How Many Ford Lehmans are there?

I continue to be flabbergasted as to the number of Lehman posts there are on this site! Most of the boats I have owned have been newer and I've had DDECS, Perkins, Cats, Cummins and several gas engines. I don't even know anyone who has a Lehman other than guys on this site! They must be one hell of an engine or "God wouldn't have made so many of them."

-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Thursday 16th of September 2010 11:01:04 AM

There are thousands. ADC has built a business supporting them.
Old design, LOTS of iron for the ponies, but they manage to keep on tickin'.

A sailboating buddy of mine began explain displacement type hulls and "Lehman Engines" a few years back. When our Bayliner sank I knew what I wanted.

We have 2

Bob Smith (ADC and Lehman VP) said at this week's MTOA rendezvous that they sold 30,000 of them!!!

Jim
@Home

Two Super 90's here.

SeaHorse II wrote:

I don't even know anyone who has a Lehman other than guys on this site!*

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There are tons of them in boats in our marina.* They are found in lower-speed boats typically up to perhaps 40-45 feet in length.

The term "Lehman engine" is a bit misleading because Lehman Bros. marinized a number of types of engines while they were in business.* The oldest ones are the FL120 and its two derivatives, the FL80 (or 90) and the FL120 Turbocharged engine.* The FL120 operators manual covers all three.* The base six and four cylinder engines were designed by Ford of England in the 1950s, and Lehman's marinized version was used in production boats from the 1960s through the 1970s or so.

The next Lehman engine was the FL135.* These used a different base engine than the FL120 although it was a Ford of England engine as well.* The FL135 was used through the 1980s IIRC.

The FL120 and FL135 are the two "main" Lehman engines but they marinzed a number of other engines as well including some fairly powerful turbocharged ones.

The base engine for the FL120, the Ford Dorset engine, was orignally designed to be a truck engine.* In this application it was a total failure for several reasons.* But the same attributes that doomed it to failure as a truck engine made it ideal as a stationary industrial engine (cranes, generators, pumps, etc) and as a lower-speed, lower-load engine for things like tractors and harvesters.* And it was these attributes that made it an excellent candidate for a slow-boat marine engine.* For many decades all of Ford's diesel engines for trucks and tractors were made by Ford of England, even the engines going into equipment Ford was making in the USA.* This is why it's possible to find the FL120 base engine in old tractors and such in this country.

Lehman Bros. was not the only company marinizing Ford of England diesels.* A number of marinizing kits were designed by firms in the UK and elsewhere and there are Ford of England Dorset engines (base engine for the FL120) and Dover engines (base engine for the FL135) in boats all over the world but under different names because they were marinzed by other companies.



*


-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 18th of September 2010 10:21:55 PM

Thanks Marin, that's an informative peice about the Lehman engines. We have had 3 Ford Lehman 120hp in the last 10 years, and managed to break 2 of them, not the fault of the engines though.THey look great painted fire engine red.

Trivia for the day----- The Lehman engines marinized by Lehman themselves were always (I assume always) painted red.* However in the early 1970s American Marine, the manufacturer of the Grand Banks line of boats, decided that they could save money by purchasing the base engines directly from Ford of England and the marinization kits from Lehman Bros. and then marinize the engines on the shop floor in Singapore*next to the boats they were going into.

They did this for several years until they realized that this was actually a false economy so they went back to purchasing already-marinized engines from Lehman. American Marine painted the engines they marinized in Singapore either olive green or gold. Our '73 boat has engines that were*olive green until a*previous owner painted them Alpine Green aka Detroit Green which I like better than the olive.* But an olive engine can be pretty good looking when the paint's in good shape.

The four-cylinder 80 hp*Ford Lehman engine below is in a GB32 belonging to Stanley Cochran of the GB Owners forum.





-- Edited by Marin on Friday 8th of October 2010 08:11:33 PM

Clean!
Nutherbit of info- Brian Smith tells me 1983 was the first year for the FL135. You can always tell this engine by the chrome valve cover and air filter housing.

"I don't even know anyone who has a Lehman other than guys on this site"

Many of the good folks on this site have older TT.

The Ford Econo Power was the lowest cost engine back in the TT days.

For folks that need a 2 -4 GPH engine there GREAT !

Rated power , hours on end , the commercial engine marinizations work (Detroit, Cummins ((some)) and CAT again ((some)) , the tractor transplants wont.

But chugging at 40 hp , not a lot of engines will match the service life of these engines.

THey also suffer less from long layups out of service less than the industrial units.

Marin wrote:

*
SeaHorse II wrote:

I don't even know anyone who has a Lehman other than guys on this site!*

Click to expand...

There are tons of them in boats in our marina.* They are found in lower-speed boats typically up to perhaps 40-45 feet in length.

The term "Lehman engine" is a bit misleading because Lehman Bros. marinized a number of types of engines while they were in business.* The oldest ones are the FL120 and its two derivatives, the FL80 (or 90) and the FL120 Turbocharged engine.* The FL120 operators manual covers all three.* The base six and four cylinder engines were designed by Ford of England in the 1950s, and Lehman's marinized version was used in production boats from the 1960s through the 1970s or so.

The next Lehman engine was the FL135.* These used a different base engine than the FL120 although it was a Ford of England engine as well.* The FL135 was used through the 1980s IIRC.

The FL120 and FL135 are the two "main" Lehman engines but they marinzed a number of other engines as well including some fairly powerful turbocharged ones.

The base engine for the FL120, the Ford Dorset engine, was orignally designed to be a truck engine.* In this application it was a total failure for several reasons.* But the same attributes that doomed it to failure as a truck engine made it ideal as a stationary industrial engine (cranes, generators, pumps, etc) and as a lower-speed, lower-load engine for things like tractors and harvesters.* And it was these attributes that made it an excellent candidate for a slow-boat marine engine.* For many decades all of Ford's diesel engines for trucks and tractors were made by Ford of England, even the engines going into equipment Ford was making in the USA.* This is why it's possible to find the FL120 base engine in old tractors and such in this country.

Lehman Bros. was not the only company marinizing Ford of England diesels.* A number of marinizing kits were designed by firms in the UK and elsewhere and there are Ford of England Dorset engines (base engine for the FL120) and Dover engines (base engine for the FL135) in boats all over the world but under different names because they were marinzed by other companies.

-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 18th of September 2010 10:21:55 PMCarey wrote:

And then there was the Ford Merlin. Also a British Ford truck/tractor engine marinized by Merlin of Florida. They made a straight six, typically producing 250-800 horse. Not a great engine.


-- Edited by Carey on Saturday 9th of October 2010 09:15:56 PM

I've got a 1983 FL120 in our boat. Prior boat had a FL90 in it.

Daddyo wrote:

I've got a 1983 FL120 in our boat. Prior boat had a FL90 in it.

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Dang, that's one clean ER!

When I was shopping for trawlers, in the three years prior to 2007, I concluded that I specifically wanted a Lehman engine as my first choice. I was willing to purchase a boat with another engine, if it was the right boat, but my first preference was Lehman.

Ended up with a 1982 Defever 41 with about 6000 hrs on it when we purchased it in Jun 2007. Its been a good engine, and support from Bob Smith and his son Brian at ADC has been excellent. I doubt I could get to talk to/consult with the top mechanic in the world on any other engine type.

At our MTOA rendezvous, Bob Smith always attends and always holds a 2 hr engine seminar. I learn from each one.

I took Bob's engine class at Trawlerfest in Solomons in 2007.
[url]http://tinyurl.com/238o2x2[/url]
The only negative comment I have about the class is the exhorbitant price I had to pay Trawlerfest to attend. $400 for two days. That said, I could not place a value on being able to learn this engine from the real expert.

Daddyo - Your engine looks so good. Looks like you dont have any oil leaks!
R.

Has anyone ever heard of a diesel class geared towards the Perkins 6.534 engine instead of the Lehman? Our Monk has a Perkins and I have a lot to learn about the old girl! How applicable would it be to take the Lehman class and apply it to my Perkins?

I took the Diesel class at the Annapolis School of Seamanship. It was diesel, not Lehman oriented.* The practice engine may even have been a Perkins, I don't recall. But I'm 99% sure it wasn't a Lehman.

I've kept enough POS cars running in my day so I'm not intimidated by the need to spin a wrench and bust a few knuckles.* But I had never touched a diesel before. This class was an enormous confidence booster and did give me a couple of well needed "show me" tips.

http://www.annapolisschoolofseamanship.com/

On a previous boat I had an english Sabre 120. It's the same 380 cu in in=line six that the Lehman used. It was a very low time engine. It started promptly and ran very smoothly. According to the PO it was a "blueprinted" engine. Manufactured twice * * ...the second time to much higher tolerances. I hated to give up that boat and the engine was a big part of it.Marin * *....That guy's green engine is beautiful!

My '73 MT has the 120 Lehman, about 4,000 hours, pretty much in "original" cosmetic condition, meaning a whole lot of dirt, oil etc on it. Is there an effective method of cleaning/degreasing/repainting without pulling the entire engine or filling up the bilge section with a nasty mess? *Daddyo's looks like you could eat off of it.

-- Edited by ARoss on Thursday 14th of October 2010 06:06:13 AM

I too will be interested in answers to this question ARoss, I thought my boat was about the oldest on the site @ 1975, but yours pips me by two yrs, but your description sounds like you been lookin' in my engine room.

Hiya,
** Well, there's always the "Make a mess in the bilge and vacuum it up" solution but I see where you're coming from regarding THAT.
***A small paint brush dipped in cheap solvent (paint thinner for eg.) and elbow grease does wonders.* Put some diapers (the engine kind-not huggies) underneath to catch the drips.
*** I have used brake cleaner with*rags/paper towels and*various brushes to finish up.* Make sure you have LOTS of ventilation when using the brake cleaner!!!!
** And of course wear safety glasses

RT Firefly wrote:

Make sure you have LOTS of ventilation when using the brake cleaner!!!!
**

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Sounds like a tossup whether you die*in the explosion and fire*or from*liver failure later on.* *

Hiya,
** Good points Rick B.* Disregard my post.* Be safe!

Just had a nice hour long chat with the man himself Bob Smith at the Annapolis show. As always a great guy to talk with. He never wants to stop learning about these engines. To touch on one of the subjects brought up here before by yours truly, he doesn't have any problem with someone running synthetic single weight oil or synthetic ATF. He doesn't see any big gain in his mind for the extra cost however. He insists that the over-sized prop is not the way to go and the engine should be cruised at 1700-1750 rpm for max torque and efficiency. At 2500 hours you really need to check your drive dampener. One trick way to do it is to replace two opposing bolts with longer ones so you can slide the tranny back to inspect the dampener. He's a big fan of the coolant recover kit and the larger tranny and oil cooler lines kit.

Good info Daddyo, on our trawler 1700-1750 just "feels right".

Forklift, Daddyo,Just feels right is probably just like "sweet spot" and has nothing to do with what's good for the engine but what speed is the smoothest.

ARoss wrote:

My '73 MT has the 120 Lehman, about 4,000 hours, pretty much in "original" cosmetic condition, meaning a whole lot of dirt, oil etc on it. Is there an effective method of cleaning/degreasing/repainting without pulling the entire engine or filling up the bilge section with a nasty mess? *Daddyo's looks like you could eat off of it.

-- Edited by ARoss on Thursday 14th of October 2010 06:06:13 AM

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I just went through my notes from the Bob Smith engine class. He told us then to use mineral spirits to clean the outside of the engine.
R,

*

I've been running my Lehman 120 at 1800 rpm. At every fill up, I calculate the fuel consumption per hour. I am getting 2.5 galls/hr and that runs the boat at 7kts (clean bottom).
R.

I run at 1700/1800 and get about 6.5 kts. I think I am just under 2 gph near as I can figure and that includes some lightly loaded gen time.

ralphyost,Your'e probably burning 3 or maybe even 3.5 gph as there is a lot of engine time on the meter that is not run at cruise throttle * * ....warming up, no wake zones, rough water, fog and many other lower throttle situations that render that method very inaccurate.

Willy
Yeah I am probably getting somewhat higher than my calc. especially because I neglected to mention that my genset pulls diesel from it also. I dont bother seperating genset fuel consumption since this summer only used genset for 40 hours or so. Its negligible.

However, I can tell you that the Lehman 120 uses VERY LITTLE fuel at idle speeds.* You can prove it by starting cold then running at idle only and watching the temp gauge. It will hardly warm up at low idle, even at 1000 rpms. Takes forever.
Thats because there is not enough fuel burn in the cylinders to generate the heat required to get the engine up to operating temps.

Bob Smith advocates start up, throw off the lines and leave the dock. Do not wait for warm up. Run at 1500 or so until you see the temp start coming up then move on up to 1800 RMP.

So the actual fuel burn is an actual estimate.

R.