Stupid PO Tricks

DIY Sanitary Hose:

I finally got around to removing one of the dumbest things the PO did to my boat:


This was the hose coming from the forward head toward the holding tank. Look closely. That's red automotive RADIATOR HOSE the PO had painted white to make it LOOK like sanitary hose.

The adapter on the right attached to a piece of real 1-1/2" sanitary hose, which (except for one splice near the middle) went to the holding tank.

Oh, and that hose went UP through the bulkhead, then sagged DOWN along its way back up to the top of the holding tank, thus guaranteeing that it always remained full of waste water.

Last week I removed the vacuum cleaner hose the PO had connected to the shower drain. You can't make this stuff up!

One of my favs was on my old Carver 28. The depthsounder was wired to the ignition keyswitch with speaker wire. Where the speaker wire connected to the DS was 2 large balls of duct tape. Under the duct tape were wirenuts on the twisted wires with wood screws driven in to keep everything tight!

I guess you have to laugh after the fact at the inventiveness of painting the hose white! Did you suffer failure or catch it before bad stuff happened?

On ours, the PO Stupid Trick (POST?) was to have the electrical system all tied in together. Doesn't sound too bad until you understand that the house batteries & start batteries & inverter batteries & windlass/thruster batteries & genset batteries were all connected in parallel. Among other things the master switch was completely out of the equation.

Makes you wonder how these things get past the surveyor.

High Wire said:

...Under the duct tape were wirenuts on the twisted wires...

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Yup. My PO did the same thing!

Conrad said:

...Did you suffer failure or catch it before bad stuff happened?

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This was caught before any disaster. It's been on my "to do" list for a year and a half though, so I was lucky.

Conrad said:

...On ours, the PO Stupid Trick (POST?) was to have the electrical system all tied in together.

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Ditto. The three banks, house, starting and genset, are all connected to a battery combiner. But my genius PO had re-wired the combiner so that all three were always combined. The only thing I was able to save was the genset battery.

I'd go with SPOT (Stupid PO Tricks) myself. His attempts at painting and brightwork sure did leave a lot of spots on the soles and the walls. Other "repairs" he'd done left other spots. So it sort of fits.

CaptTom said:

Ditto. The three banks, house, starting and genset, are all connected to a battery combiner. But my genius PO had re-wired the combiner so that all three were always combined. The only thing I was able to save was the genset battery.

I'd go with SPOT (Stupid PO Tricks) myself. His attempts at painting and brightwork sure did leave a lot of spots on the soles and the walls. Other "repairs" he'd done left other spots. So it sort of fits.

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When we purchased Blue Sky we knew we had to replace all of the batteries, but as we went about it it became obvious that something seriously was amiss.

I agree that SPOT is a better acronym. Stupid PO Tricks need to be spotted quickly or you could be put on the spot at a bad time. (Sorry...)

I think I bought a boat from the same guy!! Here's what I found (so far!)

Head RW fitting secured and sealed with plumber's putty
Fridge 110V wires connected with wire nuts
Main 110V neutral and ground miswired
Main battery selector switch miswired preventing battery bank isolation
Undersink drain lines sealed with lots of silicone sealant
Multiple twisted and taped 12V wires, including one bilge pump

It took me several years to discover and repair all these deficiencies. Fortunately, the rate of discovery dropped greatly after the first 3 years. Now I budget extra time for projects to allow for surprises like these.

OK, how about Spa hose for head hose. After all it looks like head hose. But mad did it stink.

Greetings,
Actually the only SPOT we've experienced is our 220V galley stove/oven, now replaced with propane, was wired to 110V only. Took a long time to heat up for some reason?????? Wiring, plumbing etc. all well addressed, as far as I know thus far (8/9 years).

OK, I have a few SPOT as well:
- 110v breakers inside the propane locker for Waeco fridge, with hot wire bypassing the shore power master switch
- 110v lights in ER, with wire run from breaker panel using normal 12v wire colours (red/yellow)
- about 10 items connected to 12v panel without any fuses whatsoever
- wire nuts all over the place
- galley drain hose crack 'repaired' with gaffer tape
- thruster and house banks paralleled, and with each bank having its own constant voltage charger. After I used 1.5 gl water topping up the 23 batteries onboard I isolated the banks prior to the refit. I eventually installed new breaker panels and sorted out all of the electrical blunders!

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Actually the only SPOT we've experienced is our 220V galley stove/oven, now replaced with propane, was wired to 110V only. Took a long time to heat up for some reason?????? Wiring, plumbing etc. all well addressed, as far as I know thus far (8/9 years).

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What year and make/model of boat?

Greetings,
Mr. F. Crickets.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. F. Crickets.

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You can't tell us your boat model? (insert head scratch here)

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. F. Crickets.

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FlyWright said:

You can't tell us your boat model? (insert head scratch here)

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I think RTF's gif image means his boat model is of Asian decent.

I was worked on an 18 foot trihull that had a cheap rule bilge pump wired to constantly run.The overboard discharge side was plumbed into the hose for the exhaust cooling riser.The owner plugged in an elcheapo automotive battery charger to keep the battery charged while the boat was at dock,not in use.The reason, I later figured out, was because the stern drive bellows was leaking and possible rotted into nonexistence.

Was rewiring the 12v switches on my weather exposed helm. Battery off. Got to one unlabeled switch, touched it and my hand and arm went numb. Cut AC power to boat. Come to find out, PO wired 120v through this switch to power tv antenna booster IN THE ALUMINUM RADAR ARCH! To beat that, it was 18 gauge wire fed into the back of a gfi switch. I have some pics I will post when not on my iPad.

The pictures of the 120v wire as promised. I was floored!

My best one yet; the engine cooling water intake hose is 1-1/4 pushed into a 1-1/2 inch engine hose and clamped. No fitting just hose.

It really is a wonder that more boats don't sink or burn. I think we have a ll cut a corner or two at times, but geez, most of these things are bad.

Wouldn't it be easier and about the same price to just use sanitation hose rather than paint radiator hose?

My genset water intake was a 11/2" rubber hose clamped to a 1" intake at the strainer. The PO had wrapped the nipple with electrical tape to fatten it up. When I thought the hose was looking like it needed changing, it fell off when I touched the clamp with a screwdriver! Good thing I had closed the sea cock.

I've been working on my Hurricane heat system, I found a connection to the wheelhouse heater that goes from 1/2" copper to 1" heater hose to 1 1/2" heater hose in about 6 inches with no connectors and 6 hose clamps.

Beggars belief, really. No wonder we have to get inspected to carry passengers. Like another poster, I'm amazed you don't see boats popping under the waters like harbour seals with all the crappy work that's out there.

obthomas said:

My best one yet; the engine cooling water intake hose is 1-1/4 pushed into a 1-1/2 inch engine hose and clamped. No fitting just hose.

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OK, you've got me beat there. My PO "only" did the "three hoses inside each other" trick (instead of a reducer) on his creative application of a vacuum cleaner hose for the shower drain.

Dougcole said:

Wouldn't it be easier and about the same price to just use sanitation hose rather than paint radiator hose?

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Apparently he did all his marine parts shopping at NAPA. Didn't seem to matter that the belts were the wrong size and didn't fit right, that's what NAPA had in stock, so that's what he used. Admittedly, I've bought parts from NAPA too, but I don't believe they typically stock marine sanitary hose.

>Wouldn't it be easier and about the same price to just use sanitation hose rather than paint radiator hose?<

Usually the hassle is the repair person is in a hurry. Marinas have limited funds to keep slow moving inventory .

I believe folks in a Hurry is how Worst Marine stays in business with their outrageous pricing.

Just remember we will all be "stupid POs" someday

jleonard said:

Just remember we will all be "stupid POs" someday

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I definitely see that some stuff is just outrageous...but being in the business of repairing other people's boats...I also see a lot of things that look like they are well thought out and work fine...just not the "preferred" fix..almost as if they were done on a cruise or to get the boat someplace and were just never corrected because the "fix" worked good enough.

My boat came from the factory (I assume as it went everyplace) with wet exhaust hose as the sanitation hose. I don't think there's a "rule" that says you have to use sanitation hose other than having to replace it sooner either due to rotting or odor. Just because repairs don't meet one's expectations doesn't necessarily mean the PO was "stupid" just had different priorities.

I agree with the last two comments and I was thinking the same thing. I try to do everything to meet good yachting standards but I am sure that on thing or another someone would find issue with the way that I did it. That does not say though that there are some things listed here that make you wonder...... I have a good one.... in my major hose replacement I found. I replaced the fresh water fill hose as well as all the tank hoses because the hoses were showing there age. I was also having trouble with the water filter always filling up with a rust color. In the fill hose I found a 14 inch screw driver that was completely corroded and rusted out. I suspect a long time ago the cap came off of the keeper and they were trying to loosen the attachment point and lost the screw driver. It ran down almost to the tank. I hope this will clear our water up a little.

Greetings,
Mr. R. "Premixed" screwdriver? I wanna go on your boat.

psneeld said:

I definitely see that some stuff is just outrageous...but being in the business of repairing other people's boats...I also see a lot of things that look like they are well thought out and work fine...just not the "preferred" fix..almost as if they were done on a cruise or to get the boat someplace and were just never corrected because the "fix" worked good enough.

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Exactly and now I've got a conundrum that's not yet resolved. The day before i was heading out I dropped the gasket on my water filter overboard. It sank. Well, I made one (article here: janice142 article Water System and Filter Fix) and now I can't find the one that fits my filter I'm not going to drop $20 for a new filter housing assembly.

And yes, I should have bought a couple of spares when I bought the unit. But I didn't. So now... well, I'm a PO and unless I find a ring that fits...

On the other hand, it does work and I've got the numbers written down and periodically look online for the part. There's no need to hurry and if I were to sell the boat I could easily remove the filter from the system and "call it good" -- would pass inspection without a pre-filter no doubt. But it wouldn't be as 'good enough' as it is at present.

It's wrong for certain though. Sigh.

What really Torques my sense of humor though is a workman who comes aboard and does nothing but denigrate all the previous work done. Spade fittings versus terminal rings were a source of discussion one afternoon at a local hardware store.

The new fuse block in my cabin has spade fittings, and that meant switching over from my rings. Wrong of course -- the initial run from the breaker had a fuse inline, but I kept thinking of new things to run off that 10 gauge so did upgrade last year.

But of course the spade fittings meant all my old ends had to be replaced. And I was told that terminal rings are "bad" -- well, honestly stacking three on top of each other is not a good practice, but you know how one light leads to a fan, to a volt meter and then a better light... One-More-Thing-Itis.

Some folks have Flat-Surface-Itis where each flat surface attracts another item atop it. Well, boat projects at least for me tend to get into One-More-Thing-Itis -- it's something I have to be wary of...

My vote is always for rings , not spades as they cant shake loose.

Some terminal blocks are very narrow , designed for spades , there I simply trim the ring to the ptoper width and still have more contact area than the spade.

Single or stacked a good procedure is a star washer on top of the stack under the nut..

IF the terminal end gets warm it will expand , and then shrink back, more so if there is a stack.

The star washer puts pressure on the terminal end and assures good contact , after thousands of cycles.

Some quality mfg use lock washers on their terminal blocks , but star washers work better.

A great rainy day project as you clean the old terminal ends with a scotch brite pad .

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A great rainy day project as you clean the old terminal ends with a scotch brite pad .[/QUOTE]

I could think of whole lot of other things to do.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Trawler

psneeld said:

. Just because repairs don't meet one's expectations doesn't necessarily mean the PO was "stupid" just had different priorities.

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I think some of the things I've found could be substantiated by my PO living 5 months each year in the Abacos. The water distribution manifold aft the fresh water pump was made of 5 different material, probably cuz that's all he could find in the Island Hardware stores to fit together.

To simplify the waste system, I took 30 ft. of hose, 4 fittings, 2 Y-valves, and a dozen or so clamps out of the plumbing. As was, you had to mascerate to the pump-out (not pleasant for the pump-out man), but it would also mascerate back to the toilet, back to the tank, out the thru-hull, or even a circle and back to the mascerator. No one could ever figure out why it was plumbed that way.

Just a couple of months ago, I found a operating oil pressure gauge wrapped by a ball of electrical tape under the helm. What's with that?!

You guys sound surprised ... I see this stuff every day of the week. 90% or my survey recommendations are electrical in nature. 1 out of every 10 boats I survey have the AC ground and neutral joined (inverters/generators excepted) at the panel, 3 out of 10 boats with two shore power inlets have joined neutrals, 9 out of 10 gasoline powered boats have non-ignition protected equipment in the engine compartment, 9 out of 10 boats have batteries without fuse protection, 2 out of 10 boats have unsecured batteries, 6 out of 10 boats have AC ground and DC negative not bonded, the list goes on and on.

Yes, I started keeping stats a few years ago and am constantly amazed that more boats do not go up in flames and that more people are not electrocuted.