I like the fact you are such a cheerleader for the brand. It really goes to show everyone what happens when you find the right boat for you. I would say it's a lot of boat for the money, more than you would find in other brands, yet you get a boat that is capable (more so) and better built. For me though the economy wasn't there in this one. I am looking for something different.
I am going to be looking today at the Willard and will report back with pictures and opinion.

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My hat's off to ya! I wish you the BEST luck for locating "another" boat of your dreams!

In life, which resembles one big-long dream anyway... we have some chance(s) to either deal in fun or nightmare. I believe in consistently pursuing the fun-dream alternatives best as I can! Pleasure boating is for sure one of the increments that further enhances the "FUN" part of our dream!

Nuff Said!!

Art said:

I believe in consistently pursuing the fun-dream alternatives best as I can! Pleasure boating is for sure one of the increments that further enhances the "FUN" part of our dream!

Nuff Said!!

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AMEN! Art our family does the same. We really try to take the drama out of living and enjoy where ever we are in life. Every step my wife and I have made together, even when most difficult, we have enjoyed. We have choices in life, we can find pleasure in the small things around us when its tough going or we can hang out in the doldrums. I choose the former - right now things are going really well for our family but I know that might change. Then I have to make the conscious decision to enjoy some of those small things.

It's like yesterday - my highlight yesterday was sitting with a two new friends and enjoying a beer, conversation and watching boats pass by on their new sail boat.

Art - anytime your up this way, I'll have a cold beer and conversation ready for you as well.

Cheers!

Ok it's official - signed sealed and delivered.

I went to look at a Willard this weekend - just what I am looking for. However, this one was really (did I say really I meant REALLY) rough. Every surface every where in the boat needed, either re-newed, replaced, or re worked. The engine has been neglected, the exterior and interior have been neglected. It's really quite a shame, even the paint was blistering. (above the water line no doubt). I had to ask myself, even should the boat be darn near free would I take on such a project? Oh did I mention the concrete stamped steal was rusting and expanding too in the keel? I almost wanted to give the girl a hug but then I though I'd probably have to shower afterwards.

So if anyone knows of a cleaner Willard 30 that isn't on YW or BT please let me know. I am on the hunt.

Check the Willard mailing list on Yahoo. Almost bought a Horizon (motorsailer) model from that list.

When you run one engine on a twin engine Tolly do you lock down the second prop/drive shaft?

Pura Vida said:

When you run one engine on a twin engine Tolly do you lock down the second prop/drive shaft?

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Per manufacturer info and my experiences as well as hearing from others: No lock down needed at slow speeds (hull speed or below) with Borg Warner 71C Velvet Drive transmissions. Still, I feel it wise to rotate engine use per hour so both trany stays well lubed.

I advise contacting any manufacturer for their recommendation regarding same item.

YRMV

Something I thought I would share with those that are looking for a little trawler in the PNW,
This is one that I looked at recently as well as my brief write up following. So disappointing,

1985 Monterey Clipper Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I wanted to take a few minutes this morning to express how disappointed I am at your representation of the Monterey Clipper. When you initially returned my call of interest on this boat I asked was there any mold or mildew present. To which you replied, “No, it’s a dry boat.” You continued explaining that the only thing that was in poor repair was some “Gingerbread wood around the bow of the boat.” Neither of your statements could be any further from the truth. It was because of your representation that I chose to travel from Bellingham to your offices. At a cost of over $100 in fuel and ferry charges, and about seven total hours of my families time.
A caprail can be structural in nature, after all the sanctions securing the safety rail around the boat are connected to the caprail. This is not “gingerbread.” However, this by itself was not enough to discourage my investigation of the clipper. When your associate opened the door leading to the salon it was apparent you failed to represent the boat accurately. It had an extremely high level of humidity, moisture/standing water in various locations, and mold. In fact you don’t even need to walk into the salon to see the problems. Mold on the ceiling and walls within the first few inches of the doorway. I was upset at your attempt to mislead me. Furthermore you left your associate to deal with my frustration.
It really is quite disappointing to see this boat in such disrepair. I noticed during my inspection there were both heaters and dehumidifiers in the vessel, neither of which were being attended to. Your lack of care while the vessel has been there has certainly added to the problems it has.
Needless to say although I had my checkbook in hand and was prepared to write a check for the purchase of the boat it will continue to go unpurchased. Not because I don’t see the value this unique boat has but because of the way you handled our interaction. Should you wish to discuss this any further feel free to contact me.

Also glad you didn't get that one as it's extremely over powered.

She weighs 6,500lbs less than Willy but has 1.5 times as much power.

manyboats said:

Also glad you didn't get that one as it's extremely over powered.

She weighs 6,500lbs less than Willy but has 1.5 times as much power.

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Eric - "... 1.5 times as much power." How minimal is the HP in your Willy?

There's a reason I didn't buy several boats before finding our current one. Misrepresentation in a word.

If you're willing to lie to me to get me to look at it we have nothing more to discuss.

CPseudonym said:

There's a reason I didn't buy several boats before finding our current one. Misrepresentation in a word.

If you're willing to lie to me to get me to look at it we have nothing more to discuss.

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AGREED!

"First time shame on you, second time shame on me"!

I detest liars and lies!!!

Art,
Willy has 37 hp as rated by Mitsubishi. Vetus markets the same engine and claims 42hp. Westerbeke claims 44hp for the same engine. Take your pick.

But if you look at my Willard 30 and the Clipper I think you'll agree the clipper needs less power. Very pointy ends, less draft, less beam and far less weight. And Willy could do fine w 33hp. 30hp is plenty for the Clipper.

manyboats said:

Art,
Willy has 37 hp as rated by Mitsubishi. Vetus markets the same engine and claims 42hp. Westerbeke claims 44hp for the same engine. Take your pick.

But if you look at my Willard 30 and the Clipper I think you'll agree the clipper needs less power. Very pointy ends, less draft, less beam and far less weight. And Willy could do fine w 33hp. 30hp is plenty for the Clipper.

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Heck, Eric.

We have 50 hp Johnson o/b on our 14'8" Crestliner tow-behind runabout. She gets 20/21 nmpg at 20/25 knot cruise. Light weight, fun, economical little devil... seats four comfortably with full windshield and bimini that shades all! Can reach 39+ nmpg in slack tide (per gps) with just me aboard.

Our 34' 20K to 21K gross lb Tolly has twin 255 hp i/b... running only one motor at slow cruise of 5.5 knots she gets 2.75 +/- nmpg. Running both engines while on plane at 16/17 knots = 1 +/- nmpg

How many nmpg does your Willy get at slow cruise? Must be darn good!

Although boat nmpg (over ground) "mathematically" comes down to a juxtaposition of HP, speed traveled, total weight, length, beam, bottom design, type-of-engine/fuel used for propulsion, drive-line configuration, friction; i.e. sq. in. surface contact, bottom cleanliness, waves encountered, currents, wind direction/velocity, position of movable weights aboard... just to name a few of the interchangeable variables - lol

It's near impossible to accurately mathatmically calculate what a boat will average for nmpg. It seems that only carefully studied and performed tests under stringently controlled conditions can come close to accurate - for any boat.

Therefore, I ask: So what if the Clipper in this thread has a bit more power than it mathematically seems is necessary?? In smallish engines (40 hp to 80 or 90 hp) (considering the compared engines' running efficiencies are the same) would it not be virtually the same nmpg at a same hp provided by a larger engine to travel through the water at same speed as an engine smaller in hp/size? And, would it not be good to have that extra power in larger engine available if needed for fighting rough seas as well as for towing something substantial... as may become required?

It appears you are a minimalist (to the fullest extent of that word) regarding engine size and hp available on "full displacement" boats. So as to barley let them reach cruise at recommended engine rpm, with WOT using every portion of the engine's available hp to at all attain the boat's designed top-hull-speed.

That said: I do mot consider myself a maximalist... however I do believe in having at least a few extra horses in reserve... for needs-be that can arise.

Happy H-Power Selection Daze! - Art

Art said:

It's near impossible to accurately mathatmically calculate what a boat will average for nmpg. It seems that only carefully studied and performed tests under stringently controlled conditions can come close to accurate - for any boat.

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Yet, somehow you do, and to 2 decimal places.....

"Our 34' 20K to 21K gross lb Tolly has twin 255 hp i/b... running only one motor at slow cruise of 5.5 knots she gets 2.75 +/- nmpg. Running both engines while on plane at 16/17 knots = 1 +/- nmpg"






Happy calculator Daze!

There are lies, damn lies and calculations....errr statistics. So sayeth a wise man I am unable to name....sigh.

SCOTTEDAVIS said:

Yet, somehow you do, and to 2 decimal places.....

"Our 34' 20K to 21K gross lb Tolly has twin 255 hp i/b... running only one motor at slow cruise of 5.5 knots she gets 2.75 +/- nmpg. Running both engines while on plane at 16/17 knots = 1 +/- nmpg"

Happy calculator Daze!

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_______________________________________________

Originally Posted by Art
It's near impossible to accurately mathematically calculate what a boat will average for nmpg. It seems that only carefully studied and performed tests under stringently controlled conditions can come close to accurate - for any boat.

NOTE - I said "near impossible"! And, my numbers come from "... only carefully studied and performed tests under stringently controlled conditions..." i.e. fill-up to fill-up with gps land-mass mileage and currents/winds carefully taken to account. Still, I would not be surprised if my condition controlled math is several % off the mark!

Fun to do and chat about though. So long as we always fill-up in time.

YRMV!

Greetings,
Mr. D. "...I am unable to name..." Sigh no more...
Mark Twain quotations - Statistics
Disraeli...

There is one for sale in Ladysmith, BC on the dock next to the Maritime Society dock. Trying to find the photo now. Original owner, not modified.