Hot water heater leaks

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Takeitesea

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
28
Location
USA
Hi, my hot water heater is leaking engine coolant.
The leak is inside the box not the hoses connected to the engine.
It is a Seaward S1200 model. Is there apart that can be replaced or must I buy an entire unit?
Thanks,
Don
Take It E-Sea
Monk 36
#240
 
Greetings,
Mr. T. I suggest you replace the engine coolant with rum.
 
Last edited:
Replace it and the coolant, also flush the fresh water system out, coolant can be deadly.
 
Thanks guys,

I had a feeling I would have to replace the heater and then have some rum!!
Don
Take It E-Sea
 
Hi, my hot water heater is leaking engine coolant.
The leak is inside the box not the hoses connected to the engine.
It is a Seaward S1200 model. Is there apart that can be replaced or must I buy an entire unit?
Thanks,
Don
Take It E-Sea
Monk 36
#240
Don, when you reinstall, consider putting in a small expansion tank on both the engine loop that contains coolant and also on the cold water side of the fresh water supply if they aren't already there. Tanks can also fall apart because of corrosion, especially with ship's ground and shore ground differentials, so one other thing you also can do is to install a dual pole switch to disconnect both the hot and the neutral when not in use. You can do this through a simple two pole relay for about $30.

I just had to replace my (expensive) Solaris water heater after six years. It was installed without an expansion tank, and while the pressure relief valve should have handled the heat expansion of the water as it heats, something went wrong and it started to leak. Hence, my advice to install the expansion tanks.
 
I like rum but would not use it as engine coolant. It tends to gum things up when heated. Same with most types of whisky, canadian especially. Vodca might be ok or everclear. When the leak gets big enough you may have problems getting out of the shower.
 
Have you ever used one of those coolant flushing solutions in your engine to clean the gunk out of the coolers?
 
Don, when you reinstall, consider putting in a small expansion tank on both the engine loop that contains coolant .

What is your reasoning behind this expansion tank? What is typical coolant pressure?
 
Don, when you reinstall, consider putting in a small expansion tank on both the engine loop that contains coolant and also on the cold water side of the fresh water supply

I'm curious about the expansion tank on the coolant loop. Don't most marine engines have a fairly large expansion tank built in? I know the Lugger 1066 in my boat has a big one that should always have an air gap in the top (your finger should just be able to touch the coolant).

I recently had to replace my hot water heater for the opposite problem that Don had. I was getting fresh water from the heater into the coolant loop of the engine (so I found coolant all over the floor of the engine room).

In my case it was really caused by too much city water pressure being applied to the fresh water system by the PO. :facepalm:
 
What is your reasoning behind this expansion tank? What is typical coolant pressure?
It's pretty low, and you can certainly argue that the coolant tank and pressure relief cap will handle expansion, but only if there is a direct flow of engine coolant through the water heater. If an exchanger is used to transfer coolant temperature to a coolant loop through the water heater, without an expansion tank all the expansion will go to the loops which can cause premature failure. If an engine mounted exchanger is used, the expansion tank should be considered essential, IMO. If not, the tank is simply a cheap $65 backup, so why not?

Personally, I don't much care for extending the engine coolant loop directly through the water heater, since overheating on most diesels (especially my CAT) is pretty destructive and you expose yourself to coolant loss due to an unrelated failure inside the water heater, as the OP experienced.
 
I'm curious about the expansion tank on the coolant loop. Don't most marine engines have a fairly large expansion tank built in? I know the Lugger 1066 in my boat has a big one that should always have an air gap in the top (your finger should just be able to touch the coolant).

I recently had to replace my hot water heater for the opposite problem that Don had. I was getting fresh water from the heater into the coolant loop of the engine (so I found coolant all over the floor of the engine room).

In my case it was really caused by too much city water pressure being applied to the fresh water system by the PO. :facepalm:
Does the coolant in the engine flow through a heat exchanger that transfers heat to a separate loop through the water heater? If so, you have no expansion tank on the system and might want to think about installing one. With the problem you experienced, it sounds like a hole in the coolant loop through the heater forced fresh water directly into the coolant of the engine, which would suggest you don't have an engine mounted exchanger, so other than exposure to a water tank failure causing engine overheating, you're correct, the coolant tank on the engine probably is sufficient.
 
It's pretty low, and you can certainly argue that the coolant tank and pressure relief cap will handle expansion, but only if there is a direct flow of engine coolant through the water heater. If an exchanger is used to transfer coolant temperature to a coolant loop through the water heater, without an expansion tank all the expansion will go to the loops which can cause premature failure. If an engine mounted exchanger is used, the expansion tank should be considered essential, IMO. If not, the tank is simply a cheap $65 backup, so why not?

Personally, I don't much care for extending the engine coolant loop directly through the water heater, since overheating on most diesels (especially my CAT) is pretty destructive and you expose yourself to coolant loss due to an unrelated failure inside the water heater, as the OP experienced.

So let me get this straight. You have a heat exchanger on your engine that transfers heat from your engine coolant to another coolant loop that runs through the heat exchanger on your water heater. Am I understanding this correctly?
 
So let me get this straight. You have a heat exchanger on your engine that transfers heat from your engine coolant to another coolant loop that runs through the heat exchanger on your water heater. Am I understanding this correctly?

Thus is my plan as well. I have a plate heat exchanger in my shed for this reason.

VP recommends adding an expansion tank in the coolant system if a parasitical heating load is placed upon the system. It adds volume to a system that was designed with only the engine cooling requirements.
 
So let me get this straight. You have a heat exchanger on your engine that transfers heat from your engine coolant to another coolant loop that runs through the heat exchanger on your water heater. Am I understanding this correctly?
Well, yes. Like this one: SK UNI302631CN Heat Exchanger Universal / Medalist by Seakamp Engineering

As I said, if you are comfortable having a failure in your$500 hot water tank affect the cooling and longevity of your $40,000 diesel, have at it.

Got it straight yet?
 
Thus is my plan as well. I have a plate heat exchanger in my shed for this reason.

VP recommends adding an expansion tank in the coolant system if a parasitical heating load is placed upon the system. It adds volume to a system that was designed with only the engine cooling requirements.
Bingo.
 
I have not seen that. On all the water heaters I've worked on or replaced, if they had a provision for engine coolant heat transfer it was a simple loop thru the water heater. Another loop would require a pump to move the fluid thru the heater and another expansion tank. No need for a seperate expansion tank on the engine side. An expansion tank is a good idea on the house water side. The biggest problem with these type of water heaters is excess heat from the engine. 190 is a bit hot, you need to be carefull when you turn the water on in the shower. Maybe the double exchanger is required for trawling recreationally. I dont know but the next time I stay at a Holiday Inn Express I will find out.
 
After a few moments of thought, the use of another heat exchanger and a small thermostatically controlled pump could aleviate the dangerously high water temps caused by the engine coolant. Seams to be complicating an otherwise simple system, but I can see the benifits. I would think that a mechanical thermostat similar to the one in your engine, controlled by water heater temp would be simpler. I have not seen any engine failures due to a faulty water heater, but it "could" happen. I also have never been hit by a meteor, but it could happen. What I wont do is lose any sleep or spend any time or money trying to avoid meteors.
 
I have not seen that. On all the water heaters I've worked on or replaced, if they had a provision for engine coolant heat transfer it was a simple loop thru the water heater. Another loop would require a pump to move the fluid thru the heater and another expansion tank. No need for a seperate expansion tank on the engine side. An expansion tank is a good idea on the house water side. The biggest problem with these type of water heaters is excess heat from the engine. 190 is a bit hot, you need to be carefull when you turn the water on in the shower. Maybe the double exchanger is required for trawling recreationally. I dont know but the next time I stay at a Holiday Inn Express I will find out.
A separate pump isn't really needed, as convection does fine. In fact, in the 40 odd acres of greenhouse I built and operated, the hydronic systems we installed needed electric shut off valves to interrupt the convection, otherwise you were always circulating hot water from the boiler. Most water tanks come with a mixing valve option - the Isotemp I just installed had one, as did the Solaris it replaced, so too much heat isn't really a problem.

I think the main argument for not simply extending the engine coolant directly through the hot water tank is introducing another failure point for an engine critical system.
 
....... On all the water heaters I've worked on or replaced, if they had a provision for engine coolant heat transfer it was a simple loop thru the water heater. ............

There are thousands of boats out there with this same installation. I would think that if this was a bad plan, manufacturers would stop making these water heaters and/or installing them.
 
After a few moments of thought, the use of another heat exchanger and a small thermostatically controlled pump could aleviate the dangerously high water temps caused by the engine coolant. Seams to be complicating an otherwise simple system, but I can see the benifits. .....

You can install a tempering valve that mixes the high temperature of the hot water with unheated water to produce a safe temperature. Having very hot water isn't all bad, it effectively increases the amount of hot water available for use.
 
Well, yes. Like this one: SK UNI302631CN Heat Exchanger Universal / Medalist by Seakamp Engineering

As I said, if you are comfortable having a failure in your$500 hot water tank affect the cooling and longevity of your $40,000 diesel, have at it.

Got it straight yet?

I got it. So what kind of pump do you have connected to the water heater loop and how is it controlled?
Also, on my boat I have an additional loop that goes to a fan convector heater. I would guess that this is also a weak point in the cooling system and could also run off that additional heat exchanger. With my limited knowledge of marine engines/systems, I have certainly noted that the hot water loop is a weak point in the cooling system. I was thinking about adding ball valves to that loop at the engine, just in case....
I dont even know where that additional heat exchanger could mount on my 6bta, but I will put some thought into it.

I have also heard of HTP superstor water heaters being used in marine applications as well- and I have never heard of a failure in the heat exchanger in that unit- at least commercially of residentially.
 
I think the main argument for not simply extending the engine coolant directly through the hot water tank is introducing another failure point for an engine critical system.

Technically, adding the other seakamp heat exchanger "is introducing another failure point for an engine critical system", but I do agree that is is more reliable and less prone to failure than a water heater.
 
I have not seen any engine failures due to a faulty water heater, but it "could" happen. I also have never been hit by a meteor, but it could happen. What I wont do is lose any sleep or spend any time or money trying to avoid meteors.

I get it.

Understand it is a personality defect for me. I am an ex-submariner and an industrial maintenance engineer, so I tend to over think and over engineer most of my own stuff. Tinkering and (ideally) improving mechanical things is fun for me.
 
I got it. So what kind of pump do you have connected to the water heater loop and how is it controlled?
Also, on my boat I have an additional loop that goes to a fan convector heater. I would guess that this is also a weak point in the cooling system and could also run off that additional heat exchanger. With my limited knowledge of marine engines/systems, I have certainly noted that the hot water loop is a weak point in the cooling system. I was thinking about adding ball valves to that loop at the engine, just in case....
I dont even know where that additional heat exchanger could mount on my 6bta, but I will put some thought into it.

I have also heard of HTP superstor water heaters being used in marine applications as well- and I have never heard of a failure in the heat exchanger in that unit- at least commercially of residentially.
As noted, I don't think you need a pump. The water will move through the loop from convection, if slowly, but that doesn't matter since you're just transferring engine heat to the fresh water in the tank. The isolation ball valves are a good idea, methinks...

I'll try to get pictures of ours and post it. Mine is just mounted next to the engine, within its footprint, so it doesn't take up much room.
 
Technically, adding the other seakamp heat exchanger "is introducing another failure point for an engine critical system", but I do agree that is is more reliable and less prone to failure than a water heater.
You're right, there is the 2' of hose from the engine to one side of the exchanger and its return, and those could fail. However, it is visible in the ER, which the hoses in my system that run from the heat exchanger to the hot water tank most certainly are not. But that is my system. If everything is in the ER and you use good quality hose no problem. However that still doesn't tell you what's going on where you can't see it, like the exchanger loop inside the water heater. These fail as well, so all in all, I prefer isolation, and if isolated, you need an expansion tank.
 
Isolation ball valves are a good idea. Just be sure it is in a parallel circuit, otherwise you will need a bypass valve too. Believe it or not, the "carolifier" inlet and outlet on my engine feeds the turbo housing.
 
You're right, there is the 2' of hose from the engine to one side of the exchanger and its return, and those could fail. However, it is visible in the ER, which the hoses in my system that run from the heat exchanger to the hot water tank most certainly are not. But that is my system. If everything is in the ER and you use good quality hose no problem. However that still doesn't tell you what's going on where you can't see it, like the exchanger loop inside the water heater. These fail as well, so all in all, I prefer isolation, and if isolated, you need an expansion tank.

So what you're doing is using a heat exchanger to heat water that is then sent to another heat exchanger (in the water heater) to heat potable water?
 
Isolation ball valves are a good idea. Just be sure it is in a parallel circuit, otherwise you will need a bypass valve too. Believe it or not, the "carolifier" inlet and outlet on my engine feeds the turbo housing.
Or, you use the all purpose Vise Grip tool for emergency valving on rubber hose. Been there, done that.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom