Boat brokers - Serious Questions

So I have been on many boat for sale boards and have email at least three brokers in the PNW regarding Trawlers that are in my price range and location.

My emails go as follows.
<300K
Galley up
Single
bla,bla bla
Purchase in late 2015.
CASH

The email lines get all lit up....

Then I tell them how tall I am and the line goes completely dead.

So I am very, very tall AND have THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS to spend in CASH on a boat tells me I should forgo my dreams and buy an RV.

To date the ONLY person who responded to me with any competent information was Mr. Diesel Duck designer.

I'm not a yacht broker but have an opinion that may help.

Find a broker that you trust, like and are willing to work with excluding all others. Get to know him/her and put them to work doing your leg work. I used to get phone calls all the time as a realtor from "cash buyers", and a few of them turned out to be real. Fact is out of 200+ of those style phone calls I "might" have one escrow close, might.

No offense but until the buyer actually shows the broker something tangible they are not likely to spend much time with you. If they do their likely desperate. In my case in real estate there where enough "qualified" serious prospects in my office to keep me from getting too excited about chasing every stray phone call or email. Nothing personal as I'm sure some of them where serious and have no doubt you are too, but many of those calls turn out to be goose chases for the broker and cost real time and money to pursue. Every hour spent working on a "suspect" is an hour not spent working with a serious "prospect" that will likely lead to a closed escrow.

Jim,
Even 1084 feet of Aircraft Carrier, regular or Nuke can't accommodate everyone.
But you "Adapt and Improvise" so please don't give up.
You just gotta find the right guy,( or Gal ) Good luck.

Crusty
PM to ya.

CPseudonym said:

I'm not a yacht broker but have an opinion that may help.

Find a broker that you trust, like and are willing to work with excluding all others. Get to know him/her and put them to work doing your leg work. I used to get phone calls all the time as a realtor from "cash buyers", and a few of them turned out to be real. Fact is out of 200+ of those style phone calls I "might" have one escrow close, might.

No offense but until the buyer actually shows the broker something tangible they are not likely to spend much time with you. If they do their likely desperate. In my case in real estate there where enough "qualified" serious prospects in my office to keep me from getting too excited about chasing every stray phone call or email. Nothing personal as I'm sure some of them where serious and have no doubt you are too, but many of those calls turn out to be goose chases for the broker and cost real time and money to pursue. Every hour spent working on a "suspect" is an hour not spent working with a serious "prospect" that will likely lead to a closed escrow.

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My issue / concern is, while I like what I read about this boat or that boat and want to visit her or research her, I may not even be in the game due to my size. To date the only boat I am able to get feedback on is the Duck boats due to the generous data provided by Mr. Duck. Everyone else is............. dial tone once I say six ten.

Most boats are built to accomodate 6'4" or so. I know when I built mine, I built it to handle 6'2". A good friend of mine is 6'4" and was perturbed by the low head room. I told him to suck it up and lean over a bit. He gets enough advantage in the world that I, at 5'9", don't need to pickle my boat design on his account.

At 6'10", you are going to either need to bend over or get a custom build. Space on a boat in any direction goes at a premium. Few boats are designed for that height. Will take some careful shopping.

CPseudonym said:

I'm not a yacht broker but have an opinion that may help.

Find a broker that you trust, like and are willing to work with excluding all others. Get to know him/her and put them to work doing your leg work. I used to get phone calls all the time as a realtor from "cash buyers", and a few of them turned out to be real. Fact is out of 200+ of those style phone calls I "might" have one escrow close, might.

No offense but until the buyer actually shows the broker something tangible they are not likely to spend much time with you. If they do their likely desperate. In my case in real estate there where enough "qualified" serious prospects in my office to keep me from getting too excited about chasing every stray phone call or email. Nothing personal as I'm sure some of them where serious and have no doubt you are too, but many of those calls turn out to be goose chases for the broker and cost real time and money to pursue. Every hour spent working on a "suspect" is an hour not spent working with a serious "prospect" that will likely lead to a closed escrow.

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Sounds fine. I will show the broker a screen shot of my brokerage account. OK, big bucks there, some will be in reserve for all the upgrade BS I see on here, plus $$ for other un forseen stuff. My budget was $500K and now is $300K or less, I hope.

BUT I am wasting everyone's time, mine, yours, the forum, the brokers if I am unable to find a boat I can walk in.

So while I like this boat and that boat, and want this and want that, until someone (a broker) gets out their tape and says, yep this boat has seven feet of head room. I am pissing in the wind.

Good night and good day.

Jim, It may be that the brokers you're emailing with look at your emails and see two things that jump out.....first is that you're not going to be a buyer until late 2015, and the second is your height. They may think you're jerking them around or are just a tire kicker (fender kicker???)

You have to understand that NOBODY that I'm aware of makes a boat that is going to accommodate your height in your price range, so why bring it up? Ask the brokers what the headroom is in a boat you're interested in and know that you're going to have to duck your head as you move around in it.

Just change your perspective and look at all boats as Sitters.

7 ft would be required to feel comfortable , so either a custom build or a compromise is required.

You fly and probably no aircraft is fun to walk in , so either tripple the budget for a custom new build , or think RV.

I don't think it's the "tall" part, I think it's the "late 2015" part. Nobody knows what boats will be for sale a year from now so it's a waste of their time to show you boats.

Wait until you are ready to buy and I think you'll get a better response.

I agree below, most brokers just want to move inventory, cultivating relationships are limited to a small number of (successful) brokers.
I would do my own research with regards to height requirements, might be worth it going for say a Grand Banks Europa and having a boat yard raise the bridge to a suitable height, obviously this will be costly but very doable.

rwidman said:

I don't think it's the "tall" part, I think it's the "late 2015" part. Nobody knows what boats will be for sale a year from now so it's a waste of their time to show you boats.

Wait until you are ready to buy and I think you'll get a better response.

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This may be a dumb idea, but could you buy a $200,000 boat now and spend the other $100,000 having the pilothouse raised between now and late 2015?

I know a guy who had a custom build; he asked for the opposite, a lower house so the boat "looked better." He had a heck of a time selling it, since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and not many beheld the same thing he did.

Anyway, if the builder can lower the house, I don't see why a competent boatyard couldn't do the opposite.

I have to assume there are boats out there with 7 ft headroom. This one is a sailboat, but if you read the write-up it has 7 ft headroom in the saloon and sleeping quarters. I was on one of these boats a few years ago (when we still had our sailboat) and really liked the layout.

Practical Sailor new boat review: Hunter 45DS - Practical Sailor Article

Lots of ex-workboats have higher headroom. You might try a different market.

I agree with the poster that you should walk into a brokerage and meet "one of them" [8^)] and form a relationship. Like all sales people, many are yahoos and many are people you would have lunch with. That broker will then work for you and provide appropriate boats for you to see. I also agree that a long buying target will be off-putting to a broker so either don't mention it or be flexible (sorry).

As I don't know where you are, I totally recommend Bruce White at Grand Yachts in Vancouver. He worked tirelessly for me both with the sale of my previous and the acquisition of the latest.

Plus there's about an 8% exchange benefit for US money up here.

I'd contact a broker in Scandinavia. They have tall people. I used to race a Swan, it had great headroom.

Brokers qualify customers. Let's see what they heard on the phone. I'm 6-10 and if you work your butt off for a year and a half and find the impossible, then I might just buy something. I feel for you but I know this isn't the first time your height has been a problem. Simple things like light fixtures, doorways. I'm 5-6" shorter and I've had problems.

Boat height measurements are also very difficult to get a handle on. Are we talking hallway or lowest height or where becomes the question. One builder will quote their height from the hallway and have less headroom in the staterooms and elsewhere. Another will quote their minimum head room and exceed it throughout.

What type boat are you looking for? What size? What experience do you have? What will be your normal use? First, generally you'll find the greater the length, the greater the height. As to new, your budget isn't likely going to get you what you want so probably going to have to be used. As said above you need to establish a relationship with a broker as your buyer's broker, and convince them there is reason to work with you, that if someone suddenly puts something in front of you, they aren't going to walk away with nothing. And that far in advance, why should they work so hard now? If it's a great boat, then what are the odds it will be available then? And if you're just wanting ideas as to what might be, then that doesn't pay them.

My first suggestion would be to get off the email method. At the very least go to the phone and personally I would make an appointment and visit and talk to one who came with good recommendation. Email doesn't show much effort and gets returned in kind. You go to trouble to meet and convince them you're serious and they'll want to try to help you. Easy to reject a number, which is all you are so far. Easy to want to help a person, which is what you need to become in their eyes.

Bunk length would be important too I would imagine.

Northern Spy said:

Bunk length would be important too I would imagine.

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Good point. You're taller than an Eastern king size bed is long. You barely fit in a California King which I haven't seen in a boat.

Headroom is not one of the normally mentioned specifications in boats on Yachtworld although a few of the mainstream sailboat companies such as Hunter and Beneteau make it a point to pitch their headroom. I am also very tall at 6'5" and found decent head room in our 38' Fu Hwa but just barely. I can tolerate a centerline queen bed as long as there is no obstruction or high foot board on the bed. The more critical issue is headroom in the engine room where I am almost incapable of doing most maintenance tasks without wearing a football helmet. With your budget, you should be able to find something much more accommodating than I did but you will not find a standup ER. My suggestion would be to use boat shows as a starting point to view what might be available and meet brokers. The headroom in a new Nordhaven is unlikely to be much different from older models of similar lengths and the same with other brands.

As other posters have indicated, if you don't plan to buy for 15 plus months, it will be difficult to get any commissioned sales persons attention. Going the boat show route might be your best bet.

A broker may work 10-20 hours finding just the right make and style boat for you , with no guarentee you will use him to buy the boat.

Offer to HIRE him as a purchasing agent (so he gets a cut) .

I would think that the salon and pilot areas would carry the most attention to height room. Didn't think about the bed/bunk space though. Good call. The Wellcraft I had eons ago had a rather large V berth which might be long enough, but the headroom sucked even for me @ 5-9. The engine space is not as important in my mind as that's not where anyone spends most of their time (I hope at least).

As mentioned, go to boat shows. They're fun, you get to see lots and lots of models (new of course), and meet lots of brokers, dealers and maybe a builder or two. Then you can figure out what's important to you in a boat while eliminating certain brands or styles.

If I were a broker I wouldn't spend my valuable time with you. Buying in late 2015? That's a year from now! I could find the perfect boat for you this month, and while we wait for eleven months someone else buys it and I am SOL.

Put a nicer way, you should do your own homework and find the make and style of boat that works for you. Cruise yachtworld. Go boating with friends. Walk the docks. If you are really serious about having a broker do your homework, give a good broker five grand, non-refundable, and have him hunt for you. If you won't do that then you are wasting everyone's time.

Robster_in_edmonds said:

Put a nicer way, you should do your own homework and find the make and style of boat that works for you. Cruise yachtworld. Go boating with friends. Walk the docks.

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Well put. A little bit of real effort seems a modest suggestion.

I think that Hatteras 48/58/65LRC's have enough head room. Large heads as well.

I had trouble finding brokers who would take me seriously. I wanted a rare antique vessel, plus I'm a woman. I'd usually get interest via email when I inquired, but once they spoke to me, everything went quiet. Even when I showed up to look at a boat, they'd pepper me with questions and actually tried to talk me out of buying an antique. Granted, wooden boats are cheaper than the boats you are looking at, but still -- most of these brokers only dealt with woodies, so it made no sense to me. I couldn't help but to think that I was negatively judged.

But I never gave up and you shouldn't either. My first broker only showed me his listings, so I left him. The other broker spent all of his time telling me I'm making a huge mistake in buying a wooden boat...

After that, I just found boats on line (through Yachtworld, etc.), and then I'd schedule an appointment with the seller's broker. Since they already had a vested interest in selling the boat, they were willing to show me the boat even though I didn't have a broker representing me. It worked out for me that way.

What's cool about doing it this way is that (a) you get to see a lot of boats, which in turn will show you what you DON'T want, and (b) when you do find the boat (it took me over a year to find her), you'll know -- and then in my case, I just used the seller's broker but hired a full survey and got advice from the surveyor on what I should offer vs. asking price.

It's not the best situation, but it keeps you looking at boats.

Go to boat shows, too -- that's a good way to see a lot of boats in person, and again, part of the process is finding the boat style that suits you. I originally thought I wanted a 40' boat, but after seeing them in person, I kept getting smaller and smaller...my boat I got is only 27' and yet she's the perfect pocket cruiser for me. But it was that determination and all the leg work I put into looking at boats through on-line sites that helped me find her. You'll find your boat, too.

Robster_in_edmonds said:

If I were a broker I wouldn't spend my valuable time with you. Buying in late 2015? That's a year from now! I could find the perfect boat for you this month, and while we wait for eleven months someone else buys it and I am SOL.

Put a nicer way, you should do your own homework and find the make and style of boat that works for you. Cruise yachtworld. Go boating with friends. Walk the docks. If you are really serious about having a broker do your homework, give a good broker five grand, non-refundable, and have him hunt for you. If you won't do that then you are wasting everyone's time.

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Well said. And on the topic of wasting TIME, and a brokers gas too! IF you have a health issue such as bad knee's- don't go wasting time looking at boats counting steps with the hope of finding a boat that has none. ALL boats with exception of pontoon boats (and you still have to get on and off them too!) have them. And it's a total no brainer- FOR PILOTHOUSE designed boats. You can see steps in the photos, so unless you can levitate..... Then after finding your dream boat (the ONLY late model one on the entire east coast) you want to buy- saying "well, if my knee's get better in the next 60 day's- I'm gonna buy this one". A. It will be sold in 60 days, so why the hurry to see it now?! B. Unless you get knee replacements- they aren't going to heal themselves.

Damn, I miss my 'Down Under' clients!!!! who just say "no worries mate", and buy, so damn the US dollar for being so strong now. Yes- this was a rant.

pilothouse king said:

Damn, I miss my 'Down Under' clients!!!! who just say "no worries mate", and buy, so damn the US dollar for being so strong now. Yes- this was a rant.

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Ah yes, the $. Its down over 20% and still sinking. It was a once in a generation period for us to buy as it was coupled with the US market being weak. For lots of us who knew it, and knew it wouldn't last, the imperative was to move fairly quickly. Don't hold your breath for those conditions to return anytime soon.

At 6'1" I'm not that tall, and now generally get through the the two problematic doorways I have on board ok, if in bare feet which I normally am. But if wearing shoes I still often hit my head. Obviously I have subconsciously adjusted to clearing the doorway, but with not much room to spare. You can get used to it. Otherwise you fix it.

For BigJim I think raising the roof will be the answer, or an old workboat conversion. But its still worth wearing out some shoe leather getting on board as many possibilities as you can so that when the time comes to do the GA for the conversion you get it mostly right first time.